Exploring Career Options: ME vs. MET for Weapon Design

[Legendaryhero]

Hey guys, I'm a freshmen in Montana State University, and I have no clue which path I want to follow. I am currently enrolled into ME but I only have one semester under my belt so if I switch it won't be to much of a big deal...
I tried to talk to my advisor about this stuff but he tells me he's too busy and to come back at another time (I've tried 5 times now :grumpy:)
So, to my real question =P, Whats the main difference between ME and MET?
What would be better to go into for someone that wants to go into weapon design, such as working for the government to create bigger better weapons? And I'm not talking about only drafting and designing it using Pro-E ... I hate that crap. I like to be physical with my creations, I love to tinker with things to make them better and stronger. I have a passion for machines but not the whole drawing them out and all that jazz...
If you guys have any information for me that would be great, I'm not in Engineering for the money, I'm here to do what I love.
~James

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Well a mechanical engineering technology degree will be a mechanical drafter/technician. The job will depend on the company, but an MET is basically someone who works for an ME and knows somewhat generally what they are talking about, but doesn't have the in-depth math and physics skills to design something from conception.

If you want to design things from scratch, get an ME degree. If you want to design things in CAD based on an engineer's vision and put designs together get the MET degree. FWIW, an MET will also have a lower salary, and have fewer chances for advancement.

 

[FredGarvin]

In the couple of employers I have worked for that also employed METs, they were technicians and not thought of as engineers. That is not to say that they were not highly regarded for their skills, but they were not thought of as engineers. That included also salary and benefits as well as seniority. Take that for what you will.

 

[dr dodge]

I have to say, it is the unfortunate reality that technicians, even ones with lots of experience are looked at as "second rate". your career path is severly limited, as is your respect and salary. but what really gets under my skin (yes I am a tech) is when managers look at the green engineer as " a god of math, technology and science" (no disrespect ment) and the 30 year tech as just another brainless, knuckle draggin' hourly minion...(breathe, breathe must...not...rant... )

to have a successful career, you need to fill your bag with any shingle you can get before leaving school. don't fall in the trap, "well I can always go back"
you can, but its not easy, (and don't fall in love during your 2nd year...lol)
get your ME, EE, etc PLUS some sort of business or marketing. very few CEO's that are engineers, vs the number of marketers.

dr

 

[Mech_Engineer]

The environment a technician works in is also incompatible with many requirements of an engineering position, so it can be difficult to transition from a technical position to an engineering position.

Technicians live in a results-based world. If a design's hole is located in the wrong spot, you drill a new one. If you're missing a screw or a spring when assembling a design, you find one that works. If a drawing is incorrect, you find the correct dimension and move on. The goal of a technician's labor is a single assembled unit, and how you got there is essentially irrelevant as long as the finished product works.

An engineer on the other hand worry's about WHY all of those problems cropped up. If a hole is located incorrectly, look at the drawings, look at the tolerance analysis, find out what happened and fix it at the source. If a screw is missing, you look at the BOM and run through the requisitions to see how it fell through the cracks. If a drawing is incorrect, you fix the problem in the drawing and make sure that engineering document control releases a new revision of the drawing for manufacture. All of this work makes sure the next 100 items do not have the same problems as the first one. This is an accountability-based world where you're putting your signature on something that you checked it and are putting your professional reputation behind it. How you got there matters as much as anything else.

 

[dr dodge]

I should add one thing.
as a tech, I have gotten to go to some of the most amazing places in the world. I've tour'd most major aircraft mfg plants, many more than once
NASA's JPL, Redstone, Johnson, Glenn, Edwards, and many more
all in quest to satisfy the customer
there is NO FEELING like "ringing the bell" for the customer,
and then returning to my bench, tools and tech support line with the "conquering hero" song in your heart
that is true job satisfaction
you actually feel:
"BBBAD, BBAD, BBAD, BAD TO THE BONE"

lol

dr

 

[Im1the2king3]

I am in my Freshman year of college @ msu (midwestern state univ.) I feel the college is not right for me at this point in my life. I have grown up most of my life here and just need to get away for awhile. The only good thing about this college is its way cheap prices, but with that being said it seems a lot of teachers have an "i don't give a crap" attitude.
So i have been looking into colleges for next semester and sofar I really like UNT (univ. north texas) It is relatively inexpensive, but with all the degrees they offer no ME they have MET however so If I was to attend this college for a year and progress in the MET degree but also by using my ME syllabus and just finish off the basics (Im in calc. 2 and physics 2 already) but if i was too keep taking as many of the ME courses as I could at UNT then after a year there go to another school or maybe back to MSU to finish the ME degree (I am just really taking a liking to UNT...). Does anyone have any inputs or better ideas or if this is possible because I really want to be an ME, but need a break from my current university it just doesn't feel like the right place for me. Right now federal aid and scholarships are covering the majority of my cost that is why I can't just jump into a 60g private school that offers ME so I think UNT is very reasonable. Sorry for my poor wording I'm just wondering how I can go to UNT for at least a year and advance as far as I can in ME using a college with ME then transfer to that college to graduate(mainly if I am going up in colleges so I will have the chance to finance it better in the future).

