Grad admissions and fluffy personal history essays

In summary, the conversation discusses the frustration with the essay requirements for graduate school applications in the UC system, particularly for hard science programs like physics. The essay prompts ask for personal backgrounds and contributions to diversity, which seems irrelevant for these types of programs. The participants also question whether admissions committees actually take the time to read these essays and suggest that they may be used to differentiate between similar applicants. However, it is pointed out that demonstrating personal values and diverse perspectives may be important for securing funding and representing the university. Overall, the purpose of the essays is to see how the applicant plans to use their PhD after graduation.
  • #1
Pengwuino
Gold Member
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20
I've been applying throughout the UC system and one thing common to their application process is their absolutely stupid essay requirements. Now, maybe if you're in some fail-major like psychology or sociology or ethnic(racist)-studies, these stupid essays might make sense. They want the same thing basically:

UC Irvine Graduate Application said:
In an essay, discuss how your personal background informs your decision to pursue a graduate degree. Please include any educational, familial, cultural, economic, or social experiences, challenges, or opportunities relevant to your academic journey; how you might contribute to social or cultural diversity within your chosen field; and/or how you might serve educationally underrepresented segments of society with your degree.

Who the hell cares? I mean seriously, I'm applying to the physics PhD program and I'm grown up enough to realize the pertinent time in my educational career was my college education and that involved getting my *** handed to me for 7 years while I got my BS and MS. How did my culture and family affect that? They got the hell out of the way. How am I going to contribute to social or cultural diversity in my field? Does being Mexican count? Otherwise, I don't plan on contributing anything as I study plasma physics.

Do Physics grad admissions even take any time to look at this junk? The personal statement where you tell the department your academic interest and career goals makes total sense. This part, however, does not. Berkeley's was even worse.
 
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  • #2
I'm interested in this too. It seems like they wouldn't care very much at all, but then you think about how many people are at such a high level with GPA, GRE and possibly research experience. What could set them apart? I don't know if it would be essays, but it could be.
 
  • #3
If you think about it, universities need to be funded by someone, be it the state, donators or their activity on the private market. And along with that come various interests and incentives as to how that university should operate. I'm not saying this is the case, but why can't you conceive of the state or donator to want from the university to not only look at people as what they can contribute as scientists, but as what they can contribute as people? I mean, I can see the interplay between that and say career goals, and I don't think it's as stupid as you may think. There's not much difference between certain candidates as far as grades and formal recognition are concerned, but there can be a difference in how that person will represent the university once he gets admitted to the program. Because however you look at it, when it says you are a PhD student at a particular university, you are representing it in a way, and people do corellate your actions with the brand.

Again, I have no idea whether the admissions committees look at those essays, but I can see why they would, and it doesn't really sound as stupid to me. I think we're far removed from the era when only isolated geniuses were able to produce significant results, so why wouldn't they try to choose candidates they feel are more aligned with their values or what they're trying to represent.
 
  • #4
Sure, the thought did occur to me about funding from donors. However, I'm under the assumption that funding for hard sciences tends to come from federal/state sources, not so much private sources.
 
  • #5
These factors should be considered for undergraduates not phd applicants in physics, and I think most schools won't care, but it might help them understand academic records or shortcomings
 
  • #6
Perhaps they want to see that the people they are admitting are not mindless antisocial robots rather, they have lives,families and think about other things apart from supersting theory. Such as the community and their immediate environment.

Or perhaps they know how rediculous this essay is and are just testing your ability to be creative (make up rubbish).
 
  • #7
Pengwuino said:
I've been applying throughout the UC system and one thing common to their application process is their absolutely stupid essay requirements.
<snip>
Do Physics grad admissions even take any time to look at this junk?

I can't peak for every Department, but the answer is 'yes'.

Try to think of it this way- why do you want a PhD? That is, ask not what the PhD does for you, but what you will use your PhD for *after* you graduate.
 
  • #8
Andy Resnick said:
I can't peak for every Department, but the answer is 'yes'.

