Meditation Techniques for Achieving Spiritual Bliss - Robert

[RingoKid]

I'll PM you about that.

Share the knowledge. The more you try and hold onto something the more it will be taken away from you. Give freely and without expectation and you will receive in abundance.

The so-called Four Statements of Ch’an (attributed to Bodhidarma) reflect this simplicity:

1. No dependence on words and letters.
2. A special transmission outside the Scriptures [meaning, passing the experience to an aspirant through initiation by a realized teacher].
3. Direct pointing to the heart of man.
4. Seeing into one's nature and the attainment of the Buddhahood.

I too made up my own simple distillation of my beliefs and it is an ongoing process not disssimilar to Ch'an though I had never heard of his 4 statements until now nor have i had a realized treacher.

accept NOTHING as fact
question everything
determine your own truth
define your own reality

It's the NOTHING that is most interesting...

BTW I don't meditate. I create. I found it brings me in closer union to the creator. It's something to do with the likeness of the image i was made in.

so Les does one need a realized teacher to attain elightenment or can one evolve to enlightnment through streams of consciousness realized in unions of hereditary and cultural traditions ?

 

[PIT2]

Can you guys tell me some of the wisdom or knowledge you have gained through meditation? For instance I am curious about what clues it gives about reality, life/death, the soul, God, other beings, etc.

I was inspired by this thread yesterday and tried doing some meditation. Heres what happened:
-it felt like i was going forward through some barrier, while i was going through it my hair stood up, i felt tingling sensations and my eyes started twitching rapidly
-when i went through it i felt calm, all the above symptoms stopped, my body felt warm

Is this normal? I thought it was pretty scary and didnt really dare go any further. Is there any danger to it at all?

 

[Royce]

nor have i had a realized treacher.
so Les does one need a realized teacher to attain elightenment or can one evolve to enlightnment through streams of consciousness realized in unions of hereditary and cultural traditions ?

"When the student is ready the teacher will come."

I have found this to be true a numberof times. One of the surprising things about it is that I have immediately recognized the teacher even if it is a program on radio or TV.

accept NOTHING as fact
question everything
determine your own truth
define your own reality

This is basically what I do; however, reality is being defined for me as I meditate.

 

[Les Sleeth]

Share the knowledge. The more you try and hold onto something the more it will be taken away from you. Give freely and without expectation and you will receive in abundance.

It's not about holding onto something for myself. I decided not to discuss my personal choice on this issue in public, or talk about it with anyone who feels they are unable to honor my decision if I confide in them. I won't even discuss it in private unless I am convinced someone is interested on their own, and asks me. My view is that the format here at PF is about objective discussion of philosophical issues, and not a place for proselytizing. I fear I have already gone too far in insisting union meditation is most effective.

I too made up my own simple distillation of my beliefs and it is an ongoing process not disssimilar to Ch'an though I had never heard of his 4 statements until now nor have i had a realized treacher.

accept NOTHING as fact
question everything
determine your own truth
define your own reality

It's the NOTHING that is most interesting...

I am not putting down your philosophy when I say that the statements you listed there are nothing like Ch'an.

The original focus of Ch'an was meditation and achieving something daily Royce mentioned, satori, which is a brightening and opening that consciousness experiences after a successful union meditation. The objective was to try to maintain that experience throughout the day and, in some monasteries, to return to meditation at least once more before the day was through. Another aspect was the interaction with the teacher. After being intiated into the meditation methods and helped to have one's first experience by the teacher, something that took place in monastic life was the correction of attitudes and beliefs which might interfer with achieving union daily.

The four statements of Ch'an are a commitment an initiate makes to enter into this sort of practice. So as I said, your personal philosophy might be a good one, but it isn't anything like committing to an inner practice taught by a realized soul.

BTW I don't meditate. I create. I found it brings me in closer union to the creator. It's something to do with the likeness of the image i was made in.

Creating is great, but I am not sure if it makes one more like the creator. Hemingway was creative but killed himself. Mozart was creative, but rather self-absorbed. In fact, lots of creative people are not all that happy or enlightened, they just have talent.

