Do Leading Scientists' Beliefs on God Influence Society's Views?

[BlackVision]

I'm sure all of us already know that the vast majority of scientists do not profess a belief in a god. Here are statistics among NAS scientists on their thoughts on god:

Personal belief: 7%
Personal disbelief: 72.2%
Doubt or agnosticism: 20.8%

So you have 72.2% of scientists that are atheist. 20.8% of scientists that are agnostic. Biologists had the lowest rate of belief at 5.5% and mathematicians had the highest rate of belief at 14.3%.

Leuba attributed the higher level of disbelief and doubt among "greater" scientists to their "superior knowledge, understanding, and experience"

Similarly, Oxford University scientist Peter Atkins commented on our 1996 survey, "You clearly can be a scientist and have religious beliefs.

Source: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

 

[Kerrie]

monique...feel free to kick it to me or delete :)

 

[Loren Booda]

To think that guys like these created the atom bomb, that minorities make up a very small proportion of their ranks, and that knowledge itself correlates poorly with belief!

 

[Njorl]

It has been my personal experience with the many scientists I've met that while they have much less belief in God, they have much more belief in people.

Njorl

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

That's really neat. According to definition I'd classify myself as Agnostic. Coolness. :)

 

[Robert Zaleski]

If the majority is wrong, they'll be a legion of out of work scientist's in Hell and platoon of overworked scientist's in Heaven.

 

[Moonbear]

I wonder how the question was phrased when they conducted the survey. Among the scientists I work with, I think the vast majority are non-religious, but not necessarily non-believers. I would have predicted the number who are agnostic to be higher than non-believers. Though, I do agree from experience that few scientists believe completely in a god. Blind faith isn't very compatible with scientific method.

 

[enigma]

Also note that those statistics are only for members of the NAS

 

[Moonbear]

Thanks for pointing that out enigma. I hadn't gotten around to following the link earlier.

Here's a quote from that link:
"In 1996, we repeated Leuba's 1914 survey and reported our results in Nature [3]. We found little change from 1914 for American scientists generally, with 60.7% expressing disbelief or doubt. This year, we closely imitated the second phase of Leuba's 1914 survey to gauge belief among "greater" scientists, and find the rate of belief lower than ever — a mere 7% of respondents."

These numbers better reflect what my own experience is with the scientists I know. Of course National Academy members don't believe in God, they believe they ARE God! (Only kidding if any National Academy members are reading :-) )

 

[Loren Booda]

I would like to ask those polled what they are certain of.

 

[Coolmac]

To think that guys like these created the atom bomb, that minorities make up a very small proportion of their ranks, and that knowledge itself correlates poorly with belief!

Actually the main scientist who created the atom bomb was Oppenheimer who was in fact a jew. He had to overcome many prejudices to attain the respect of his peers because of his religion. So while he wasn't a minority exactly (since at that time many jews had in fact made it into the scientific community) he did have to overcome prejudices due to his religious belief.


I think to automatically assume that because people do not believe that they are to be trusted less is rather biased I think. Remember athiests have more to lose when they die, it final.

 

[BlackVision]

Remember athiests have more to lose when they die, it final.

If my friends and I stated that if you don't believe that Nintendo is the greatest invention ever created, that when you die, you will spend eternity in hell. And you don't believe it, would you have more to lose?

Superstitions and logical minds don't mix. Period. And believing in superstitions means you already lost.

 

[Coolmac]

True, at least from my (an athiests) point of view. I'm sure that people who believe in a higher power will claim that one can believe without it being a superstition that infringes upon their logical thought process.

The point was, an athiest has more to lose by dying, at least as far as I can see. Death means the end of my existence, which is pretty damn big, at least for me. The insinuation that lack of belief is a worrying thing in a scientist while bringing up atom bombs kind of got me agitated. ;)

To paraphrase an article I once read about the scientists who helped create the atom bomb.