 

[kairey]

I am currently in the MET program at Purdue University. I got a 3.9 in my first year. I am going to start a MET co-op next fall. I am taking summer classes this summer. But, I think I can go ME and be more successful. So my dilemma is the fact that I wasted a whole year of schooling, not to mention my parents money. And I'm a little scared that I won't make it through the ME curriculum. I am just really confused at this point. There are so many unknowns that make this choice a huge risk... :(

 

[dmatador]

In the summer I work for a manufacturer that makes fasteners and also some components for nuclear reactors (accumulators, control rod drives, etc.) and there is an MET employed there not thought of as a technician. Basically he uses his knowledge of machining and manufacturing to come up with prices for the costumer.

 

[kairey]

In the summer I work for a manufacturer that makes fasteners and also some components for nuclear reactors (accumulators, control rod drives, etc.) and there is an MET employed there not thought of as a technician. Basically he uses his knowledge of machining and manufacturing to come up with prices for the costumer.

Is he looked at for promotions? or is that as far as an MET degree will take someone? I really want to go into ME for the long term benefits.

 

[stewartcs]

Is he looked at for promotions? or is that as far as an MET degree will take someone? I really want to go into ME for the long term benefits.

I know a guy who is a VP of Engineering that has an Electronics Engineering Technology degree.

CS

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

Wow, I can't believe some of the negative comments on here regarding the MET degree. I have an MET degree from the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown that I received in 1993. I never worked as a "technician or draftsman", but did manage a few over the years. To assume that someone with an MET degree will not be able to get an Engineering job is flat out false. It's a bad stereotype that has cropped up over the years because a lot of programs are sub-par and lack the proper credentials to be solid, viable programs.

Many MET programs are very good and I will cite UPJ's as such. As I review my tests, I see that in their program I used the same circuits text as UC, the same thermo text as MIT, the same Statics and Strength of Materials texts as Purdue and a whole host of the classical "cloth bound" engineering texts used by lots of major universities around the country. I, for one, have never understood the high and mighty attitudes of some of the guys who get a straight ME degree and then talk down on the MET degree REGARDLESS of where it is from. I'd advise these types to take a look at the program before you make a blanket statement as such, because most likely you are off base. I'll also remind you that if a straight ME program and an MET program is using the same text but the ME program being at a LARGE university puts you in a classroom with 200 other people whilst the MET program places you in a smaller class setting...well, let's just say that you will get better service in the smaller setting.

"METs don't have the math skills"-Another blanket statement that is likely very false. Any good ME or MET program will require the same set of math skills and these are usually received in the first couple of years of any good program. You'll typically also be in there with Physics and other majors as well. This typically will include 2 or more calculus classes and a class in differential equations. In a good MET program you'll actually use that math to solve problems in classes like Finite Elements or Vibrations.

I have 15+ years in several Engineering/manufacturing companies. I have yet to meet one straight ME that I consider out of my league in terms of their ability to reason, solve problems, analyze or design. I have had one supervisor who felt it necessary to make comments about my degree, even though I also have an MBA from Xavier University and wasn't working as an Engineer for him. This same person ran manufacturing yet had a hard time telling me what welding process was used in the shop and furthermore admitted he didn't know the difference between MIG and TIG welding. WOW, how's that ME degree working for you these days?

Over the years I've worked with a lot of people. Ironic it is that some of the best designers I have ever worked with had no degree at all. You can't teach creativity, I'm convinced of that. I've also worked with a lot of MEs who thought high and mighty of themselves and I watched a straight ME guy design something on SoildWorks that passed all the stress analysis tests, but how ironic...he forgot to model the product how it was used in the real world and it had a major deflection based problem that required a last minute "band-aid" fix before it went to launch. This fix also added significant cost to the product. Noted individual also had an MBA but could not, under any circumstance, manage his way out of a paper bag. This had everything to do with a product launch that was 9+ months late and costs MANY thousands of dollars in lost margin contribution for a company who was already on the downward spiral. Remember guys, a lot of designs are deflection limited, not stress limited. I guess somewhere along the way people lose their common sense when they hang a degree on the wall.