Try to think of it this way- why do you want a PhD? That is, ask not what the PhD does for you, but what you will use your PhD for *after* you graduate.

There are two essays. The personal history which I have just quoted and the statement of purpose. The statement of purpose is where you say why you want a phd, what your career goals are, what field you want to work in, etc. This personal history is completely different. I don't understand who would care unless you had two identical applicants and needed something to differentiate them.
 
  • #9
I don't know about the UC system but out of the 10 schools I'm applying to only U Washington asks for a personal history statement and it's optional.
 
  • #10
Pengwuino said:
There are two essays. The personal history which I have just quoted and the statement of purpose. The statement of purpose is where you say why you want a phd, what your career goals are, what field you want to work in, etc. This personal history is completely different. I don't understand who would care unless you had two identical applicants and needed something to differentiate them.

There are never "two identical applicants'- that's a fiction.

In any case, NSF requires a "broader impact" statement on its grant applications (and NIH now expects something similar) that is worded nearly identically with your OP quote. Questions like that are now a fact of life, and you have to come up with compelling answers.
 
  • #11
I'm going to conjecture here, but for a majority of PhD programs, most people applying have pretty good grades, probably some exposure to research and recommendation letters.

I guess given that assumption, the school would then want to pick someone with a personality that gels with the school be it the advisors, the students that they will possibly teach, and other current faculty members.

Personally I think its a dangerous move to just base a decision like this on performance alone. This is actually why most jobs for graduates have things like personality/psychometric/bla tests: When you go to work for a company, the company wants to know if you'll fit into their culture. Some cultures are cut-throat like in say finance, and there of course industries and professions that favor empathy and other aspects over other things.

The culture thing is important and it applies to your situation of grad school and not just getting employment as a graduate.
 
  • #12
Andy Resnick said:
There are never "two identical applicants'- that's a fiction.

In any case, NSF requires a "broader impact" statement on its grant applications (and NIH now expects something similar) that is worded nearly identically with your OP quote. Questions like that are now a fact of life, and you have to come up with compelling answers.

The thing I hate is that everyone can just lie and depending on who you talk to, "everyone lies".

On a related note, Berkeley asks you for your financial status in great depth (savings account, stocks, bonds, real estate). I told my friend about it and she says "You're probably just like one of the 3 dumbass white people in the world who actually tell the truth on that kinda thing". On the other hand, I brought up something else similar with one of my professors earlier this semester. I think it may even have been personal histories on PhD applications. He said to never risk it because if they catch you, you're through, period, on that application and who knows how far it'll reach. I really wonder how much rigor universities go into checking things like that and in fact, how many people lie on things like this.

@chiro: I do agree that it's dangerous to base a decision on performance alone but I don't think things like this help. I see education going the way my professors do. They are constantly increasing the percentage of your grade the exams are worth because they know everyone cheats on the homework.So I see the same thing with these kinda essays. Who knows if it's all a fairytale.
 
  • #13
Pengwuino said:
The thing I hate is that everyone can just lie and depending on who you talk to, "everyone lies".

On a related note, Berkeley asks you for your financial status in great depth (savings account, stocks, bonds, real estate). I told my friend about it and she says "You're probably just like one of the 3 dumbass white people in the world who actually tell the truth on that kinda thing". On the other hand, I brought up something else similar with one of my professors earlier this semester. I think it may even have been personal histories on PhD applications. He said to never risk it because if they catch you, you're through, period, on that application and who knows how far it'll reach. I really wonder how much rigor universities go into checking things like that and in fact, how many people lie on things like this.

@chiro: I do agree that it's dangerous to base a decision on performance alone but I don't think things like this help. I see education going the way my professors do. They are constantly increasing the percentage of your grade the exams are worth because they know everyone cheats on the homework.So I see the same thing with these kinda essays. Who knows if it's all a fairytale.

I can understand why you think things like this are "wishy-washy". I remember filling out things for university and they asked questions about achievements and so on, and to me it was full of ****: its like "I'm just out of high school, what do you expect me to have done!"

