Exploring Non-Rocket Based Atmospherical Launches

  • Thread starter deathil93
  • Start date
In summary, the conversation discusses various non-rocket based methods for launching spacecraft into space, such as air launch, electromagnetic rails, hybrid rockets, and beamed-powered propulsion. The possibility of using ion thrusters in both atmosphere and outer space is also mentioned. The conversation also delves into alternative rocket technologies, including SpaceX's reusable rocket plan and the potential of a floating launch platform near the equator. The pros and cons of different launch systems are debated, with mentions of cost, payload limitations, and safety precautions. Ultimately, the conversation concludes that there is no definitive proof that any one method is more cost-effective than others, but the Orion capsule is seen as a highly versatile and reusable option for manned missions.
  • #1
deathil93
2
0
Hey guys,

I'm looking into the various spacecraft propulsion methods and I was wondering if there is any concept or theory for a non-rocket based atmospherical launch, besides air launch, electromagnetic rails, hybrid rockets/engines etcetra...


Thanks :)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Welcome to PF, Deathil93.
You know, the "etcetra" (sic) in your post pretty much eliminates any alternatives.
 
  • #3
Danger said:
Welcome to PF, Deathil93.
You know, the "etcetra" (sic) in your post pretty much eliminates any alternatives.
Yeah I didn't put the question correctly. I mean, are there any non-rocket launch concepts excluding structure aided launch such as the magnetic rails or space lift or air launch. Basicaly a non-rocket engine that you slap onto the craft and it flies off to space.

Another question, can Ion thrusters, such as the VASIMR and MPDT variants, be adapted to be used in both the atmosphere and outer space?
 
Last edited:
  • #4
I don't think ion thrusters of any sort could be used unless you found a way to make them particularly high thrust (and even then I'm not sure if there wouldn't be safety issues).

Beamed-powered propulsion is a possibility: in this system a beam of light or even a particle beam shot from the ground (powered from a ground based system) to the payload to propel a payload without carrying it's own fuel or propulsion. As for "slapping propulsion on and sending it to space" it's going to have to be some sort of rocket because once you are in high-atmosphere you've got negligible atmosphere to use for any kind of air-breathing engine though as you mention in your OP there are http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html [Broken]. More efficient than a chemical rocket could be some form of nuclear rocket such as nuclear thermal or nuclear salt-water (not really advisable if you don't want to spray radioactive particles throughout the atmosphere).

Lastly a very different proposal could be something like a skyhook, space fountain or space elevator.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #5
You've also got to consider your payload. Do you want to launch a lot of mass? You'll need a lot of propulsion. Do you want to launch humans? You'll need to limit acceleration yet maintain thrust long enough to reach your desired velocity. What's the stuff made of? Is it going to be able to return to Earth, or is it a one-time deal.
Where do you want it to go? LEO? Geo? How quickly, etc.

Different approaches have their varied strengths and weaknesses. It just so happens that with today's technology, rockets are best at both keeping humans alive, and lifting payloads at an acceptable or plausible (what you might call) payload:craft ratio.
 
  • #6
On the subject of rockets and alternative ways to launch I'd be very interested to see if SpaceX can pull off their reusable rocket plan (I don't mean to go off topic but if you are looking for alternative ways to get into space you might be interested in future rocket technologies that may be far different to today):

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #7
Back in the 60's & early 70's Gerald Bull experimented with launching packages into orbit with a giant cannon. He demonstrated that he could attain enough energy for the task, but could not control the orbit. Packages were small, and back in those days satellites were big. So it was not a viable concept. He then spent a number of years skirting the law and specialized in military applications. He built a research center on the US/Canada border, hoping to exploit the most convenient laws of both countries. Ended up building the giant “Babylon Gun” in Iraq.

I suspect that a modern light gas gun could provide a projectile with an equivalent amount of energy, but it is no more practical than the Bull design. Current efforts by the US Navy to develop a weaponized rail gun may lead to the ability to impart enough energy to a projectile to put it into orbit. If so, we would be able to overcome Bull’s flight control problems of the 1960’s. The rail gun was evaluated as a possible means of launch in the 1950’s. The conclusion was that it was a viable idea, but only if we could find enough power to run it. At the time, that would have equaled about half the power consumption of a city the size of Chicago. But a medium sized gas turbine could handle the task today.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #8
As long as we are off topic:

The Space Shuttle proved that a reusable launch system is a whole lot more expensive than an expendable system. Certainly, we could make vast improvements to what we did with the Space Shuttle, but it would still be more expensive because we have also made great improvements in expendable systems that greatly reduce the cost.

