Whale killed on the second try a century later

[edward]

I am not exactly a tree hugger or big on saving the whales, but for some reason this story has stuck in my mind. There is something about the whale living for over a hundred years after the first attempt to kill it that is bugging me. If ever a creature deserved to live a full natural life it was this one.

BOSTON (AP) - A 50-ton bowhead whale caught off the Alaskan coast last month had a weapon fragment embedded in its neck that showed it survived a similar hunt _ more than a century ago. Embedded deep under its blubber was a 3 1/2-inch arrow-shaped projectile that has given researchers insight into the whale's age, estimated between 115 and 130 years old.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=220&sid=1165546

 

[Evo]

This was also very upsetting to me. I am against whaling.

Did you hear that one of the two rare white rhinos left in Zimbabwe was killed by poachers the other day?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

 

[edward]

This was also very upsetting to me. I am against whaling.

Did you hear that one of the two rare white rhinos left in Zimbabwe was killed by poachers the other day?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

I hadn't heard about the Rhino. The whole world is getting bizarre. I did read that poachers are now killing Central African elephants for the meat as well as the ivory. Sad situation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19075813/

 

[devil-fire]

This was also very upsetting to me. I am against whaling.

Did you hear that one of the two rare white rhinos left in Zimbabwe was killed by poachers the other day?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

the poachers are just trying to earn a living and happen to not care about endangered animals. the people that there is something wrong with are the ones who buy the stuff.

 

[Evo]

the poachers are just trying to earn a living and happen to not care about endangered animals. the people that there is something wrong with are the ones who buy the stuff.

The poachers are willfully ignorant opportunists. If they are caught they should be made an example of to send a signal to other poachers that laws mean something. I'm sorry but poverty is not an excuse because the majority of the population is law abiding. From videos I've seen, these poachers are more aware of what they are doing than you give them credit for.

 

[Kurdt]

I think that Devil-fire makes a valid point though. If that stuff wasn't worth anything then people wouldn't poach. Its probably best to target the root of the problem, but that's easier said than done and that's why people are left trying to police poachers with limited resources.

 

[Evo]

I think that Devil-fire makes a valid point though. If that stuff wasn't worth anything then people wouldn't poach.

That doesn't mean that the poachers aren't scum. Of course buyers for illegal items drive criminal behavior. The poachers are criminal scum out to make a buck and they don't care how they do it.

Anyway, let's get back to the poor whale.

 

[edward]

Anyway, let's get back to the poor whale.

They cut it up with a chain saw instead of knives, who says we aren't making progress.

 

[Cyrus]

I once say a tribe of Alaskian Indians that hunted and killed a whale, and then they ate it and gave out the meat to the village (on tv). All the people in Green-peace were up in arms, but I am like eh. These people used to hunt whales for their village for thousands of years. They had not killed a whale in the last 100 years, so they were not exactly exhausting the whale population. Its part of their culture and way of life to eat whales and use the blubber.

I don't know how many whales are left in the world. I don't think people should kill whales, but I am not that opposed to Alaskian Indians hunting whales for food, as long as its done in modesty.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Did you guys know the Baiji dolphin (China's river dolphin) was declared funcitonally extinct on dec 2006?.

I mean, they should have acted when they knew they had left only 12.

 

[Moonbear]

I take it a bit differently. If you're going to kill a whale, better that it's an old one that has had a long life with plenty of time to breed many offspring rather than a young one. Culling the oldest animals of any group seems more natural than interferring with those that are in their prime reproductive years, and more likely to be a sustainable hunt if you only take the very old ones and leave the rest to breed.

 

[ShawnD]

The poachers are willfully ignorant opportunists.

There's just trying to earn a living. There will always be yuppie Americans with good jobs and nice homes saying how people in the third world should be living their lives. Stop whaling, stop killing elephants, stop destroying the rain forest. What exactly are these people supposed to live on?

Conservation is a good idea overall but you can't honestly force somebody to choose between life and death then get upset when they choose life. You may value whales, or rhinos, or the rainforest, but those poor people value life itself, and they will destroy whales, rhinos, and rainforests to maintain it.

 

[edward]

I take it a bit differently. If you're going to kill a whale, better that it's an old one that has had a long life with plenty of time to breed many offspring rather than a young one. Culling the oldest animals of any group seems more natural than interferring with those that are in their prime reproductive years, and more likely to be a sustainable hunt if you only take the very old ones and leave the rest to breed.

Aw gees moonie you always have to be so blasted practical. , but overall I tend to agree. I don't mind if the native Indians carry on a centuries old tradition. It has always been done on a very small scale compared with commercial whaling from factory ships.

As far as I know there are no size or age limits in commercial whaling like there are in other forms of aquatic harvesting. Off of the northwest coast Even crabs have to meet a size limit.