"After the bomb was created many of the scientists lamented their involvement, yet during the project they were motivated by the excitement of the scientific and technological challenge that transcended any ethical or social considerations"

 

[Coolmac]

...
Superstitions and logical minds don't mix. Period. And believing in superstitions means you already lost.

What if the scientist involved believes in a god that started it all, yet has no input on the universe now. This god was behind the initial creation of the universe and all its rules, yet from that point onwards never ever intervened. That scientist is not an athiest, some might call him an agnostic, but his belief may be too strong to classified as even that. One could only say he believes.

In my life I have met many religious people who are capable of thinking logically without their religion interfering. I have also met one or two athiests who's lack of belief was bordering on the fanatical, to the point where their athiesm was no better than any other superstition.

 

[selfAdjoint]

What if the scientist involved believes in a god that started it all, yet has no input on the universe now. This god was behind the initial creation of the universe and all its rules, yet from that point onwards never ever intervened. That scientist is not an athiest, some might call him an agnostic, but his belief may be too strong to classified as even that. One could only say he believes.

This is pretty much what many of the founders of the US believed - the "clockmaker god" who makes the clock but then let's it run without fiddling with it. This belief is called Deism.

 

[hitssquad]

Deism

This is pretty much what many of the founders of the US believed - the "clockmaker god" who makes the clock but then let's it run without fiddling with it. This belief is called Deism.

The M-W Unabridged 3.0 says, "Yes."

• Main Entry: de·ism
  Pronunciation: 'dE,izðm
  Function: noun
  Inflected Form: -s
  Usage: sometimes capitalized
  Etymology: French déisme, from Latin deus god + French -isme -ism — more at DEITY
  
  : a rationalistic movement of the 17th and 18th centuries whose adherents generally subscribed to a natural religion based on human reason and morality, on the belief in one God who after creating the world and the laws governing it refrained from interfering with the operation of those laws, and on the rejection of every kind of supernatural intervention in human affairs

 

[Ebolamonk3y]

Dirac surely did...

I think Pauli said something about God and Dirac like this "If I understand Dirac correctly, his meaning is this: there is no God, and Dirac is his Prophet".

 

[Loren Booda]

The larger the ego, the lesser the god.

 

[BlackVision]

The larger the ego, the lesser the god.

I consider this more accurate:

The more intelligence, the lesser the god. The more intelligence, the larger the ego.

I don't consider ego and lack of belief in god to have any relation to each other whatsoever. But I do consider both to have relation to intelligence.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't know. I think I more often see an inverse relationship between ego and intelligence. It's much easier to think you know everything before you've learned enough to know just how much you don't know!

 

[Ebolamonk3y]

Dirac>God in his ego?

 

[shadowman]

It has been my personal experience with the many scientists I've met that while they have much less belief in God, they have much more belief in people.

Njorl

yes, but is is wise to believe in the creation over the creator? If you look at a chair and believe it exists, but say there is no such thing as a chair maker, isn't that kind of foolish? You may say that is not a fair thing for me to say because you don't believe in my God. Let me ask you this question though, if I did not believe in you, does that mean you don't exsist?

shadowman

 

[shadowman]

The M-W Unabridged 3.0 says, "Yes."

• Main Entry: de·ism
  Pronunciation: 'dE,izðm
  Function: noun
  Inflected Form: -s
  Usage: sometimes capitalized
  Etymology: French déisme, from Latin deus god + French -isme -ism — more at DEITY
  
  : a rationalistic movement of the 17th and 18th centuries whose adherents generally subscribed to a natural religion based on human reason and morality, on the belief in one God who after creating the world and the laws governing it refrained from interfering with the operation of those laws, and on the rejection of every kind of supernatural intervention in human affairs

this is false, because if you believe in God, you must adhere to his word, the Bible. and in the Bible it clearly states that God sustains his creation.

 

[Coolmac]

this is false, because if you believe in God, you must adhere to his word, the Bible. and in the Bible it clearly states that God sustains his creation.

I believe that there are people out there who believe in a "God" that isn't that same one that's in YOUR bible.