Before you pass judgement on a person because they have an MET degree, I would urge you to take a look at the program they went through and in addition have a look at their work history and accomplishments. Just because someone graduated with a straight ME degree is NOT a guarantee they will be a brilliant problem solver, engineer, designer or even a technician for that matter. And just because someone has an MET degree certainly doesn't guarantee that they can't solve a differential equation or calculate an I value or plot the stress on a Mohr's circle. Additionally, many METs will take the FE exam and pass that with flying colours just like the ME guys can. UPJ happened to have a higher pass rate on the FE exam than a lot of straight ME programs did at the time I went there. Enough said.

One always has to prove him or her self in the real world and real world work experience with the degree is where the assessment on an individual must be made. If you're blaming your MET degree on your lack of getting a promotion or the pay increase you are after, I would urge you to take a look at your performance on the job before you curse your MET degree.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Please refer to the descriptions posted at ASME's website, they have a good comparison online which basically says what I summarized... I'm not degrading an MET degree, the two are functionally different in their application and purpose.

http://www.asme.org/Communities/Students/K12/Technology_Which_Path_Take.cfm"

Mechanical Engineer:

An innovator - one who is able to interweave a knowledge of advanced mathematics, the natural and engineering sciences, and engineering principles and practices with considerations of economic, social, environmental, and ethical issues to create new systems and products. The ME graduate can develop new procedures to advance the state of the art.

Mechanical Engineering Technology:

A doer or implementor - one who is able to apply a basic knowledge of mathematics, the natural and engineering sciences, current engineering practices, and an understanding of economic principles to the solution of design problems and to the operation or testing of engineering and manufacturing systems. The MET graduate can apply established procedures which utilize the current state of the art.

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

Do you suppose the descriptions on the ASME website were written by those who have a straight ME degree? As if to say the MET is not capable of pushing the state of the art. Again, another broad-brush approach to describing the two programs. How is it that an ME is stated as having higher math credentials than the MET when in many instances they take the same math courses? Are you aware of what is called the LCD?

A lot of ME guys do look down on METs...I have seen this. I can understand that some MET programs are garbage...and there are probably some straight ME programs which are also garbage. Again, it all gets back to how you apply yourself in the real world. A degree is just the starting point for a career, it is not the end-all by which a person will be judged as a superior performer. Have you ever given a review or received a review where the supervisor said "we like the fact that you have a degree from XX university, so therefore we are giving you a raise"...VERY unlikely in my opinion.

Is one supposed to read the ASME website and assume that you will automatically get a superior candidate with an ME degree vs an MET degree? How brilliant do you think anybody is straight out of a 4-year program anyway?

I think my ex-boss said it best when he said to me: "Imagine how smart this guys kids are going to be, he went to CMU and she's a med student". This was about a new employee who he just hired and had yet to even walk in the door. Stereotyping of any form is simply wrong, yet he systematically pushed 3 METs around like sub-par to his MEs, even though some of his MEs regularly performed more poorly than his METs. I'd laugh when he'd get up and draw a stress-strain curve in the middle of a meeting acting like none of us knew what it was. Palease.

Need I bring up some MEs lost their PE license over this mess:

http://ethics.tamu.edu/ethics/hyatt/hyatt1.htm

That's an example of a real world issue with registered PEs.

What you said was "Well a mechanical engineering technology degree will be a mechanical drafter/technician". A blanket statement like that will not get you anywhere and it's stereotypes like this that give people who completed a good program a bad name coming out of the gate. I've seen plenty of METs in high end design and development positions. 3 years out of my MET program I was a Product Line Engineer for a major high-speed packaging manufacturer and I have plenty of clean sheet new designs I could show you to back that up. Additionally, I have three US patents to my name.

I think you need to do some more research before you make such blanket statements about degrees in general. You might actually see the light in this situation if you do that. For your own benefit, before you stereotype METs as drafters and technicians why not do a little research on the subject with data to back those statements up? Where I went to school you always had to have some data to back up your theory. Or maybe they don't teach you that in your beloved ME programs? ;)

And remember, part of the correct answer always includes proper units.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

How is it that an ME is stated as having higher math credentials than the MET when in many instances they take the same math courses?

Can you post a link to an accredited MET program which includes as much math and physics as a standard ME program? If an MET program includes just as much course work as an ME program, there's no reason to call it an MET program in the first place, its just ME!