 

[edward]

There's just trying to earn a living. There will always be yuppie Americans with good jobs and nice homes saying how people in the third world should be living their lives. Stop whaling, stop killing elephants, stop destroying the rain forest. What exactly are these people supposed to live on?

Conservation is a good idea overall but you can't honestly force somebody to choose between life and death then get upset when they choose life. You may value whales, or rhinos, or the rainforest, but those poor people value life itself, and they will destroy whales, rhinos, and rainforests to maintain it.

For the most part this does not involve a life or death situation for individuals. The hunting, whaling and deforestation is being done commercially by big companies for for big bucks.

Ironically the closer a species comes to being extinct, the more some arrogant bastard will pay to have it on his dinner table or over his mantle.

 

[turbo]

If you think that whale was tough, Google on "Mocha Dick" a real-life light-colored bull sperm whale that was harpooned many, many, times and attacked whaling ships and naval vessels. He breached the hull of the Essex and the crew had to escape in small whale boats with insufficient provisions. Most of them could have probably made it to the Marquesas, but they feared to go there because the islands were populated by people who practiced cannibalism, so they made for South America, only to resort to cannibalism themselves. One fellow who drew the short straw to be executed was Owen Coffin, the cabin boy, and nephew of the captain. He was 14, IIR, and insisted on meeting his fate. The other youngster in that particular boat was the one who drew the short straw as executioner, and he pleaded with Coffin to swap roles, to no avail. The captain would not partake of Coffin, but luckily for him, another crew member died of natural causes not long after, so he had food. The story was (very roughly) the inspiration for Mountain's "Nantucket Sleighride". Melville had heard of Mocha Dick and the travails of the crew of the Essex, and "Moby Dick" was the resultant novel.

 

[Mattius_]

The whale was killed by Alaskan Indians. As far as I know it wasn't those Indians that made whales near exstinct in the first place. This happened with the bald eagle as well. The world was used and abused around them and now all of the sudden they are the criminals..? Same story for Africa. Absolutely no stability to due people outside mashing and dividing ethnicities and then arming them with millions of weapons.

 

[devil-fire]

don't get me wrong, i don't think poachers are vary moral people. it isn't like they are killing tigers, rhinos, sharks and whales for their dinner. many make a fairly well living when you consider how most people in those areas are doing.

but still, there are Lots of people who make a living off of morally grayish professions and poachers are one of them. the guys i think that are totally immoral are the guys who are plenty wealthy and just want to eat rhino eye balls for supper for no other reason then because they can.

the poachers could have an excuse that they are poorly educated so they do not fully understand the historical ramifications of the extinction of some of the most exotic animals on earth. the guys who can shell out $100,000 for the body of some animal usually understand full well what's going on (which is why they spend so much money on the stuff)

 

[Art]

I don't know how many whales are left in the world. I don't think people should kill whales, but I am not that opposed to Alaskian Indians hunting whales for food, as long as its done in modesty.

10 villages in Alaska have been given between them a 5 year quota of 255 whales to kill.

 

[Zeth]

The poachers are willfully ignorant opportunists. If they are caught they should be made an example of to send a signal to other poachers that laws mean something. I'm sorry but poverty is not an excuse because the majority of the population is law abiding. From videos I've seen, these poachers are more aware of what they are doing than you give them credit for.

In Zimbabwe? Now this is an example of willful ignorance in the extreme.

Educate thyself:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/zi.html#Intro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2678557.stm

It always pisses me off when I see large living large yanks/brit critisize people on the edge of starvation for trying to make a living.

 

[Evo]

In Zimbabwe? Now this is an example of willful ignorance in the extreme.

Educate thyself:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/zi.html#Intro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2678557.stm

It always pisses me off when I see large living large yanks/brit critisize people on the edge of starvation for trying to make a living.

Oh and these poachers shared the money with the populace? You don't even know who the poachers are, what makes you automatically assume they are some poor starving village person? You ever watch documentaries on poaching? Many of these people are professionals. Talk about ignorance. Educate thyself!

 

[Zeth]

Oh and these poachers shared the money with the populace? You don't even know who the poachers are, what makes you automatically assume they are some poor starving village person? You ever watch documentaries on poaching? Many of these people are professionals. Talk about ignorance. Educate thyself!

If they are not poaching they would be some poor starving village person, dead or a government thug killing people rather than animals. From all of those poacher is the best option.

 

[Evo]

If they are not poaching they would be some poor starving village person, dead or a government thug killing people rather than animals. From all of those poacher is the best option.

You don't even know what country they are from. There is a large illegal horn trading network across Africa. It's fairly organized and these poachers do this as a regular occupation.

