Homemade Helicopter: For the People.

[JerryL]

I know the physics behind the flight of a helicopter, which is why I find this thread to be ridiculous. More to the point, I don't actually see anyone here building a helicopter. It's all talk.


Ta-Da:

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34

Lots of posts there, and better than what I've read here.

Yes, Cyrus you may know all of the physics behind helicopter flight but do you want to deny others who don't a place to do it.
I believe you would agree that a LOT of talk would be a good ideal before attempting to start a build. It would save a lot of time and possibly lives.
Do you consider this thread ridiculous because you think that an average person could not build a helicopter?
While building a helicopter is quite a challenge it is possible.

 

[Cyrus]

Yes, Cyrus you may know all of the physics behind helicopter flight but do you want to deny others who don't a place to do it.

I'm not denying anyone the place to do it. If you want to, by all means knock yourself out.

I believe you would agree that a LOT of talk would be a good ideal before attempting to start a build. It would save a lot of time and possibly lives.

Actually, no. I think you need to calculate something. Otherwise, all this 'talk' is worthless. You have to be able to calculate if you want to design your own helicopter.

Do you consider this thread ridiculous because you think that an average person could not build a helicopter?

No, an average person cannot build their own helicopter. The exception would be if they bought a kit and assembled it.

While building a helicopter is quite a challenge it is possible.

Yeah, uhuh. Okay.

I think you should read this review by Dr. Celi (who teachers helicopter courses here) on https://www.amazon.com/dp/0486682307/?tag=pfamazon01-20to give you some education on what you're proposing:

Looking for information on how to fly a helicopter? Look elsewhere. Trying to design and build your own helicopter? Yeah, right, how about performing a quadruple bypass on your own heart? But if you are an aerospace engineer interested in helicopters, or if you are studying to become one (an engineer, not a helicopter), this is a must-have book.
This *is* an advanced textbook, which will take you from the fundamentals of helicopter aerodynamics, dynamics, and flight dynamics, all the way to the advanced topics. The book came out in 1980, and helicopter engineering has made a lot of progress since then. However, much of what is in the book remains current. The extensive bibliography gives a comprehensive picture of the state of the art until 1980.

Want some bedtime reading? Get Patricia Cornwell. Want to read stories about airplanes and military hi-tech? Read Dale Brown or Tom Clancy. Serious about learning helicopter engineering? Get this book.

If you really, honestly want to build a helicopter. I suggest you start showing me some calculations if you want me to take you seriously.

 

[JerryL]

I can't show you any calculations as I do not have enough knowledge of aerodynamics to produce them.
Never the less, one day I plan to build a helicopter. I don't know how long it will take to scrape up the money and information but I intend to do it.
Until that time I learn what I can and design parts as I can.

 

[Cyrus]

I can't show you any calculations as I do not have enough knowledge of aerodynamics to produce them.
Never the less, one day I plan to build a helicopter. I don't know how long it will take to scrape up the money and information but I intend to do it.
Until that time I learn what I can and design parts as I can.

I guess I won't be taking you seriously then.

 

[Cyrus]

I can't show you any calculations as I do not have enough knowledge of aerodynamics to produce them.
Never the less, one day I plan to build a helicopter. I don't know how long it will take to scrape up the money and information but I intend to do it.
Until that time I learn what I can and design parts as I can.

I don't want to dissuade you from aviation. I think it's great that you like helicopters. I just think your time and money would be better spent taking helicopter lessons and learning/reading the fundamentals of helicopter flight so you have a better respect for it.

There is a reason why it took guys with engineering degrees to design the first helicopters. Unlike airplanes they are far, far more complex.

 

[JerryL]

I guess I won't be taking you seriously then.

It doesn't matterr to me if you take me seriously or not.
I am studying what I can about helicopter aerodynamics and flight, including the FAA Helicopter Flight Handbook and Nasa pages on aerodynamics

 

[Cyrus]

It doesn't matterr to me if you take me seriously or not.
I am studying what I can about helicopter aerodynamics and flight, including the FAA Helicopter Flight Handbook and Nasa pages on aerodynamics

That does not qualify you to design a helicopter.

