FBI thwarts terrorist bombing attempt, in Portland, Oregon

[Ivan Seeking]

Whewwww! That was a close one, literally!

The FBI thwarted an attempted terrorist bombing in Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square before the city's annual tree-lighting Friday night, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Oregon.

A Corvallis man, thinking he was going to ignite a bomb, drove a van to the corner of the square at Southwest Yamhill Street and Sixth Avenue and attempted to detonate it.

However, the supposed explosive was a dummy that FBI operatives supplied to him..

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_thwarts_terrorist_bombing.html

 

[WhoWee]

Whewwww! That was a close one, literally!


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_thwarts_terrorist_bombing.html

"A Corvallis man, thinking he was going to ignite a bomb, drove a van to the corner of the square at Southwest Yamhill Street and Sixth Avenue and attempted to detonate it.

However, the supposed explosive was a dummy that FBI operatives supplied to him, according to an affidavit in support of a criminal complaint signed Friday night by U.S. Magistrate Judge John V. Acosta. "

I have to wonder how many of these cases are on-going? While it makes sense that running the sting could lead to other members of a terror organization and that a suspect can't be arrested without evidence - it just doesn't give me a great deal of confidence that we are in fact safer.

I realize that "profiling" is a dirty word and that this has NOTHING to do with religious beliefs. But it sound like the FBI was attempting to get inside his head and understand "why" (?) - maybe they gained something from the experience they can build on?

"The FBI operatives cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of his plan, noting that there would be many people, including children, at the event, and that Mohamud could abandon his plans at any time with no shame.

"You know there's going to be a lot of children there?" an FBI operative asked Mohamud. "You know there are going to be a lot of children there?"

Mohamud allegedly responded he was looking for a "huge mass that will ... be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays."
"

 

[Office_Shredder]

I think the cautioning is for the trial to avoid claims of entrapment

 

[Pengwuino]

From what I read, this wasn't even a close call. He was being fooled by the FBI for months. Thankfully it seems like a defense attorney won't be able to get away with the entrapment defense on this guy.

He even LOOKS evil! His eyebrows remind me of horns.

As for how often stuff like this happens, from my recollection back in the Bush years, a couple hundred plots were tracked every year. As much as people complain about the governments efforts to protect people... they do a pretty damn good job in the end.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

From what I read, this wasn't even a close call.

I meant geographically.

Yes, it seems the FBI was all over this one. Also, to the best of my knowledge there were no cavity searches performed on the citizens of Corvallis.

 

[OmCheeto]

One wonders where terrorists can hide when there is a world wide witch hunt for them:

27 Nov 2010
Saudi Arabia has arrested 149 suspects linked to al-Qaeda, who were planning attacks on government and security officials, as well as on journalists.

"During the past eight months ... 124 Saudis and the other 25 foreigners - have been arrested," General Mansur al-Turki, interior ministry spokesman, told reporters on Friday.

Foiled 'terror' plots in 2010
A timeline of major al-Qaeda-linked plots foiled by authorities in Western countries and their allies over the year.
27 Nov 2010 08:51 GMT

2010 has seen international security services foil several major plots to launch attacks that have been blamed on al-Qaeda. From New York to Paris, London to Riyadh, security forces have prevented attacks that could have left hundreds dead, sometimes more by luck than judgement. Here are some of the major ones:

November 27: A Somali-born teenager is arrested in the US for planning a car bomb attack on a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in the state of Oregon.

November 23: Ten people are detained by police in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany for allegedly plotting an attack in Belgium.

October 29: UK and Dubai authorities uncover bombs hidden in parcels sent from Yemen to the US. UK security forces say that had the device detonated, it could have blown the plane out of the sky. The plot sparks an international security alert and focuses international attention on Yemen for the second time in a year, following a December 2009 plot to blow up a transatlantic airliner.

October 28: US officials arrest a Pakistani-American for plotting a series of bomb attacks on Washington's subway system. Farooque Ahmed was arrested after a US court indicted him with plotted the attacks.

October 15: Swedish authorities charge two citizens of Somali origin with "planning terrorist crimes" in Somalia. The Swedes say they intercepted the two men while they were planning to travel to Somalia to become suicide bombers.

September 29: European spy agencies foil a plan to lauch Mumbai-style attacks on Britain, France and Germany. Intelligence agencies say that fighters based in Pakistan had been planning advanced attacks on European cities, but that they were not imminant when the plot was disrupted.