 

[turbo]

You don't even know what country they are from. There is a large illegal horn trading network across Africa. It's fairly organized and these poachers do this as a regular occupation.

Yes, the trade in rhino horns and elephant tusks is thriving, fueled in part by demand by craftsmen and traditional medicine practitioners in Asia, and these poachers are better-financed and more heavily armed than the rangers that patrol to protect these animals. It's not "fairly" organized, but highly organized, and you can bet that some local, regional, and national officials are getting paid well to not let the rangers get too good at stopping the trade. Rhinos are in particular danger because their horns are not only prized in Chinese medicine, but for handles of ceremonial daggers in Yemen, a country in which the oil trade has put enough money into the hands of enough individuals to fuel the smuggling.

 

[ShawnD]

For the most part this does not involve a life or death situation for individuals. The hunting, whaling and deforestation is being done commercially by big companies for for big bucks.

Those companies also cause industrialization which is probably the single greatest improvement to health in the history of man kind. In poor nations without electricity or "big companies" as you may call them, have extremely high rates of lung cancer because all cooking and heating is done by burning wood in a poorly ventilated hut.
Shutting down their industry may not kill them today, but you're basically saying "it's ok if poor people die from lung cancer at the age of 30".

 

[edward]

Those companies also cause industrialization which is probably the single greatest improvement to health in the history of man kind. In poor nations without electricity or "big companies" as you may call them, have extremely high rates of lung cancer because all cooking and heating is done by burning wood in a poorly ventilated hut.
Shutting down their industry may not kill them today, but you're basically saying "it's ok if poor people die from lung cancer at the age of 30".

I didn't say anything like that.. You are the one trying to suggest that people will die of lung cancer by age thirty if we don't allow massive deforestation and the continuation of over harvesting of our aquatic life.

As far as industry, How long do you think the average third world villager is going to last working in a coal mine which has absolutely no safety or health regulations?

With the exception of Mexico, India ,China and a few others there is very little industrialization happening in most third world countries and when it does it is because those countries have a near slave labor economy and no pollution or health standards.

Better medical care provides improved health. Industrial pollution doesn't.

People working in factories just 75 miles south of me in Nogales Sonora Mexico are using wood fires for cooking food and heating their small plywood shanties. Big companies are down there to make a buck, not provide electricity, clean energy and sanitation to villagers.

 

[ShawnD]

I didn't say anything like that.. You are the one trying to suggest that people will die of lung cancer by age thirty if we don't allow massive deforestation and the continuation of over harvesting of our aquatic life.

What you are saying is that people should shut down all industry to meet some arbitrary standard set by you. Things like whales, trees, and food (made on the land that was clear-cut) are exported to other countries, and other goods come back in return. That's how an economy works. You gather stuff you have, you send it out, and in return you get stuff that you can't gather yourself. Some countries have whales, some have trees, and some have food.
You can't just shut down all trade, shut down all industry, and expect people to live better lives through magic.

Sure some people in third-world nations are still poor, but if you shut down all of their industry and expect them to not touch any of their own natural resources (like trees), what are they supposed to trade? Nothing? Do they remain third-world countries forever? You may use Mexico as an example of a place where some people do use low budget technology and have no electricity (true), but a lot of Mexicans do have electricity, and computers, and every other thing you have in your own home. If they had no economy, like you are requesting of them, then all Mexicans would be poor.

 

[edward]

ShawnD

Good god you sure got off on a tangent. Hey buddy the problems of the world have nothing to do with me. And I am not talking about shutting down any type of activity that provides a secure food supply and an improved subsistence for third world populations.

Nor am I inferring that all industry is bad, but the real world is far from being a perfect world. What I stated was that industries tend to take advantage of poor populations rather than significantly benefiting them.

As I mentioned, we have a third world country on our southern border and despite a large degree of industrialization, it still remains a third world country.

The situation (not the industry) described below is what I would want to see eliminated. It can only be done by requiring industries to be responsible members of the community.

Conditions in the colonias
Perhaps even more appalling than conditions inside the factories are those in the surrounding colonias. The companies are not required to pay any local taxes, so the cities have no funds for basic residential infrastructure. The companies and the local government provide no necessary social services of any sort to the workers they exploit. Workers, whose wages are already impossibly low, are forced to fend for themselves in every way, from child care to housing to garbage disposal.

The colonias in Tijuana, many now more than a decade old, still resemble vast temporary camps. Families cram into single-room, wooden shacks. Dirt floors seem to be the norm, and some lack roofs. Homes lack indoor plumbing or electricity. Badly rutted dirt roads wind through hot, dusty communities without parks, sidewalks, or any recreational facilities. The city doesn't pick up the garbage, so it is dumped haphazardly and strewn on nearby hillsides.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Mexico/Class_Poverty_MaquilaZone.html