Before starting my math degree I'd done a variety of different jobs, both blue and white collar and although a lot of people like to play down the "HR crap" that people have to go through, it has in my experience made a difference. In different environments you have different mindsets, and the right mindsets are needed to get things done whether they be getting two or three dozen people on an assembly line to do their job, or to get half a dozen programmers working with artists and others to compromise and get as much done as possible without "overflowing with unnecessary meetings".

I think if you get into some kind of contract or agreement for working with someone for a few years, that it is important to spend the extra time finding out what they are like. Trust me, I've been there and its not a good thing.

With regards to lying, many people do lie, but that's one reason why companies have HR departments. If they are worth their salt, they will be able to see through a person and tell if they are lying or not and if they will fit in with the culture of the workplace. There's nothing wrong with losing out on a job because of lack of cultural fit: it can do you a favor in some ways if your personality is indeed not a fit.

I can say from experience that it is far more pleasant to work in a team where you gel together, where you can speak your mind and get honest feedback and not be afraid of feedback, where you can constructive criticism, and where people aren't trying to stab you in the back for their benefit, and to also be with people that have genuine interest and concern for you. It may sound like some naive nostalgic black and white movie, but it makes a huge difference on your performance, productivity, and positivity.

As you may or may not know lots of companies have "bonding" activities that get people together for some various reason. I remember when I was a factory worker in one, they had barbecue days. In programming, they had paintball and so on. Some might see it as corporate PR ******** (and to a degree it may be), but the thing is, getting good people that are both highly intelligent, very hard working, and have a good personality are extremely hard to find. You can probably find someone with one or two of those traits, but all three is going to be finding a diamond in the rough.

I might sound like some corporate ******** wanker artist, but I'm telling you from experience what it is like. Chances are if you go to work for a company or perhaps somewhere in the public sector that has any kind of HR department that you'll go through this every time.

I think if you ********, people will pick it up whether they do so at the screening of your essay, or whether its at the interview. Keep the euphemisms low, keep it simple and concise and give them clear, simple, verifiable facts that are to the point and be honest and don't worry if they reject you: if its for cultural reasons they'll probably tell you (even if you have to ask) and it doesn't mean you're bad, it just means that they are a different kind of culture.

Good luck with it all, I hope you find somewhere where you at least don't fret getting up in the morning.
 
  • #14
Pengwuino said:
The thing I hate is that everyone can just lie and depending on who you talk to, "everyone lies".

I'm not really sure where you are going with this. Hopefully, I did not give the impression you should make things up on an application.

That said, I'm not sure why Berkely (or anywhere) would ask you detailed financial information unless it was for financial aid, or you are applying for a security clearance.
 
  • #15
This is from Columbia University:
"It is not required that you provide this information. The Graduate School of Arts and Sciences asks that you complete this section to help the University gain a better understadning of applicants' socio-economic background."

the section is financial history socio-economic background
 
  • #16
Andy Resnick said:
I'm not really sure where you are going with this. Hopefully, I did not give the impression you should make things up on an application.

That said, I'm not sure why Berkely (or anywhere) would ask you detailed financial information unless it was for financial aid, or you are applying for a security clearance.

No, I'm wondering why universities ask for such silly essays that people can just lie on to look better for graduate admissions.

Berkeley asked for financial aid, but no other university has asked such detailed questions for any reason.
 
  • #17
Pengwuino said:
The thing I hate is that everyone can just lie and depending on who you talk to, "everyone lies".

It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a convincing lie for a question like that, and sort of pointless to try. You have no idea what the admissions committee is looking for so the truth is as good an answer as anything else.

They are constantly increasing the percentage of your grade the exams are worth because they know everyone cheats on the homework.

Depends on what you mean by cheat. In every class I've ever given I've actively encouraged students to work with each other and share answers.

So I see the same thing with these kinda essays. Who knows if it's all a fairytale.

It's quite difficult to lie convincingly in these sorts of essay questions.
 
