Can I ask why no drug discussion?

[slugcountry]

Not trying to stir things up, just wondering why it is against the rules in this forum that I thought promoted free intellectual discussion =) feel free to pm and delete the thread if you must I just didn't know who to ask really so I'm posting the question here.

 

[moe darklight]

I was just about to ask the same thing. isn't drugs an important issue (social, psychological, and from many other points of view related to this forum)?

also, I went to sleep and am really interested in reading what people had to say while I was gone :)

 

[Evo]

Not trying to stir things up, just wondering why it is against the rules in this forum that I thought promoted free intellectual discussion =) feel free to pm and delete the thread if you must I just didn't know who to ask really so I'm posting the question here.

The main reason why we don't discuss taking illegal drugs here should be obvious - it's illegal.

Second reason is because it is impossible to have a rational discussion. We have had threads discussing them before, they get out of line almost immediately and end up being locked or deleted.

If you do illegal drugs and you feel a need to tell people about it, there are many places on the internet where you can do that.

 

[slugcountry]

Evo you're right there ARE lots of places to talk about this sort of thing with people, but the people that frequent these forums are - well let's say I have a greater respect for the people here than most places on the net so I'm interested in what people here think.

As for being illegal... last time I checked, discussion of illegal drugs was not in itself illegal =(

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

As for being illegal... last time I checked, discussion of illegal drugs was not in itself illegal =(

Entirely depends on the context of the discussion. If we are talking about growing techniques or "how to setup a meth lab"... well take a guess :) but if the discussion is philisophical or sociological or purely science related then I don't see a problem.

 

[moe darklight]

I don't know if things got out of line after I left, but up to that point the conversation seemed pretty tame to me.

how is it impossible to have a rational conversation about drugs? I think I was doing a pretty good job; I kept away from unfounded personal opinions, and presented evidence to support my point (I could have presented more evidence... but this is a forum after all, no one wants to read a post 30 pages long).

and how is their illegality an issue when what we were discussing IS their illegality (and what effect would legalizing them have).

since when does the scientific method care about what is legal and what is not legal, what is socially acceptable and what is not socially acceptable (as a topic of discussion and speculation, not saying you should be going around killing people in the name of science)?
if scientists cared about what was socially acceptable at their time, you'd still be learning in university about a flat Earth around which the sun orbits in a perfectly circular motion (because the heavens are perfect after all, the bible says so), about how a creator made you out of clay, how different magical humors with different colors predict your emotions. you'd still be discussing whether the savages from the americas are to be considered human beings or animals, etc.

I wasn't spreading pro-drug stoner propaganda, my topic wasn't titled "smoke weed every day!" I talked about both the pros and cons of drug use, and discussed my views using rational arguments (and so did everyone else, without resorting to insult).

sorry, but I don't find it inappropriate to discuss whether some social views about drugs are outdated, unfounded, and just plain wrong. or whether the way the issue is approached is wrong. or maybe we should just pretend the problem doesn't exist? maybe Galileo should have never looked through that telescope. after all, didn't society and the church already agree that the heavens were perfect and godly?

 

[Evo]

Entirely depends on the context of the discussion. If we are talking about growing techniques or "how to setup a meth lab"... well take a guess :) but if the discussion is philisophical or sociological or purely science related then I don't see a problem.

Exactly. A discussion of the impact of illegal drug use on society is fine, posts saying things like "all drugs should be legalized so I can get stoned without being hassled" is not. Unfortunately not everyone uses common sense.

 

[moe darklight]

Exactly. A discussion of the impact of illegal drug use on society is fine, posts saying things like "all drugs should be legalized so I can get stoned without being hassled" is not. Unfortunately not everyone uses common sense.

you are changing my words and taking what I said completely out of context (if you are referring to my comment that is... if this is something someone else said once I left I apologize).

what I said was a small point, and only a part of my argument, and it referred to responsible drug use. is it out of line to suggest that there is such thing as responsible drug use?

 

[Evo]

you are changing my words and taking what I said completely out of context (if you are referring to my comment that is... if this is something someone else said once I left I apologize).

what I said was a small point, and only a part of my argument, and it referred to responsible drug use. is it out of line to suggest that there is such thing as responsible drug use?

I haven't had time to read through much of what you posted. It was deleted before I got here today.

 

[russ_watters]

It shouldn't be difficult to see the logical difference between discussing a hypothetical and discussing actually doing it. In another thread, we were talking hypothetically about pushing someone in front of a train to save other people who were about to be hit. No one here has actually done that. Another common moral dilema is whether or not it is ok to rob a bank to get money to feed your family. It shouldn't be too difficult to see the difference between that and 'I just robbed a bank' or 'I'm robbing a bank right now' or 'tomorrow, I'm going to rob a bank' or 'please help me figure out how to rob this bank.' And that's what the main point of the thread was. To allow such discussion makes us complicit in it - it needs to be actively discouraged.

As for logical discussion of drug use, most of the arguments are simply based on how you feel on drugs. That isn't logic. That's like arguing that robbing a bank is a good thing because after you rob a bank, you have a lot of money. Heck, someone actually used the 'drugs exapand your mind' argument. Here's a news flash: those thoughts in your head that seem profound when you are drugs aren't profound, they are gibberish. They only seem profound because you are on drugs!

I wasn't spreading pro-drug stoner propaganda, my topic wasn't titled "smoke weed every day!"

The very first sentence of the thread was the equivalent of 'I'm robbing a bank right now'.






"I don't know why they call them fingers -- I've never seen them fing...
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-Otto

 

[moe darklight]

As for logical discussion of drug use, most of the arguments are simply based on how you feel on drugs. That isn't logic. That's like arguing that robbing a bank is a good thing because after you rob a bank, you have a lot of money.

but most of my arguments WEREN'T about how I feel on drugs. the closest to that was the discussion on the inspiration that one sometimes feels while on drugs (such as an artist)... but how is this not subject to scientific debate? isn't it a FACT that drugs make you feel certain things and think in certain ways that are out of the ordinary?

obviously I admitted on using drugs, but I used myself as an example of what I was arguing (the possibility of responsible drug use), I also used the example of people who do too much drugs, use them irresponsibly, do the wrong kind of drugs, etc. as a counterpoint. but I never said "drugs make you feel wonderful so they are good for you and you should do them!" .. if that's what you understood then you misread. most drugs can be and are very dangerous indeed!

as for your analogy of the bank robbery, I don't think the analogy is applicable here, I would use a different analogy; I would use discussion on gay marriage:
while gay marriage and the adoption of children by gay couples is illegal in some states/countries and is seen a socially unacceptable, many people feel that people are simply misinformed and that gay couples should be able to adopt. should we not be allowed to discuss our theories of why we think the law is wrong in these places?

in a bank robbery, someone always gets hurt, so obviously this should not be condoned by the board... by I was proposing (with evidence, and plenty of research that has been done) that this is not always the case with drugs, and that it is simply a problem of people who are not informed enough on the matter and have already made up their mind based on myths, urban legends, or strange ideas they have (and I think I've been proven right lol).

The very first sentence of the thread was the equivalent of 'I'm robbing a bank right now'.

maybe that part was inappropriate. I would have happily removed it. I just don't think that the entire discussion should have been erased because of it.

 

[russ_watters]

but most of my arguments WEREN'T about how I feel on drugs.

Sorry, just because some of the discussion was ok (I wouldn't say most), doesn't make the whole thing ok. It isn't worth our time or effort to go through and edit out all the inappropriateness in a thread we don't see the value into begin with.

And sluggo, this isn't a way around the locked/closed thread - we gave you our reasons and we're not going to go through the entire argument here. We've made our point.