 

[JerryL]

I never said that I was Qualified to design a helicopter. I said I was going to build one.
I am not going to start on it soon. I said that I was learning so I could.

This is not helping me reach my objective and is only marginally on topoic so good bye.

 

[Cyrus]

To be clear, do you want to design a helicopter, or do you want to build a kit? If you're trying to build a kit, then the helicopter forum I linked to earlier is exactly where you should be posting.

If you want to design one, then I would kindly ask you not waste our time posting because this is a serious technical forum.

That being said, if you have technical questions on helicopter theory, make a new thread specific to your question and I will try and answer it for you there.

 

[WhoWee]

I never said that I was Qualified to design a helicopter. I said I was going to build one.
I am not going to start on it soon. I said that I was learning so I could.

This is not helping me reach my objective and is only marginally on topoic so good bye.

Don't be discouraged. Put your ideas to paper and mark the date. As you learn more, revise and date your changes. Who knows, maybe one day we'll be talking about your latest designs.

 

[Cyrus]

Don't be discouraged. Put your ideas to paper and mark the date. As you learn more, revise and date your changes. Who knows, maybe one day we'll be talking about your latest designs.

The blind should not lead the blind.

 

[WhoWee]

The blind should not lead the blind.

No, by all means listen to the negative people who tell you you can't do something, that you're not qualified and lack the ability to achieve your goals. Be uninspired and accept your place in the world.

Is that your advice to this person Cyrus?

 

[Cyrus]

No, by all means listen to the negative people who tell you you can't do something, that you're not qualified and lack the ability to achieve your goals. Be uninspired and accept your place in the world.

Is that your advice to this person Cyrus?

He is not qualified, and does lack the ability to design a helicopter. I already stated this. Get over it.

PS: I can't wait until someone comes by claiming to want to build a spaceship and equally gets your support. Your comments are equally outlandish to my engineering eyes. Does the engineering degree mean nothing to you?

 

[FredGarvin]

Is that your advice to this person Cyrus?

No. It's more along the lines of, like surgery, there are some things people without a certain level of knowledge should not attempt. Gain knowledge first, then try. With knowledge comes the ability to see more things that can pop up and kill you. Even Igor Sikorsky almost killed himself a few times and he went to one of the most prestigious aircraft design schools in the world at the time.

 

[JerryL]

If you want to design one, then I would kindly ask you not waste our time posting because this is a serious technical forum.

That being said, if you have technical questions on helicopter theory, make a new thread specific to your question and I will try and answer it for you there.

I am not wasting your time. You chose to start this exchange therefore you are wasting your own time. Yes this is a serious technical forum I suggest you look back at your posts on this forum. Ummm yes very technical, in fact I find it hard to understand them care to clarify for us non techies

Looks like an utlra light heli to me!

The Cheyenne is an interesting helicopter. I was talking with a retired air force colonel who knew test pilots that flew it. Every test pilot loved it because it flew like a fighter and not a helicopter. It has a rigid rotor system, like the Sikorsky ABC (Advancing Blade Concept) concept demensontrator. Note, both aircraft suffer from significant vibration problems, but the Sikorsky X2 has vibration suppression systems. Second note, this is not the first time Sikorsky has made such a helicopter.



I was told by people involved in this aircraft that it required three people to operate. A pilot, copilot and a guy on throttle. The guy on throttle was busy 100% of the time adjusting the engines that gave it forward propulsion and torque for the main rotors.

The x2 is different in that it has a rigid rotor with a significantly reduced rotor hub size. (The one pictured above is huge).

I'm trying to identify the mission statement of this thread, and it's all over the place. Could someone close it, as PF is not the place to ask how to build your own helicopter.

Some of the posts are off-topic to making your own helicopter, but interesting. I think they would be better served moved into a new thread with a more reasonable thesis.