My understanding is that in general, MET programs are assocate's degree programs which are aimed at machinists, technicians, and technical designers/drafters. It's not an insult, I'm telling you what the degree is designed around...

A lot of ME guys do look down on METs...I have seen this. I can understand that some MET programs are garbage...and there are probably some straight ME programs which are also garbage. Again, it all gets back to how you apply yourself in the real world. A degree is just the starting point for a career, it is not the end-all by which a person will be judged as a superior performer.

I'm not looking down on anybody, the two degrees have different applications in parallel fields. The fact is that most companies won't hire a person with an associate's MET degree into an ME position, generally because most MET programs are lighter in math and physics. If you don't agree with this statement, feel free to post links to MET programs which include the same math and physics classes as an ME program from the same university.

Have you ever given a review or received a review where the supervisor said "we like the fact that you have a degree from XX university, so therefore we are giving you a raise"...VERY unlikely in my opinion.

What is the relevance to this thread? The OP asked what the difference between the two degrees is, and what you're basically saying is "there is no difference" which is not true.

Is one supposed to read the ASME website and assume that you will automatically get a superior candidate with an ME degree vs an MET degree? How brilliant do you think anybody is straight out of a 4-year program anyway?

Superior candidate for what position? Machinist, or R&D design engineer?

That's an example of a real world issue with registered PEs.

... and what does that have to do with the distinction between an ME and MET degree?

What you said was "Well a mechanical engineering technology degree will be a mechanical drafter/technician". A blanket statement like that will not get you anywhere and it's stereotypes like this that give people who completed a good program a bad name coming out of the gate. I've seen plenty of METs in high end design and development positions.

You're still not distinguishing between an ME and MET degree on the fundamental level. Why are they named differently at all? If an MET degree is the same thing as an ME degree, why are they named differently?

3 years out of my MET program I was a Product Line Engineer for a major high-speed packaging manufacturer and I have plenty of clean sheet new designs I could show you to back that up. Additionally, I have three US patents to my name.

Relevance?

I think you need to do some more research before you make such blanket statements about degrees in general.

From what I've seen, you're blanketing all ME's as stuck-up idiots, and all MET's are skilled engineers. All I'm pointing out is the difference in the curriculums and their target careers. I'm not trying to insult anybody.

You might actually see the light in this situation if you do that. For your own benefit, before you stereotype METs as drafters and technicians why not do a little research on the subject with data to back those statements up? Where I went to school you always had to have some data to back up your theory. Or maybe they don't teach you that in your beloved ME programs? ;)

Here, the ME and MET programs at Purdue University. I chose the 4-year MET program to keep things comparable, obviously there isn't much reason to compare an associate's degree to a bachelor's degree.

ME Curriculum: https://engineering.purdue.edu/ME/Academics/Undergraduate/index.html
Math: Differential Calc, Intergral Calc, Multivariate Calc, Linear Algebra, Ord Diff Eq, Partial Diff Eq
Physics: Modern Physics, Statics, Dynamics, Mech. of Matls, Struc & Prop of Matls
Technical: Elec & Optics, Lin. Circuit Anal, Measurements, System Mod. & Anal, Control Systems, Chemistry, Thermo I, Thermo II, Fluid Mechanics, Heat & Mass Transfer, several engineering design theory courses.


MET Curriculum: http://www.tech.purdue.edu/met/academics/undergraduate/curricula/met_bs.cfm
Math: Precalc, Calc for Technology I, Calc for Technology II
Physics: Materials and Processes I, Materials and Processes II, Applied Statics, Dynamics, General Physics I, General Physics II, Electricity fundamentals, Heat/Power, Fluid/Power, Applied Thermodynamics, Applied Fluid Mechanics.
Technical: Graphics Communications, Computational Analysis Tools in MET, Computer Analysis Tools for MET, Production Design and Specifications, Visual Programming, Controls and Instrumentation for Automation

Also from the Purdue website:

Graduates of the A.S. program accept jobs as laboratory technicians, engineering aides, plant maintenance staff, layout staff, production assistants and technical sales staff. With additional experience they can be promoted to positions such as industrial supervisors, machine and tool designers, technical buyers, production expediters and cost estimators. They also may elect to enter the B.S. program.

The B.S. program in mechanical engineering technology prepares graduates for positions in manufacturing and other technical industries. Graduates of this program fill a wide variety of industrial positions in manufacturing, production, supervision, plant operations, product development, routine design, technical sales and support, facilities engineering and other related industrial careers.