May 2: A car bomb is discovered in New York City's Time Square, prompting US police to evacuate thousands of people from the area. A manhunt was launched resulting in the arrest of Faisal Shahzad, a 30 year old Pakistani living in Connecticut. Shahzad told interrogators that he had been inspired by Anwar al-Awlaki, an American cleric living in Yemen. In October, Shahzad was sentenced to life in prison.

March 27: Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter, announces the arrest of more than 100 people suspected of plotting attacks on oil and security installations in the kingdom. The network was beleived to have links to al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, a Yemen based group.

March 10: An American woman is charged by US authorities for plotting to kill a Swedish cartoonist and trying to recruit fighters via the internet to carry out overseas attacks. Colleen LaRose, known as JihadJane is awaiting trial in US custody.

27 Nov 2010
Thousands of members of the Sufi community have staged a march in the Pakistani city of Lahore, calling on the government to do more to stop "terrorists" and Taliban influence in the country.

It came after leaders of the Muslim sect grouped under a council that aims to subdue what they call the growing "Talibanisation" of Pakistan.

Pakistani Sufis have stepped up their movement against fighters in the country after a series of attacks on their shrines.

To all my friends around the world; Keep up the pressure, to stop the madness.

Peace be unto you all.

 

[rootX]

I applaud their work in keeping people safe.

 

[mugaliens]

One wonders where terrorists can hide when there is a world wide witch hunt for them.

Your statement is oxymoronic, as the term "witch hunt" describes overzealous actions culminating in the capture, torture, and often death of people suspected of far worse actions than they've actually either committed or will commit.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, terrorism involves extreme actions which are far worse than most people realize.

Some people refuse to believe that anyone could do the things terrorists do, so they instead choose to believe (naievely) many of the facts about terrorism are simply made up.

I applaud their work in keeping people safe.

+1. I love the fact they gave this guy several chances to give it up and turn a new leaf, but he was hardened to the cause, even at the "tender" age of 17. Just about ready to step forth into life, and now the only life he'll ever know will be in a prison cell.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Some people refuse to believe that anyone could do the things terrorists do, so they instead choose to believe (naievely) many of the facts about terrorism are simply made up.

Who would that be? Given what we have seen since 9/10/01, it is hard to imagine anyone who doesn't recognize the dangers of terrorism.

People do disagree about what motivates terrorists - what role we played in creating this mess with our foreign policy - and how best to respond to the never-ending threat of terror without throwing out the Constitution, living like scared cats, and letting them win.

 

[CRGreathouse]

throwing out the Constitution, living like scared cats, and letting them win.

There seems to be very little opposition to that strategy.

 

[WhoWee]

Who would that be? Given what we have seen since 9/10/01, it is hard to imagine anyone who doesn't recognize the dangers of terrorism.

People do disagree about what motivates terrorists - what role we played in creating this mess with our foreign policy - and how best to respond to the never-ending threat of terror without throwing out the Constitution, living like scared cats, and letting them win.

I agree. However, I don't think it matters at this point how we got here (foreign policy). I honestly believe that if the US closed every military base outside the 50 states, brought every military person home, and kept the entire Navy and Air Force within 50 miles of our shores - terrorists would still want to blow us up (here and abroad). Again - IMO.

 

[OmCheeto]

Your statement is oxymoronic, as the term "witch hunt" describes overzealous actions culminating in the capture, torture, and often death of people suspected of far worse actions than they've actually either committed or will commit.

My sincerest apologies for the loose use of the term. I would also like to apologize to any Wicans we may have in our midst, along with fans of Harry Potter, Samantha Stevens, and of course, Glenda the good witch of the South(and her lesser known sister of the north). My use of the term 'witch', was intended to be interpreted in the original sense; "being possessed of the devil", or for those of you who are of non-deistic persuasions; "evil doers".

+1. I love the fact they gave this guy several chances to give it up and turn a new leaf, but he was hardened to the cause, even at the "tender" age of 17. Just about ready to step forth into life, and now the only life he'll ever know will be in a prison cell.

I've known a few sociopaths in my lifetime. Whether they are 17 or 70, they all belong in jail.

-----------------------------

ps. Given that the bomber in question targeted my city, and there were so many people at the gathering, I'm sure I would have known many more dead people now if the plot had not been averted.

I would also like to apologize for my continuous support and/or tolerance of the TSA measures, as, the last time I was groped properly, I had to pay good money for it.