What I see as a very viable idea is something like the Pegasus system, which some of the current private companies have copied and pretended like they invented it. Carry it as high as practical in an airplane, release it, and let expendable solids do the rest. Expendable solids are very cheap compared to all other options, and an airplane ride hardly costs anything while imparting a substantial part of the energy required to the vehicle.

Of course, a manned system requires the ability to return safely; but I’m betting that the Orion capsule will always be orders of magnitude cheaper than any of the other proposals that I’ve seen in the press, and of course the Orion is reusable. It is also highly versatile and easily adaptable to many different types of missions.

The single most practical thing we can do to minimize cost is to learn from the Sea Launch program. Build a floating launch platform and launch near the equator due south of Hawaii in an area far removed from ship traffic. Eliminates billions of dollars worth of safety precautions required when launch near populated areas.
 
  • #9
There is no proof the shuttle proved more expensive because there is nothing else that has the capability it does.

It would have to be compared to something of the same capability.
 
  • #10
HowlerMonkey said:
There is no proof the shuttle proved more expensive because there is nothing else that has the capability it does.

It would have to be compared to something of the same capability.
That depends, what capabilities are you referring to?

In terms of cost to orbit:
Criticism of the Space Shuttle program (wiki) said:
Space Shuttle incremental per-pound launch costs ultimately turned out to be considerably higher than those of expendable launchers: by 2011, the incremental cost per flight of the Space Shuttle was estimated at $450 million, or $18,000 per kilogram to low Earth orbit (LEO). By comparison, Russian Proton expendable launchers, still largely based on the design that dates back to 1965, are said to cost as little as $110 million, or around $5,000/kg to LEO. When all design and maintenance costs are taken into account, the final cost of the Space Shuttle program, averaged over all missions and adjusted for inflation, was estimated to come out to $1.5 billion per launch, or $60,000/kg to LEO. This should be contrasted with the originally envisioned costs of $118 per pound of payload in 1972 dollars ($1,400/kg, adjusting for inflation to 2011)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Space_Shuttle_program

Another thing to consider is whether or not the space shuttle delivered on its promise. Rather than being a cheap and quick way to get to orbit frequently (IIRC a shuttle was meant to be able to perform 50+ flights per year) it proved to be incredibly expensive with rare launches. Obviously what's done is done and there are good economic and technological reasons for why the shuttle didn't meet its goals. However the question becomes if we can learn anything from the shuttle program about whether or not attempting something else would have been better e.g. what would NASA be like now if instead of funding the shuttle program it had funded something like Nova.
 
  • #11
Putting people on a cargo litter greatly increases cost. Worse in the case of the SS is that processing tasks were serial not parallel. All proposed lifters fix both problems and will be much cheaper.
 

1. What is a non-rocket based atmospherical launch?

A non-rocket based atmospherical launch is a method of launching spacecraft or other objects into space without using traditional rockets. This can include technologies such as air-breathing engines, electromagnetic launchers, and space elevators.

2. Why explore non-rocket based atmospherical launches?

Exploring non-rocket based atmospherical launches can open up new possibilities for space exploration, as well as reduce the cost and environmental impact of traditional rocket launches. It also allows for a wider range of payload sizes and destinations.

3. What are the challenges of non-rocket based atmospherical launches?

One of the main challenges is developing and perfecting the technology, as many of these methods are still in the early stages of development. Another challenge is ensuring safety and reliability, as well as navigating through various regulatory and legal issues.

4. What are some examples of non-rocket based atmospherical launches?

Some examples include the use of scramjet engines, which can reach extremely high speeds by using oxygen from the atmosphere for combustion. Another example is a space elevator, which uses a cable attached to Earth's surface to transport objects into space.

5. How does a non-rocket based atmospherical launch differ from a traditional rocket launch?

A traditional rocket launch uses chemical reactions to produce thrust and propel the spacecraft into space. A non-rocket based atmospherical launch, on the other hand, utilizes other methods such as air propulsion or electromagnetic force to achieve the same goal. This can result in cost savings and increased efficiency.

Similar threads

  • Aerospace Engineering
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • Aerospace Engineering
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • Aerospace Engineering
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Aerospace Engineering
2
Replies
45
Views
9K
  • Atomic and Condensed Matter
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
5
Views
979
Back
Top