I believe that these are all of the post ou made to the thread before You started this exchange( copied from your posts with the exception of the photo).
All very technical, couldn't grasp them without engineering training.
Enough said. I will no longer respond to anything on this subject as it is a waste of my time to correspond with a closed minded person.

 

[JerryL]

I never said that I was Qualified to design a helicopter. I said I was going to build one.
I am not going to start on it soon. I said that I was learning so I could.

This is not helping me reach my objective and is only marginally on topic so good bye.

As I stated earlier I am trying to learn.

No. It's more along the lines of, like surgery, there are some things people without a certain level of knowledge should not attempt. Gain knowledge first, then try. With knowledge comes the ability to see more things that can pop up and kill you. Even Igor Sikorsky almost killed himself a few times and he went to one of the most prestigious aircraft design schools in the world at the time.

Thank you Mr. Garvin, I know form your ealier posts you think that I should attempt this but you aren't telling me can't do it. You are telling to learn the subject first which is what I am trying to do. It is impossible for me start on it any time soon due to cash flow. So this is the otimum time to learn. could you recommend websites or books on the subject.
Jerry L

 

[Cyrus]

You are telling to learn the subject first which is what I am trying to do. It is impossible for me start on it any time soon due to cash flow. So this is the otimum time to learn. could you recommend websites or books on the subject.
Jerry L

I hope you realize a typical helicopter costs roughly $1000/lb. So a 2,000 lb helicopter is on the order of $2 million dollars. A robinson R22 (probably one of the smallest you can get) is on the order of $240k.

Again, are you serious?

 

[FredGarvin]

One really good book that covers a lot of the ideas (not a theoretical book) and has a lot of good information is Coyle's book "The Art and Science of Flying Helicopters." It has great overviews of different systems and also of the peculiarities of helicopter flight that you would never guess if you were thinking like a fixed wing pilot.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/081382169X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[Cyrus]

I gave you a link to a book (and book review) on Amazon.com Jerryl.

 

[JerryL]

Thank you sir. I will take a look at it. I am looking into the more technical side as well as the practical. What I want to do is build a small helicopter, FAR 103 compliant. This might be a little on the small side for you but it's big enough for me. Once again, thank you for your time.
Jerry L

 

[WhoWee]

No. It's more along the lines of, like surgery, there are some things people without a certain level of knowledge should not attempt. Gain knowledge first, then try. With knowledge comes the ability to see more things that can pop up and kill you. Even Igor Sikorsky almost killed himself a few times and he went to one of the most prestigious aircraft design schools in the world at the time.

I agree with you Fred. That's why I posted this response.

"Don't be discouraged. Put your ideas to paper and mark the date. As you learn more, revise and date your changes. Who knows, maybe one day we'll be talking about your latest designs."

I encouraged use of pencil and paper, learning and review.

Unfortunately, once again, Cyrus found it necessary to arrogantly attack me personally with his "blind leading the blind" comments.

 

[FredGarvin]

I am looking into the more technical side as well as the practical.

Well, there is the opposite end of the spectrum with Johnson's book on helicopter theory.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0486682307/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[Cyrus]

Well, there is the opposite end of the spectrum with Johnson's book on helicopter theory.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0486682307/?tag=pfamazon01-20

I love this review of the book:

I found this book to be an extremely advanced treatise on design aerodynamics. My experience as a Navy Pilot (where I was privileged to have participated in countless hours of classroom aerodynamics) and 33 years as an Airline Captain was not adequate for an understanding of 99.99% of the discussions in this book.
If one is seeking to design an advanced helicopter, he will find this book to contain most anything he needs, that is, if he could find someone to explain what is in print.

This book is suitable only for someone with a PHD in Helicopter aerodynamics, or one seeking a PHD in that field.

It is DEFINITELY not a book for a helicopter pilot seeking to improve and or increase his knowledge of flying techniques and/or flying theory.

HINT HINT, Jerry.

