Do abstract things and spiritual things exist in addition to physical things?

In summary, the conversation discusses the existence of abstract and spiritual things in addition to physical things. It is argued that mathematics is real but not physical, and it was invented as a way to make sense of finite objects. However, as mathematics evolved, it started to consider things that were not tangible. The concept of language and its role in quantifying and analyzing things is also brought up. Ultimately, it is concluded that everything is physical in some sense because we try to quantify and analyze things, but the key is to look at what the language corresponds to. The conversation also mentions that spiritual things do not exist and discusses the definition of existence.
  • #1
Dremmer
92
0
Do abstract things (e.g. numbers) and spiritual things exist in addition to physical things? Or is everything physical? I'd say that mathematics is certainly real, yet not physical. It wasn't just invented by humans.
 
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  • #2
What spiritual things?
 
  • #3
Hey Dremmer.

Physical things are usually defined to be tangible, measurable, and finite. If something doesn't have these properties then it is usually not considered to be physical.

Mathematics can come up with things outside this description and thus are considered outside the physical realm.

Mathematics in many ways was invented as a way to try make sense of the finite class of objects and how relations can be formed between them: in other words, the natural numbers were the first kinds of things considered because these referred to objects that had a correspondence with something physical whatever that physical thing is.

As time went on though, generalizations started to appear that considered things that were not fixed. Pythagoras and his "cult" were one group where one person discovered that you could get a square root of the hypotenuse when the other two sides were of unit 1 (of a right angled triangle) and they drowned the guy that discovered it.

Eventually this kind of thing has matured a little better with the idea of real numbers and the work started by Cantor on dealing with infinities and how they can be classified.

But the thing is that real numbers are not tangible: you can't measure things that correspond to things that are uncountable: physically, it doesn't make sense to think about such a thing: you can either measure something or you can't and measurement requires a form of quantization and this requires language.

Langauge is important because what language does is it takes something and turns it into some descriptive capacity and more importantly, the descriptive capacity is finite. in other words, all linguistic expressions in some language have to have a fixed number of symbols and the number of symbols themselves in the alphabet must also be finite as well.

But here is the thing: the language can map infinitely many things to one finite expression and this what analysis (analysis in general, not only mathematical) does: it turns something into a description in some language that has a finite sized expression, then it breaks it up, then uses that to do analysis, then it takes the result and brings it all together.

In the entire process, all elements of the descriptive capacity (i.e. all the sentences used to describe all the information used that is broken up and put back together) are all finite.

Now to get back to a response to your question: is everything physical?

I'm only going to give my opinion and the opinion is that due to analysis, we force things to be internally categorized as physical because we need to have a finite description of something to analyze it.

If we were not able to produce a languistic version of some measurement or description that wasn't finite in some way, then it could not be analyzed. Analysis requires things to be finite: what that finite description refers to is always in the context of the language, but it is always finite in the linguistic representation sense (i.e the sentence corresponding to the actual description/measurement/thing in the language).

So whether or not there are things that don't correspond to the physical things we sense either through ourselves or other physical instruments, we will always try and quantify things which means making them finite and this means that at least in this sense, everything in some sense is always physical.

The key thing though is to look at what the language corresponds to: in mathematics we can construct things that map infinite and uncountable things to countable ones linguistically and ultimately analyzing the nature of generic languages will give a further insight into your question because everything is descriptive.
 
  • #4
Spiritual things do not exist.
 
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  • #5
Dremmer said:
Do...spiritual things exist in addition to physical things?
What exactly is a "spiritual thing"?
 
  • #6
Ryan_m_b said:
What exactly is a "spiritual thing"?

You know that sock monster that keeps on stealing socks from your laundry... yea that very real indeed.

The word "Exists" has never been defined well and never will be imo mostly because philosophers would be out of a job if it ever was.
 
  • #7
The answer mat be in the question. A 'thing' must (seem to) exist, at least as a thought, to be a thing. But this is not to say that there is not an unmanifest phenomenon that cannot properly be called a 'thing'. Indeed, such a phenomenon is very useful in ontology, as Kant an Hegel show.
 

1. What is the definition of abstract and spiritual things?

Abstract things refer to concepts, ideas, or qualities that cannot be physically touched or observed. Examples include love, beauty, and justice. Spiritual things, on the other hand, are related to the non-physical realm and often involve beliefs, values, and practices that are connected to a higher power or deity.

2. How do we know if abstract and spiritual things exist?

The existence of abstract and spiritual things is a subject of philosophical and religious debate. Some argue that they are simply human constructs with no objective reality, while others believe in their existence based on personal experiences, faith, or cultural beliefs. Scientifically, it is difficult to prove or disprove the existence of abstract and spiritual things as they are not tangible or measurable.

3. Can abstract and spiritual things have an impact on our physical world?

Many people believe that abstract and spiritual things can have a profound impact on our physical world. For instance, concepts like justice and equality can inspire individuals and communities to take action and create tangible changes. Similarly, spiritual beliefs and practices can influence behavior and decision-making, thereby affecting the physical world.

4. How do abstract and spiritual things relate to scientific understanding?

Science and spirituality are often viewed as conflicting or separate ways of understanding the world. However, some scientists argue that abstract and spiritual things can coexist with the physical world and can be studied through a scientific lens. For example, studies have shown that mindfulness meditation, a spiritual practice, can have measurable effects on the brain and body.

5. Are abstract and spiritual things necessary for human existence?

This question is subjective and depends on individual beliefs and perspectives. Some argue that abstract and spiritual things are essential for human well-being and fulfillment, while others believe that they are not necessary for survival. Ultimately, the importance and role of abstract and spiritual things in human existence may vary for each person.

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