  • #18
twofish-quant said:
Depends on what you mean by cheat. In every class I've ever given I've actively encouraged students to work with each other and share answers.

The profs here use online homework problems for the intro classes and what people do is just e-mail each other the answers once the program tells them the solutions and everyone just chooses the right answer. The profs know because the submission times for each problem are just 1 after the other (as in a few second in between) and all correct on the first try.

As for the essay, I don't see it as that hard if they never do any research on you. For me, I attended a decent school, did well, decided to stay at home for my undergrad at a very cheap university that my parents paid for. It was pretty boring trying to get anything out of that.

I always feel like people are going to bs and be like "i took care of 4 brothers because my parents were disabled and took 2 full time jobs because of it while i battled dyslexia and still was able to publish 3 papers in Science". Though ok, that last part can obviously be figured out as fake :P
 
  • #19
Pengwuino said:
The profs here use online homework problems for the intro classes and what people do is just e-mail each other the answers once the program tells them the solutions and everyone just chooses the right answer.

Personally, what I always require is that students show their work. Also, I do some "make up the question" questions. Make up a problem with ax^2 + bx + c = 0, solve it and show your work.

The other thing that I do is to create homework problems that are impossibly difficult so that if you get the right answer, that's proof that you googled the answer. I like that because that's the way the "real world" works.

As for the essay, I don't see it as that hard if they never do any research on you.

It's harder than it looks. And I really don't see the point in making something up that isn't true. Also, remember that your adviser is going to be the most person in your life that isn't a blood relative and that the physics department will be your social environment for the next five years. If you make up something about your brother being shot in Iraq, people *will* figure it out, when he shows up at the department.

For me, I attended a decent school, did well, decided to stay at home for my undergrad at a very cheap university that my parents paid for. It was pretty boring trying to get anything out of that.

Your life is probably more exciting than you think it is. Also are you the first person in your family to study physics? If yes, then you can write a nice essay on how you are doing something different. If no, you can talk about family tradition of physics.

One thing to remember is that just by the fact that you want to study physics rather than get an MBA, you are already "weird."

I always feel like people are going to bs and be like "i took care of 4 brothers because my parents were disabled and took 2 full time jobs because of it while i battled dyslexia and still was able to publish 3 papers in Science". Though ok, that last part can obviously be figured out as fake :P

1) Except that I know someone that actually did something like that (moonlighted as a taxi driver while supporting his parents and extended family)

2) They are probably going to find out when you get on campus. If you claim to be dyslexic then there are going to be tons of things that the university will likely do to help you, and if you turn out not to be, then you are dead.
 
  • #20
twofish-quant said:
Personally, what I always require is that students show their work. Also, I do some "make up the question" questions. Make up a problem with ax^2 + bx + c = 0, solve it and show your work.
I'd imagine if everyone were logical they would choose the easiest equation. Probably x^2-y^2 = 0 and then you'd have no way of knowing if they cheated. The other problem is that they could be cheating out of laziness but know the material and when you ask them to prove themselves they are capable.

The other thing that I do is to create homework problems that are impossibly difficult so that if you get the right answer, that's proof that you googled the answer. I like that because that's the way the "real world" works.
What if a student genuinely could answer your question? Isn't googling also a resource? I don't see the difference when a student follows the same process outlined in a chapter example without understanding as opposed to googling the answer and following it's process. If you also googled the answer and understood how the answer was derived then is it cheating?

You could also very well lie on a history essay describing personal things without any evidence involved.

Don't take this as me saying lying is academic or moral. I'm just saying there are possibilities when you just can't know if a student cheated or not.
 
  • #21
Fizex said:
<snip>
I'm just saying there are possibilities when you just can't know if a student cheated or not.

Of course- it's impossible to stop cheating. The trick is to reduce the motivation to cheat, perhaps by increasing the effort required to cheat. I make group work part of the homework, thus taking away one method of cheating. I also treat the students as adults- by building an environment of trust in the classroom, I have found that cheating is not an issue.
 