 

[JerryL]

Thank you Mr. Garvin.
I believe I'll start with the tricycle (simpler texts) and work my up the more advanced stuff.
I would be interested in what you think of this website.

http://www.dynamicflight.com/aerodynamics/basics/

I have just started to study it and was wondering your opinion.
WhoWee I don't know your background or I would have asked for opinion also if you are learned in field I would like your opinion also.

Thank you for your time. I hope you don't think I am not wasting it.

Jerry L

 

[JerryL]

I love this review of the book:



HINT HINT, Jerry.

I would not insult or run you down for attemping to improve yourself in a field that I knew and you did not. Lay off.
I want to learn.
I have done nothing to you.

 

[Cyrus]

Can you do nothing but put someone else down? Does it make you feel superior?
I would not insult or run you down for attemping to improve yourself in a field that I knew and you did not. Lay off.
I want to learn.

There is a difference between attemping to improve yourself and boasting you're giong to build your own helicopter with no money or technical knowledge. I am fully willing to help people that are reasonable in their propositions. I gave you reasonable advice earlier, which you ignored. Aviation is not cheap. If you can't afford to play in this game, don't even bother. Stop being stubborn and listen, because I do fly and I do aircraft design. You have no idea what goes behind the scenes in terms of engineering analysis and tooling to make parts for things as simple as the chair you sit on inside the cockpit of a helicopter. This is one of those threads where if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Anyways, I told you I would help you on questions about theory if you made a thread specific to your question.

 

[01012010]

how can I make the helicopter main rotor blade & main rotor gear box?

 

[Brian_C]

1. Obtain an advanced degree in mechanical/aerospace engineering.

2. Spend 15+ years working in the field of helicopter design and manufacturing.

3. Become a master CNC machinist or hire a bunch of CNC machinists.

4. Quit your day job and spend 5-10 years designing, fabricating, and testing your helicopter design.

 

[FredGarvin]

how can I make the helicopter main rotor blade & main rotor gear box?

 

[RonL]

how can I make the helicopter main rotor blade & main rotor gear box?

Not sure if this is a hit and run post, or if you are in Jr. High, nothing in your profile to indicate what you can do, or if you have any qualifications to justify an answer.

Brian C sure went overboard on requirments I know several people that can and some have built blades and gear boxes, using limited shop equipment and some parts from rear axels of junk trucks and cars.

Basic skills and study, along with access to the proper tools can produce almost anything
Now to qualify that statement, using tools properly requires a learning curve that can be quick for some and quite long for others.

Ron

 

[minicoper]

happenly come across this video clip, seems the chinese are one step ahead already, they have DIY their cheap helicopter and made it fly in air already, and according to it, the total cost is just around $4k. though looks very scary when in flying. :-)

http://hi.baidu.com/tblc/blog/item/d4657d1e6b85baf11ad5762f.html

 

[Cyrus]

happenly come across this video clip, seems the chinese are one step ahead already, they have DIY their cheap helicopter and made it fly in air already, and according to it, the total cost is just around $4k. though looks very scary when in flying. :-)

http://hi.baidu.com/tblc/blog/item/d4657d1e6b85baf11ad5762f.html

In what way are they a step ahead?

 

[minicoper]

the guy made the thing out there and it works, though looks dangerous, and we are still under discussion and in theory... :-)

 

[Cyrus]

the guy made the thing out there and it works, though looks dangerous, and we are still under discussion and in theory... :-)

These types of small helicopters have been around for well over ten years.

See this link:
[1] http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/light.htmlYour statement about us 'still being in theory' is a puzzle to me. We (technical experts who have given advice, not the yahoos asking the questions) have simply said that this is a stupid idea to be attempted by someone without training in helicopter aerodynamics. No one is actually trying to calculate or prove anything here theoretically.

 

[FredGarvin]

The cheap, Chinese (redundant) helicopter link didn't work for me.

Aviation + Chinese = no friggin' way. With the amount of copying and downright fraud when it comes to spec'd hardware and components, there is no way I would even entertain the notion.