Yet I think I know what you mean, I enjoy the creative process myself. My wife accuses me of being "insanely" creative (and she means it like it's an obsession). :tongue2: She's an accountant, so maybe in contrast to her . . . (just kidding sweetie :!) ) My comment would be that creating is good, and union meditation is good, but they are two completely different things.

so Les does one need a realized teacher to attain elightenment or can one evolve to enlightnment through streams of consciousness realized in unions of hereditary and cultural traditions ?

My opinion is not the majority view. Right now people are learning from books, self-proclaimed "masters," adult education classes, making it up themselves as they go . . . Before I chose someone to teach me, I went through all that myself, and lots of psychedelic drugs as well. Looking back I can say most of it taught me something, but none of it was getting me where I wanted to go fast enough. I sensed at the rate I was going I'd die before achieving realization. Then I heard about "union" or "samadhi" meditation, and that the original practice was sort of a secret still kept alive in India by what I referred to as "preservationists" in a post above. I decided I wanted to learn that, and so began researching how.

After studying the history of enlightenment and teachers of it, I decided a real teacher was a certain way. One of those ways was, they wouldn't charge money. From the Buddha and Jesus to Nanak and the Baal Shem Tov, all had lived on donations. A second thing, but it was just my personal requirement, was that I didn't want to be required to join a group, or be required to "believe" anything; bad experiences with religion as a kid made me extremely resistant to that. I just wanted to be taught the methods of union, and be allowed to rely on the teacher however I wanted to. Third, I felt certain that a teacher had to have realized himself because if you study the history, you can see the presense of the teacher has a very powerful effect on students. Also, interaction with the teacher was a common theme. Why should this be necessary? Now after so much practice I have a theory about that.

If you look at my last post to Pavel in the thread "What is Consciousness," I included a diagram of what consciousness looks like to me. It is a picture completely inspired by what I have experienced in meditation. If you read what I wrote him about where one is centered in one's own consciousness, I claim for most people it is in the peripheral areas of consciousness. I believe thinking and other mental activities, along with sense and emotional experience, take place on the periphery of consciousness. Yet I have found there is a place inside, at the very center of consciousness, which is absolutely and utterly still. If you touch it dead center with your attention, it will slow the mind and eventually bring it to a halt; if you can keep your quiet attention there, it will suck you in completely for awhile, and leave you all bright, open, and happy afterwards.

What I believe is that that center spot is where a true teacher, of the caliber of the Buddha anyway, is always inwardly situated. This is how I believe the term "perfect" became associated with such teachers (i.e., perfectly centered and always there). Now what happens when you are taught the union meditation methods by someone perfectly centered? Well, your openness to the teacher allows a sort of intutive connection to be made that centers the student (this is what was meant by "mind-to-mind transmission" in Ch'an), and then when the union techniques are taught in conjunction with that centering, they end up being pointed right at the experience.

What an advantage! I can say with 100% honesty that opening up to being shown the spot, and the right methods for getting back to it, was the best decision I ever made.

So to answer your question, is a realized teacher necessary? I think so, but I know most people tell me they are doing just fine on their own. Even though when they talk it doesn't sound like they have gotten very far like that, who am I to judge what "progress" is? I just know I would not be content with the achievement they've managed.

 

[Les Sleeth]

Can you guys tell me some of the wisdom or knowledge you have gained through meditation? For instance I am curious about what clues it gives about reality, life/death, the soul, God, other beings, etc.

I was inspired by this thread yesterday and tried doing some meditation. Heres what happened:
-it felt like i was going forward through some barrier, while i was going through it my hair stood up, i felt tingling sensations and my eyes started twitching rapidly
-when i went through it i felt calm, all the above symptoms stopped, my body felt warm

Is this normal? I thought it was pretty scary and didnt really dare go any further. Is there any danger to it at all?

I can't help but ask if you were sitting on a electric blanket that was shorting out.

But to give a serious answer, it sounds like you touched a good spot inside. The part of you that felt like a barrier and made your eyes twitch, is the part of you that normally is in control. You caught it by surprise, and slipped past it. In the future it will get more difficult to get past that barrier because it wants to stay in control. The fact that you felt calm and warm afterwards is a good sign you really did slip past into a more open place. If you practice the correct way and with devotion, then a day will come when you can sit down and be in the experience within minutes.