  • #22
Fizex said:
Don't take this as me saying lying is academic or moral. I'm just saying there are possibilities when you just can't know if a student cheated or not.

No system is fool-proof but you just ultimately have to make things difficult enough so that it's not worth the effort.

In any case, I've found that one of the better ways of preventing cheating is to just not assign grades. Here is a class, here is a test. I don't care how you pass the test, no one other than you will know how well you did on it.
 
  • #23
Fizex said:
I'd imagine if everyone were logical they would choose the easiest equation. Probably x^2-y^2 = 0 and then you'd have no way of knowing if they cheated.

At least in the classes I've taken, if you just go to someone and they let you copy their homework verbatim showing the work, that's not cheating. At least you learned something, and if by copying down work, you learn enough so that you can reproduce the process on the test, then GREAT!

The other problem is that most people will get annoyed if you mooch their answers and they get nothing in return. I spent five hours working this out, why should I let you copy my answers?

The other thing is motivation. I try to avoid classes in which the students aren't enthusiastic about learning the material. If the student doesn't want to learn, then why am I wasting my time trying to teach. If they do want to learn, then they'll come up with hard questions.

The other problem is that they could be cheating out of laziness but know the material and when you ask them to prove themselves they are capable.

In the classes that I've taught, I've set things up so that copy answers on homework is not considered cheating. If you can find someone to give you answer, and you do well on the tests, then you've learned the material and that's what I care about. Students are busy. I'm busy, and it's a waste of my time to be the test police.

What if a student genuinely could answer your question?

They my class is too easy, and I'll ask them to move to a harder one.

I don't see the difference when a student follows the same process outlined in a chapter example without understanding as opposed to googling the answer and following it's process. If you also googled the answer and understood how the answer was derived then is it cheating?

Any class that I've every taught, I've encouraged students to use google.

You could also very well lie on a history essay describing personal things without any evidence involved.

You could, but why would you?

I'm just saying there are possibilities when you just can't know if a student cheated or not.

Something that I'd like to do, but I've never been able to quite do is to tell students that they all get A+++'s in quantum mechanics for showing up. If you just want the grade, you can leave (and of course the grade isn't going to be worth very much if people know that you get an A+++ for showing up). If you really want to learn quantum mechanics then just stick around.

Some that knows that they can get an A+++ by just walking out the room, but is taking the tests anyone is probably not cheating.
 
  • #24
Andy Resnick said:
I also treat the students as adults- by building an environment of trust in the classroom, I have found that cheating is not an issue.

I don't understand what this means when people say it. It seems self-fulfilling. If you aren't looking for people that cheat, then how would you catch people cheating?
 
  • #25
Pengwuino said:
I don't understand what this means when people say it. It seems self-fulfilling. If you aren't looking for people that cheat, then how would you catch people cheating?

I'm not completely certain, but if someone was competitive for a graduate position and got a really good GRE score (where they were monitored under exam conditions), then the GRE backs up the idea that the student knows their stuff, and can demonstrate that knowledge on his own without help.

Personally if that person that matches the description above spent most of their time cheating, then I would really really like to see both professionals (ie PhDs, postdocs, professors) and that particular person explain how the hell that could and really did happen.
 
  • #26
Pengwuino said:
I don't understand what this means when people say it. It seems self-fulfilling. If you aren't looking for people that cheat, then how would you catch people cheating?

I don't know about other people, but when I say it, I mean this:

I clearly tell the students my expectations of them, and I tell them what they can expect of me in return. And then I back up my statements with concrete actions- both when expectations are met and when they are not.

A substantial fraction of students in my class are 'returning' students- older people with a job and kids. They understand what a work ethic is- besides working harder than anyone else, they *really* despise cheating, and they usually serve as role models for the younger students in class.
 
  • #27
In my opinion, there's no way to get an A in class at university-level by cheating. For an A in a class you need to do well on exams, and in order to do well on exams you have to know the material. Whether you cheated the first time around or not, if you get an A on the exam you probably know the material.

Personal background probably isn't really all that important, and I personally doubt professors would do much more than glance at it.
 