 

[Proton Soup]

I think the cautioning is for the trial to avoid claims of entrapment

yeah, and i don't think this was close at all. I'm sure he had motive, but i find the capability of a 17-year-old kid to build a decent bomb out of much more than diet coke and Mentos a bit suspect. so that left the obvious tactic of going down to the bombs-R-us store and purchasing one. but who, other than FBI informants provide such services in the US?

i think as a juror, i'd want to see that he was actively seeking out sources, and not that the gov't was actively seeking out malcontents.

 

[WhoWee]

yeah, and i don't think this was close at all. I'm sure he had motive, but i find the capability of a 17-year-old kid to build a decent bomb out of much more than diet coke and Mentos a bit suspect. so that left the obvious tactic of going down to the bombs-R-us store and purchasing one. but who, other than FBI informants provide such services in the US?

I'm not sure what a "decent" bomb might be? In a crowded place, a can full of gasoline would be dangerous - at least to the people in close proximity. A full gas tank on an SUV or multiple fuel containers and some nails in the bed of a pick up could be devastating.

 

[Al68]

My sincerest apologies for the loose use of the term. I would also like to apologize to any Wicans we may have in our midst, along with fans of Harry Potter, Samantha Stevens, and of course, Glenda the good witch of the South(and her lesser known sister of the north).

Oh, come on now, you forgot my favorite: Jeannie.

 

[Office_Shredder]

I'm not sure what a "decent" bomb might be? In a crowded place, a can full of gasoline would be dangerous - at least to the people in close proximity. A full gas tank on an SUV or multiple fuel containers and some nails in the bed of a pick up could be devastating.

Gasoline doesn't automatically explode once lit on fire. It's harder than you're making it sound. As an example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6257194.stm

Someone tried exactly this in Scotland and it didn't explode

 

[BobG]

yeah, and i don't think this was close at all. I'm sure he had motive, but i find the capability of a 17-year-old kid to build a decent bomb out of much more than diet coke and Mentos a bit suspect. so that left the obvious tactic of going down to the bombs-R-us store and purchasing one. but who, other than FBI informants provide such services in the US?

i think as a juror, i'd want to see that he was actively seeking out sources, and not that the gov't was actively seeking out malcontents.

You mean like Hemant Lakhani? Bizarre story.

Muhammad Habib Rehman was a DEA informant in the 90's until they dropped him due to some of his help being unreliable and occasionally just plain bad. After 9/11, the FBI picked him up as an informant, seeing as how anyone with his language skills and contacts would be valuable in the war on terror - plus he already had experience as an informer.

Needing a terrorist to supply to the FBI, Rehman recruited the 70-year-old Lakhani, a clothing salesman whose business ventures had taken a turn for the worse (Rehman had done similar things before as a DEA informer, which resulted in them dropping him as an informant). When put in contact with FBI agents posing as terrorists, Lakhani claimed he could sell them 50 submarines, nuclear suitcase bombs, land mines, whatever they needed. The FBI terrorist impersonators finally requested some shoulder fired missiles to be used to shoot down airliners at the Newark airport.

Unfortunately, Lakhani had no more idea how to obtain shoulder fired missiles than the average person. After a year of asking Lakhani to deliver the missiles they requested, Rehman finally directed Lakhani to see if he could by the weapons from legitimate arms dealers in Russia. The requests from a US clothes salesman quickly got the attention of Russia's intelligence agency - the FSB. FSB agents stepped in as weapons salesmen impersonators, contacted Lakhani, and Lakhani claimed he wanted to buy 200 shoulder fired missiles.

It didn't take much investigation to find out Lakhani was intending to smuggle the missiles into the US. The FSB contacted the FBI only to find out Lakhani was the target of a sting and both agencies teamed up to complete the sting. The FSB agents eventually sold him one dummy missile which they shipped to the US as medical/dental equipment. Lakhani then sold the dummy missile to the FBI agents.

Fake suppliers, fake customers, fake missiles. Only one real person in the entire sting, and, to be honest, he wasn't that real either since there is no way he would have found weapons customers on his own, nor found missiles to sell on his own. For whatever reason, the 70-year-old man was more than willing to pretend to be a weapons smuggler with only a little prompting from Rehman.

All is well that ends well, however, and rest assured Lakhani was convicted and sentenced to 47 years. He'll be eligible for release in 2044, when he'll be 109 years old.