I have to admit that for the first 15 years of my practice I was a stubborn student. I had managed to have a little success with Zen mediation before being taught by someone who really knew how to achieve union. My ego and pride kept me holding on some to my own ideas. Because of that I fought that barrier you spoke of for hours every day (I was a very determined meditator), trying to get past it, only occasionally achieving full union.

Then one day I woke up and just gave up all my own concepts, and fully accepted what I was taught. Now I can say with complete honesty that it takes me about one minute to silence my mind, about five minutes to get close to union (which is a pretty good experience itself), and another ten minutes to slip into union. I never thought I would ever achieve that, but now it is mine and one of my most cherished possessions (me!).

 

[Royce]

I can only say that while using different terminology my experience fully supports and is completely compatible with Les'. I would say yes a teacher is needed at least as a guide when beginning but will soon no longer be needed which any good teach will point out almost at once.
Also one must face the fact the entering into this is a long term commitment and is in a way fatally dangerous to your present self. You will be changed and changed drastically and you old bound up self will fall away to never be again. Your ego and present self will no longer be in control and they do not give up this control easily. I have experience fear and reluctance but learned to step through the portal despite this. It is and was worth it as I, like Les was and am fully committed

 

[Canute]

Can you guys tell me some of the wisdom or knowledge you have gained through meditation? For instance I am curious about what clues it gives about reality, life/death, the soul, God, other beings, etc.

Meditation (introspection, contemplation, whatever), has the potential to reveal the essential nature of reality. It is often considered to be a 'soft' discipline, in the sense that it can make one a better person, a more relaxed person, a more centered person, a happier person and so on. Yes it does, or at least can, have this effect. But it is more than this. When Lao-Tsu writes 'Knowing the ancient beginnings is the essence of Tao' he is saying that it is possible to know how universes come into existence, and why. Inevitably you'll have to make up your own mind about this, but it's been a commonplace assertion among practitioners over the last couple of millenia, and still is.

 

[graffix]

It is and was worth it as I, like Les was and am fully committed

Ok, for those who have meditated for longer than a year I have great respect for. I do believe in having a teacher and one day I really should do that and get over my stubborness (like someone else wrote).

I consider myself a beginner and what I'm trying to recommend is an alternative method if you find it just hard to keep meditating everyday, and find yourself some how skipping your routine. This technique has worked for me, actually made me look forward to my meditation time. It's to play some music. Not just any music (obviously) but one specifically designed to help you meditate. Now the traditionalists will come down hard on this idea I'm sure, and maybe also the people whomay not enjoy my taste in music, and I'm pretty much ready for the criticism but here it is:While that's downloading I can tell you what it is exactly. It's an electronic intrumental song about 12 minutes long. Instrumental for the obvious reason that any lyric will be a distraction. One of the first things that happen when meditating is your brain goes from beta waves to alpha waves.. and eventually theta waves at our deepest levels of meditation. The alpha waves are 8 to 12 cps (cycles per second) and I'm theorizing that hearing music of a specific BPM can help the brain to slow its cps. Our heart rates are usually 60 to 70 when meditating and I believe that's another thing that we can influence by music. Basically a sonification/sound design experiment. Please try it and tell me how it goes.

 

[Royce]

Ihave also heard of people using white noise, static really to help them meditate. It was all the rage years ago. Anything which does not distract and cannot be focused on or does not allow one to get carried away with will work.

 

[TENYEARS]

I have been practicing mediation for about 5 years now. I find that it relaxes my mind and helps me think better but I am interested in transcendental meditation. I find it impossible to clear my mind of all thought and I have yet to attain the blissful, spiritual feeling that is said to come with a quieted mind.

I have read a book on meditation but have never been instructed on how to do it by an individual. How can I achieve the "no thought" experience of bliss which I have heard so much about? I know meditation is a purely subjective experience but is there some books I can read or some video or audio tapes? I do not have the time or resources to hang out with monks in the himalayas.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Robert

So you want a blissful experience? LoL Go watch TV, read a book, talk on the forum, there are a host of rushes out there go get one. If you are chasing a high you chase delusion or you live in it.