The point is a deist would believe in a God, but would also believe that the bible/koran/veda/whatever is at least, for the most part, incorrect.

 

[Njorl]

yes, but is is wise to believe in the creation over the creator? If you look at a chair and believe it exists, but say there is no such thing as a chair maker, isn't that kind of foolish? You may say that is not a fair thing for me to say because you don't believe in my God. Let me ask you this question though, if I did not believe in you, does that mean you don't exsist?

shadowman

I have seen chairs made. I have seen the manufacturing process in general. I have not seen universes made. I am not yet willing to concede that making a chair, and making a universe are the same thing. That is actually beside the point though.

By having faith in humanity, I am not saying that scientists believe humanity exists. I am saying that scientists have faith in humanity's capabilities. By setting aside God as the cause of the world's situation, those with faith in humanity take up the burden of morality. Those with faith in God need take no responsibility for things that they term "God's will". Those of us with faith in humanity don't have it so easy.

Njorl

 

[Oochy]

If the majority is wrong, they'll be a legion of out of work scientist's in Hell and platoon of overworked scientist's in Heaven.

Amen. ;) Sounds like I mayu have my work cut out for me. ;)

This is pretty much what many of the founders of the US believed - the "clockmaker god" who makes the clock but then let's it run without fiddling with it. This belief is called Deism.

Incorrect. If you've ever read their personal journals and other wirtings, you'd find this to be false. I don't know of one that was a Deist, they all had STRONG religious convictions.

Jefferson at the end of his life turned to Christianity, for a good portion of his life he was not a very religious person and might have adopted a Deist like belief.

 

[Loren Booda]

If the Unitarians of their day (as many of our early leaders in the US) were like those of present, they looked upon God in a scientific and rational fashion, if they believed in God at all.

 

[p-brane]

Sometimes you want to ask the question " if there is no god then why is everyone talking about it?"

 

[selfAdjoint]

If the majority is wrong, they'll be a legion of out of work scientist's in Hell and platoon of overworked scientist's in Heaven.

Amen. ;) Sounds like I mayu have my work cut out for me. ;)

This is pretty much what many of the founders of the US believed - the "clockmaker god" who makes the clock but then let's it run without fiddling with it. This belief is called Deism.

Incorrect. If you've ever read their personal journals and other wirtings, you'd find this to be false. I don't know of one that was a Deist, they all had STRONG religious convictions.

Jefferson at the end of his life turned to Christianity, for a good portion of his life he was not a very religious person and might have adopted a Deist like belief.

I have read their writings. What is your citation for the statement that Jefferson became a Christian? Even Washington was not a "real" Christian, according to his pastor!

 

[fbsthreads]

voltaire said it best when he wrote:

"if god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

it really gets into the mind of people who 'came up' with gods.

 

[Njorl]

I just heard a good qute, but forgot where it came from. It was something like:

"Madam, I merely believe in one fewer god than you do. When you discover why you discarded all of the others, you will know why I discarded yours."

I wish I remembered who said it.

 

[fbsthreads]

"Madam, I merely believe in one fewer god than you do. When you discover why you discarded all of the others, you will know why I discarded yours."

that is a good one.

http://www.quotegarden.com/religion.html

-attributes it to Stephen Roberts.

 

[Loren Booda]

BlackVision

Leuba attributed the higher level of disbelief and doubt among "greater" scientists to their "superior knowledge, understanding, and experience"

However, they have yet to consistantly and honestly disprove the existence of God, even within their own community. Also, might the NAS leadership when tapping is members encourage tacitly skepticism (a fundamental attitude for scientists) of God?

 

[BlackVision]

I just heard a good qute, but forgot where it came from. It was something like:

"Madam, I merely believe in one fewer god than you do. When you discover why you discarded all of the others, you will know why I discarded yours."

I wish I remembered who said it.

That's a quote by Stephen Roberts.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen Roberts

 

[BlackVision]

Oh I noticed that fbsthreads already stated it was Stephen Roberts. Carry on then :)