Nxmod(1) is a discrete subset of [0,1] iff x is a rational?

In summary, the conversation discusses how to prove that n\theta mod(1) is a discrete subset of [0,1] if and only if theta is rational. Various attempts at a solution are discussed, including using compactness and dividing [0,1] into intervals. The conversation ultimately concludes that there must be an accumulation point in the interval, proving the statement.
  • #1
Silversonic
130
1

Homework Statement



Let [itex] \theta \in [0,1] [/itex] and [itex] n \in \mathbb{Z} [/itex]. Let [itex] n\theta mod(1) [/itex] denote [itex] n\theta [/itex] minus the integer part. Show [itex] n \theta mod(1) [/itex] is a discrete subset of [0,1] if and only if theta is rational.

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm having a bit of trouble with the "only if" part of the statement. The "if" part of the statement is simple. If theta is rational, then the subset is finite (because [itex] n \theta mod(1) [/itex] will repeat itself once [itex] n [/itex] is equal to or larger than [itex] p [/itex], where [itex] \theta = q/p [/itex]). Since it is a finite subset, it is discrete.

But the only if part? Assume that it is a discrete subset, I need to show this is irrational. I'm having trouble with that. If I could show there was a surjective map from [itex] n\theta mod(1) [/itex], theta being irrational, to the subset [0,1] then that would prove it. Since no point would be isolated in that case, and the set wouldn't be discrete. I can't seem to get anywhere with that, though.

I know that [itex] n \theta mod (1) [/itex], for theta irrational, is an infinite set (not that this proves discreteness), so maybe I could go from there? It's infinite, because if it were not, then we would have that [itex] k\theta mod(1) [/itex] and [itex] n\theta mod (1) [/itex] would be mapped on to the same number, for different integers k and n.

i.e.

[itex] k\theta = p + r [/itex]
[itex] n\theta = q + r [/itex]

p,q are integers and r is the "remainder part".

equating shows

[itex] \theta = (p-q)/(k-n) [/itex]

Contradicting irrationality.

Maybe I could go somewhere with that fact that it's an infinite set? I haven't managed to though.
 
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  • #2
Silversonic said:

Homework Statement



Let [itex] \theta \in [0,1] [/itex] and [itex] n \in \mathbb{Z} [/itex]. Let [itex] n\theta mod(1) [/itex] denote [itex] n\theta [/itex] minus the integer part. Show [itex] n \theta mod(1) [/itex] is a discrete subset of [0,1] if and only if theta is rational.


The Attempt at a Solution



I'm having a bit of trouble with the "only if" part of the statement. The "if" part of the statement is simple. If theta is rational, then the subset is finite (because [itex] n \theta mod(1) [/itex] will repeat itself once [itex] n [/itex] is equal to or larger than [itex] p [/itex], where [itex] \theta = q/p [/itex]). Since it is a finite subset, it is discrete.

But the only if part? Assume that it is a discrete subset, I need to show this is irrational. I'm having trouble with that. If I could show there was a surjective map from [itex] n\theta mod(1) [/itex], theta being irrational, to the subset [0,1] then that would prove it. Since no point would be isolated in that case, and the set wouldn't be discrete. I can't seem to get anywhere with that, though.

I know that [itex] n \theta mod (1) [/itex], for theta irrational, is an infinite set (not that this proves discreteness), so maybe I could go from there? It's infinite, because if it were not, then we would have that [itex] k\theta mod(1) [/itex] and [itex] n\theta mod (1) [/itex] would be mapped on to the same number, for different integers k and n.

i.e.

[itex] k\theta = p + r [/itex]
[itex] n\theta = q + r [/itex]

p,q are integers and r is the "remainder part".

equating shows

[itex] \theta = (p-q)/(k-n) [/itex]

Contradicting irrationality.

Maybe I could go somewhere with that fact that it's an infinite set? I haven't managed to though.

Do you know that [0,1] is compact? If you have an infinite number of points there must be a limit point.
 
  • #3
Dick said:
Do you know that [0,1] is compact? If you have an infinite number of points there must be a limit point.

Checking wikipedia quickly, "If one chooses an infinite number of distinct points in the unit interval, then there must be some accumulation point in that interval". I guess that would prove it. Compactness is not something I've dealt with before (I think it's relevant to metric spaces, a module I did not choose). The fact that my notes said this was meant to be an "easy proof" threw me off a bit though, it didn't seem like it would take such a result in order to prove it.

Is there any other way? If not, thanks. That will do.
 
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  • #4
Silversonic said:
Checking wikipedia quickly, "If one chooses an infinite number of distinct points in the unit interval, then there must be some accumulation point in that interval". I guess that would prove it. Compactness is not something I've dealt with before (I think it's relevant to metric spaces, a module I did not choose). The fact that my notes said this was meant to be an "
easy proof throw me off a bit though, it didn't seem like it would take such a result in order to prove it.

Is there any other way? If not, thanks. That will do.

There's a less abstract way. Take any N>0. Divide [0,1] up into N intervals of length 1/N. Since there are an infinite number of points there must be an interval [k/N,(k+1)/N] that contains at least two points. Think about their difference. It's less that 1/N, right? So?
 
Last edited:

1. What is Nxmod(1)?

Nxmod(1) is a mathematical notation that represents the set of all numbers that result from taking any integer multiple of x and then finding the remainder after dividing by 1.

2. How is Nxmod(1) related to [0,1]?

Nxmod(1) is a discrete subset of [0,1] because it only contains numbers that are between 0 and 1, including 0 and 1 themselves.

3. What is a discrete subset?

A discrete subset is a set of values that are distinct and separate from each other, with no numbers in between them. In the case of Nxmod(1), the numbers are separated by a distance of 1.

4. Why is x required to be a rational number?

If x is not a rational number, then the set Nxmod(1) would not be discrete because there would be an infinite number of numbers between each element. Only rational numbers ensure a discrete set.

5. How is this concept used in mathematics?

Nxmod(1) is commonly used in number theory and algebra, as well as in modular arithmetic and cryptography. It also has applications in computer science and coding theory.

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