For me I do not like mediation, it seemed pointless and yet for some it may be the key but for most it is delusion as the same for those who supposedly search for knowledge but do nothing but collect facts failing to see the interconnectivity of all the facts. For me I don't consider it to be a mediation but I suppose it is, it is a single mindedness upon a subject. In the past it was, god, gravity, matter, original sin, where did matter come from or the energy that moves it, is this all there is, what is my mind, and a host of others. You address these questions like an animal circling it's prey, you attack it like water and must be relentless for if you do not answer them you must walk in the fog and not know your direction. What stands in front behind or underneath for you know nothing. A fate worse than death. If you attack in this way if you stand and let nothing stand in your way you may find truth. For you must fight the worst enemy you will ever find in all of your existence. This is the most evil cunning, distracting, deluding, individual you will ever come in contact with. That will be ... yourself. Are you really ready for such a battle? Do you think it is your choice or is it?

 

[Les Sleeth]

So you want a blissful experience? LoL Go watch TV, read a book, talk on the forum, there are a host of rushes out there go get one. If you are chasing a high you chase delusion or you live in it.

I suppose you are suggesting listening to you as an alternative.

For me I do not like mediation, it seemed pointless and yet for some it may be the key but for most it is delusion as the same for those who supposedly search for knowledge but do nothing but collect facts failing to see the interconnectivity of all the facts.

Lol, so somehow you figured out you are qualified to speak about it anyway.

For me I don't consider it to be a mediation but I suppose it is, it is a single mindedness upon a subject. In the past it was, god, gravity, matter, original sin, where did matter come from or the energy that moves it, is this all there is, what is my mind, and a host of others.

You suppose? If you don't know what you are talking about, then why are you posting?

You address these questions like an animal circling it's prey, you attack it like water and must be relentless for if you do not answer them you must walk in the fog and not know your direction. What stands in front behind or underneath for you know nothing.

How do you know what he does and doesn't know?

A fate worse than death. If you attack in this way if you stand and let nothing stand in your way you may find truth. For you must fight the worst enemy you will ever find in all of your existence. This is the most evil cunning, distracting, deluding, individual you will ever come in contact with. That will be ... yourself. Are you really ready for such a battle? Do you think it is your choice or is it?

What did he attack? He simply asked questions. You are just trying to act enlightened, and hope to find people stupid enough to bow down before you as a master or something more. Give it up. Talking like you are channeling Ramtha has already been done. I suspect what you need is a site called "people without a cult to join," or something similar.

It's individuals behaving as you are who make intelligent people completely write off the possibility that there really may be something more to creation than appearances. If you really want to serve God, then knock off the bullsh*t messiah routine, get real, and act like a human being instead of some spirit out in space.

 

[TENYEARS]

Les, I am not knocking meditation only the desire to do it for an absolute blissful experience. If one goes for truth maybe you will have bliss. The universe usually gives you the next thing down from which you ask and some times less unless you do not settle. The world already chases bliss. That is what has caused all the madness in the world. If you must mediate. Do it to clear your mind to create a blank space of clarity with the intent to see what is. In this space truth and more will be found.

Les, I ascribe to nothing and my words come from my experience. I speak from there becasue that is what I know. The enemy I speak of will lull you to sleep. This enemy hides in the recesses of you mind, you must become a warrior to battle it. This is not some thing outside yourself. This thing is far more powerful than all the the things of the universe combined. For this thing is of you and not separate from yourself. When you face it and defeat it only then can a human being truly understand what it is to be human. Then and only then will things happen. Then again this is my way, what do I know. Lol Lul

 

[Les Sleeth]

Les, I am not knocking meditation only the desire to do it for an absolute blissful experience. If one goes for truth maybe you will have bliss. The universe usually gives you the next thing down from which you ask and some times less unless you do not settle. The world already chases bliss. That is what has caused all the madness in the world. If you must mediate. Do it to clear your mind to create a blank space of clarity with the intent to see what is. In this space truth and more will be found.

Les, I ascribe to nothing and my words come from my experience. I speak from there becasue that is what I know. The enemy I speak of will lull you to sleep. This enemy hides in the recesses of you mind, you must become a warrior to battle it. This is not some thing outside yourself. This thing is far more powerful than all the the things of the universe combined. For this thing is of you and not separate from yourself. When you face it and defeat it only then can a human being truly understand what it is to be human. Then and only then will things happen. Then again this is my way, what do I know. Lol Lul

Alright, you must have figured out sincerity melts me pretty quick, but here's the thing.