It wasn't exactly entrapment by government agencies, since both initially thought he was a real arms smuggler, but it shouldn't have taken either more than 10 minutes to figure out he'd never done anything remotely similar to this undertaking in his entire life and wouldn't have had a prayer of completing a real arms deal. It was more a rogue informant creating a crime that he could be paid for informing on than the FBI entrapping an innocent man.

 

[BobG]

Another example of paid informants generating terrorists for the government to arrest: The Pathetic Newburgh Four.

It's not that the victims of these stings don't deserve the consequences that come their way. But it's hardly legitimate to count these types of arrests as evidence that the government is keeping us safe from terrorism.

Part of the risks and costs of using paid informants is that informing on legitimate organized criminals is difficult and dangerous. There's always going to be a few that decide it's better business to grow their own criminals for harvesting.

I'm not quite sure what the appropriate thing to do with the guys 'harvested' is, but they're more fool's gold than a real treasure in a war on terror.

 

[Pattonias]

It makes since to me for the FBI to provide the equipment. All they have to prove is intent to harm and a willingness to physically act. I would much rather the FBI provide this guy with a "bomb" than for him to possibly cause harm by acquiring his own. It doesn't take much to make something go boom so I think the FBI is trying to avoid any unnecessary risk by letting the wanna-be bomber make a wanna-be WMD.

It saddens me because I honestly don't think I can empathize with this person or anyone else who is willing to detonate an explosive in a crowded group of innocent families. It just doesn't make since.

 

[CRGreathouse]

It's not that the victims of these stings don't deserve the consequences that come their way. But it's hardly legitimate to count these types of arrests as evidence that the government is keeping us safe from terrorism.

Excellent point.

 

[Newai]

Another example of paid informants generating terrorists for the government to arrest: The Pathetic Newburgh Four.

It's not that the victims of these stings don't deserve the consequences that come their way. But it's hardly legitimate to count these types of arrests as evidence that the government is keeping us safe from terrorism.

Part of the risks and costs of using paid informants is that informing on legitimate organized criminals is difficult and dangerous. There's always going to be a few that decide it's better business to grow their own criminals for harvesting.

I'm not quite sure what the appropriate thing to do with the guys 'harvested' is, but they're more fool's gold than a real treasure in a war on terror.

It being my impression that actual terrorist recruiters use the same tactics, this strategy smells legit. It this not how recruiting sometimes works?

 

[Gokul43201]

It being my impression that actual terrorist recruiters use the same tactics, this strategy smells legit. It this not how recruiting sometimes works?

You consider it legitimate for the FBI to use the same tactics are terrorist recruiters?

 

[Office_Shredder]

You consider it legitimate for the FBI to use the same tactics are terrorist recruiters?

You're suggesting they pose as terrorist recruiters by not acting like terrorist recruiters?

 

[mugaliens]

Who would that be? Given what we have seen since 9/10/01, it is hard to imagine anyone who doesn't recognize the dangers of terrorism.

While it may be difficult to imagine for those of us who accept the world as it is, it's nevertheless a reality for many people who prefer to live in bliss, emotionally and mentally distant from reality.

People do disagree about what motivates terrorists - what role we played in creating this mess with our foreign policy - and how best to respond to the never-ending threat of terror without throwing out the Constitution, living like scared cats, and letting them win.

Mostly they want attention and recognition of their cause.

 

[BobG]

You consider it legitimate for the FBI to use the same tactics are terrorist recruiters?

I don't know what's normal for terrorist stings, but unreliable informants is just one of the risks law enforcement officers run into for other types of crimes. Normally, an informant that's growing their own criminals for harvesting isn't kept as an informant for very long.

Generally, I'd be more impressed with the FBI buying real weapons from someone that knows how to smuggle weapons into the US or that has a real plan for a terrorist incident. The terrorists arrested in the US just don't seem to be very experienced (which is a good thing, actually).

 

[Gokul43201]

You're suggesting they pose as terrorist recruiters by not acting like terrorist recruiters?

Not exactly, but if you are asking me that, I must have misunderstood newai's post.

 

[WhoWee]

Generally, I'd be more impressed with the FBI buying real weapons from someone that knows how to smuggle weapons into the US or that has a real plan for a terrorist incident.QUOTE]

I agree.

 

[Newai]

You consider it legitimate for the FBI to use the same tactics are terrorist recruiters?

"Legit" was a poor choice. Office_Shredder has a better wording.