  • #28
Pengwuino said:
I don't understand what this means when people say it. It seems self-fulfilling. If you aren't looking for people that cheat, then how would you catch people cheating?

Because people that cheat usually don't do it once, and if they keep doing it, it will eventually blow up on them.

A substantial fraction of students in my class are 'returning' students- older people with a job and kids. They understand what a work ethic is- besides working harder than anyone else, they *really* despise cheating, and they usually serve as role models for the younger students in class.

Same here. One other thing is that older returning students really don't have any incentive to cheat.

Also, the classes that I've taught are generally online courses with a lot of human interaction, so that I pretty much quickly figure out where a students strengths and weaknesses are. The only real way you could cheat without getting caught is to have someone else take the class for you, and that gets hard because people tend to take the same classes online, so people quickly know each other.

If you obviously having difficulty in a class, and suddenly you turn in a test with a perfect score, that's going to look very odd. I can then e-mail you and ask you some quick questions to see if you understand the material and you suddenly can't, that's going to look really, really odd. Also it doesn't help, because if you get a perfect score on a test, and you don't understand the material, you are going to get steam rollered on the next test.

If you have a small class size with a lot of student-teacher interaction, it becomes more difficult to cheat convincingly than to actually learn the material. You can't copy someone else's answers, because I look at all of the tests, and so I'm going to see if the answers are exactly the same. You can't turn in a perfect paper, because you need to have some convincing mistakes.
 
  • #29
twofish-quant said:
Also, the classes that I've taught are generally online courses with a lot of human interaction, so that I pretty much quickly figure out where a students strengths and weaknesses are. <snip>

If you have a small class size with a lot of student-teacher interaction, it becomes more difficult to cheat convincingly than to actually learn the material. You can't copy someone else's answers, because I look at all of the tests, and so I'm going to see if the answers are exactly the same. You can't turn in a perfect paper, because you need to have some convincing mistakes.

Excellent points! I make it a point to meet personally with each student within the first couple of weeks- to get to know them, to find out what their goals are, answer any questions, etc. That small amount of time I spend pays enormous dividends.

Another thing I forgot to mention a couple of posts ago, I've made all my exams open-book and open note. That eliminates an easy method of cheating (the 'cheat sheet').
 
  • #30
Just be aware, Pengwuino started this topic, "Grad admissions and fluffy personal history essays", and the topic contents has been altered to a discussion about cheating in courses and classes. Both of these are very interesting, but they are not equivalent.
 

1. What is the purpose of a personal history essay in grad school admissions?

The purpose of a personal history essay in grad school admissions is to provide the admissions committee with a deeper understanding of who you are as a person and how your life experiences have shaped your academic and career goals. It allows you to showcase your unique qualities, experiences, and perspectives that make you a well-rounded and diverse candidate.

2. What should I include in my personal history essay?

Your personal history essay should include significant life events, challenges, achievements, and experiences that have influenced your academic, personal, and professional growth. You can also discuss your cultural background, values, and any obstacles you have overcome that have shaped your character and aspirations.

3. Is it necessary to have a specific format for a personal history essay?

There is no specific format for a personal history essay, but it should be well-organized and structured. You can choose to write it in a narrative form, highlighting important events and experiences, or you can use a more reflective approach, discussing how your experiences have impacted your personal and academic development. Whichever format you choose, make sure it effectively conveys your story to the admissions committee.

4. How long should a personal history essay be?

The length of a personal history essay can vary, but it is usually around 500-1000 words. It is important to follow the guidelines provided by the graduate program you are applying to and avoid exceeding the recommended word limit. Be concise and focus on the most significant aspects of your personal history.

5. Can I use personal history essays from previous applications for different grad schools?

It is not recommended to reuse personal history essays from previous applications for different grad schools. Each graduate program is looking for specific qualities and experiences in their applicants, and a generic essay may not effectively convey your fit for their program. It is best to tailor your essay to each program you are applying to and showcase why you are a strong candidate for that specific program.

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