You are born, you live, you have ordinary experiences, and then you have experience outside "normal" for you. However, if you don't study the history of human experience, how do you know just how special your experience is?

But let's say it is special. The next question becomes, how do you communicate it? Do you talk about it in such a way that it makes everyone think you are a space case?

Communication is quite an art. Just because you have an insight, no matter how profound, doesn't mean others will be able to recognize it. You have to design your communication approach for where peope are.

Don't assume because you have some insight into the "truth" that everyone should just automatically make extra effort to understand you. No way. It is just the opposite in fact. People relying on "normal" expect someone outside that to do all the work to help them understand why they shouldn't just stay with the norm.

A genuine, sincere feeling is a good thing. But flakey, nonsensical, space-case, out-in-left-field communication both discredits you and reflects badly on the subject you are trying to represent.

 

[TENYEARS]

Les, I don't want them to understand me, I want them to understand the truth if I want them to do anything at all. If they find the truth it will open them to the words of others but only because they found it in themselves. My explanations are useless I found that out many years ago when the experiences first came upon me. Each person is a lock and every lock is a little different, you must look them over speak to them understand them and then and only then if it is ment to be will they understand. One can't save the whole world because much of the world is not starving, but you can feed the hungry when you have food to give and your paths cross.

 

[phoenixthoth]

Les, I don't want them to understand me, I want them to understand the truth if I want them to do anything at all. If they find the truth it will open them to the words of others but only because they found it in themselves. My explanations are useless I found that out many years ago when the experiences first came upon me. Each person is a lock and every lock is a little different, you must look them over speak to them understand them and then and only then if it is ment to be will they understand. One can't save the whole world because much of the world is not starving, but you can feed the hungry when you have food to give and your paths cross.

Ok. So now OUR paths have crossed. What food do we have for each other?

 

[DJmaux]

I experience the same paranoia. What I find completely gets rid of it as long as you don't smoke to much is the correct dose of alcohol. Drink at least 8 units of alcohol and it takes the edge right off. But a little advice make sure you drink the alcohol slowly at the start especialy stronger forms of alcohol as if you drink to fast in the first 15 minuites the alcohol become less relaxing and to intense. Just drink real slow for 15 minuites (2 units or so at most) then speed up so you drink say 6 units in 5-10 minuites then smoke your weed. It works wonders for me! Best to always leave at least 2 days before drinking again for health reasons and for the fact that alcohol doesn't have the same effect if you drink it the following day.

 

[DJmaux]

That post was meant for the guy who smokes weed and gets paranoid BTW !

 

[Les Sleeth]

Les, I don't want them to understand me,

You don't see a problem with that? Why even attempt any sort of communication if you don't want understanding?

I want them to understand the truth if I want them to do anything at all.

But then you say that. You are supposedly representing the "truth," so if they don't understand you, how are they going to understand the truth?

If they find the truth it will open them to the words of others but only because they found it in themselves.

What is the truth? Do you think it is ideas and words? I can say the exact same words as you do. Would you like me to start a thread imitating your style? I bet could do it better than you. But why should anyone just buy into someone acting profound without any meat in the explanations? Only mindless sheep would go for that, and you aren't going to find many of those here at PF.

My explanations are useless I found that out many years ago when the experiences first came upon me. Each person is a lock and every lock is a little different, you must look them over speak to them understand them and then and only then if it is ment to be will they understand.

I don't suppose you can see you are claiming something without justifying it, and how at a philosophy forum that isn't proper. Say someone starts a thread asking what love is. One person reasons step by step so that others understand his explanation. Then you come along and say something like "I am realized, I know the truth, so accept what I say." Well, if you were at the meeting hall with a cult following listening, then you wouldn't have to justify your views. But here at a philosophy forum, you can't assume the position of knowing the truth without making your case. Just saying you know doesn't mean anybody is going to buy it, especially when you seem incapable of making sense.

One can't save the whole world because much of the world is not starving, but you can feed the hungry when you have food to give and your paths cross.

You know, I've read your stuff for quite awhile without saying much. But when you start talking about meditation clearly talking out of the posterior section of your body . . . then you cross the line. I'd suggest sticking to utterances on things nobody knows or cares anything about if you don't want to be confronted.

 

[graffix]

For me I don't consider it to be a mediation but I suppose it is, it is a single mindedness upon a subject. In the past it was, god, gravity, matter, original sin, where did matter come from or the energy that moves it, is this all there is, what is my mind, and a host of others. You address these questions like an animal circling it's prey, you attack it like water and must be relentless for if you do not answer them you must walk in the fog and not know your direction. What stands in front behind or underneath for you know nothing. A fate worse than death. If you attack in this way if you stand and let nothing stand in your way you may find truth. For you must fight the worst enemy you will ever find in all of your existence. This is the most evil cunning, distracting, deluding, individual you will ever come in contact with. That will be ... yourself. Are you really ready for such a battle? Do you think it is your choice or is it?

It sounds nice to contemplate these things, but this is not meditation. There are certain physcial conditions (breathing speed, heartrate, brain waves) that a body goes through while in meditation that has evidence of having many health benefits. I would be wary to accept that your act of contemplation would have any. I too, used to not think so highly of meditation, and looking back, can say that back then, I just didn't 'get it.' There's nothing that can make you 'get it.' My only hint that I can provide is that as much as you think your contemplation seems to take you somewhere higher, the whole idea of even acquiring this knowledge is still an attachment to your ego (your self) since you are still considering these questions and the answers you acquire as your own. Giving into everything (Zen) and the universal one-ness and giving in completely is what meditation is IMHO.

 

[TENYEARS]

Lol...

If a person is thirsty for truth they will find it. Every morsel will be a prize of gold. They will know it when they see it and their instincts will take them there. You assume much because I do not post piles of writing. I am not here for the writing of a thesis.

 

[Les Sleeth]

Lol...

If a person is thirsty for truth they will find it. Every morsel will be a prize of gold. They will know it when they see it and their instincts will take them there. You assume much because I do not post piles of writing. I am not here for the writing of a thesis.

. . . or making sense.

 

[Fliption]

. . . or making sense.

Lol

 

[stallion]

I have been practicing mediation for about 5 years now. I find that it relaxes my mind and helps me think better but I am interested in transcendental meditation. I find it impossible to clear my mind of all thought and I have yet to attain the blissful, spiritual feeling that is said to come with a quieted mind.

I have read a book on meditation but have never been instructed on how to do it by an individual. How can I achieve the "no thought" experience of bliss which I have heard so much about? I know meditation is a purely subjective experience but is there some books I can read or some video or audio tapes? I do not have the time or resources to hang out with monks in the himalayas.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Robert

The practice you seek is called shikantaza. It is a zen buddhist word meaning
to just sit. It is not meditation for one does not think, or concentrate on a
sound or any visual images. One just sits...

Remember what the old buddha said...practice every day no vacation...

 

[Chronologic]

. . . or making sense.

do you have any links, references or resources that will teach me how to to samadhi meditation or union meditation?

 

[Royce]

Try: http://www.fhu.com/ - Roy Masters, The Foundation of Human Understanding.
Click on "Click here to Begin"
Next page click on "Begin Download"
Toward the bottom of the next page Select "Exercise"

Its an audio file that you can save and/or burn to a CD and play on any MP3 player. It may help you to get strated. It did me and I later used the breathing method of breathing in through my nose and out my mouth using my diaphram or belly breathing while noticing the air coming in and down and then out. As my mind would drift off I just brought it back to the moment and to noticing my breating.

 

[sd01g]

I recommend active, thought-focused meditation. The goal is to

optimise brain activity with increased glucose level, increased

pulse and breathing rate. Start by eating something like honey

or something containing sugar or dextrose. Then start jumping on

a small trampoline-type jumper placed in the middle of a surround

sound audio system. Listen to any kind of music you enjoy at a

level that is loud enough to stimulate. Then, while jumping, focus on a philosophical question such as 'what is the difference

between empty space and nothing.' Soon you should not hear the

music and and you will be unaware of time. With your focused and

energized brain optimised, you with be amazed at what you will

find. If nothing else, it is less expensive than most drugs and

at the least, you will get a little exercise.