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

I never said the two were the same, what I did say is that many METs end up getting the same jobs as MEs do. How old are you and what is your industry experience? I'm 40 and have worked in the fields of die casting, design engineering, project engineering and product management with a focus on new product development. I've worked with both MEs and METs and I can assure you that in the practical world there is no appriciable difference in the quality a candidate brings to the table. In fact, I'd go out on the limb and state that the MET for a good university is a quality, practical minded graduate that can get in and get things done.

Your assessment that most MET programs are 2 year is again, False. UPJ doesn't offer a 2 year program and I will attach the following link so you can review the program:

http://www.upj.pitt.edu/2818/

If you take a look, you will see 3 calculus courses, a differential equation course, fluid mechanics, statics and strengths, dynamics, two thermo courses, materials science, heat transfer and vibrations...ALL mandatory.

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

When you make a statement like:

" Superior candidate for what position? Machinist, or R&D design engineer?"

This clearly shows me you have a strong bias towards thinking that the MET degree only gets you into a low level position and that's just not true. For the record I meant a design/engineering role. When people like you make blanket statements like that you tarnish a lot of others without having the facts to do so. Have you heard of the company CTC? I'll tell you straight up that they have hired UPJ graduates and in fact many of the guys worked there on engineering R&D projects whilst they studied at UPJ. We're not talking drafting and technicians here my friend, this is primarily a RESEARCH company that has a lot of government funding.

You and my ex-boss would work well together. He's just as negative as you are in this regard and probably more blind than you are. He's by far one of the most arrogant people I have ever worked with and quite frankly watching him make comments about METs was laughable. So misguided. I'd advise you to approach this subject with a much more open mind in the future.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

I never said the two were the same, what I did say is that many METs end up getting the same jobs as MEs do.

What in your opinion is the distinction between an ME and MET degree? There must be a reason two different degrees are provided. Also, why would you get an MET degree instead of an ME?

How old are you and what is your industry experience? I'm 40 and have worked in the fields of die casting, design engineering, project engineering and product management with a focus on new product development. I've worked with both MEs and METs and I can assure you that in the practical world there is no appriciable difference in the quality a candidate brings to the table.

It's irrelevant because my arguments are all coming from programs and organizations which offer this degree; I am not trying to establish myself as an authority on ME/MET degrees (clearly you are).

That being said, I work in the defence/nuclear operations, sensing and diagnostics industry. Where I work an MET degree is a 2-year degree a person gets to become a technician. I'm NOT bashing MET degrees, in my experience they are a lower-level (associate's) degree.

In fact, I'd go out on the limb and state that the MET for a good university is a quality, practical minded graduate that can get in and get things done.

That's fine, although its a generalization that is based on your experience and not on fact or a nationwide study on MET degrees. My statement is that the MET people I have worked with are excellent technicians, but people with associate's degrees are not hired into engineer positions at my company without significant experience and high-level manager approval.

Your assessment that most MET programs are 2 year is again, False. UPJ doesn't offer a 2 year program and I will attach the following link so you can review the program:

http://www.upj.pitt.edu/2818/

If you take a look, you will see 3 calculus courses, a differential equation course, fluid mechanics, statics and strengths, dynamics, two thermo courses, materials science, heat transfer and vibrations...ALL mandatory.

Why do they even call it an MET degree if the course load is the same as a mechanical engineer? Please refer to UPJ's description of the MET degree:

The philosophy of the Engineering Technology Division is applications oriented, utilizing current state-of-the-art techniques as opposed to theoretical development and/or modification of those techniques.

This description is in-line with what I have been describing, as well as the description ASME provides.

When you make a statement like:

" Superior candidate for what position? Machinist, or R&D design engineer?"

I was clarifying which stance you were taking. It seems to me that an MET is well-qualified to become a machinist for example, because they take classes dealing with advanced theory and operation of machining equipment which an ME typically does not. However an MET is typically not well-suited to a R&D engineering position because they are trained to utilize the state-of-the-art, rather than advance it. This is corroborated by ASME and UPJ.

I also notice that while the UPJ program is very strong in physics and math, it does not deal with any engineering-theory courses which deal with the engineering design process, requirements, documentation, and engineering ethics. This is in-line with UPJ's claim that MET is essentially a functional degree rather than a theoretical development one. No offense, it's just the facts and an important distinction.

This clearly shows me you have a strong bias towards thinking that the MET degree only gets you into a low level position and that's just not true. For the record I meant a design/engineering role.

It is dependent on the specific company and specific job description. Where I work, an ME degree is better suited for a design engineering role because even a "super MET" degree from UPJ does not cover engineering theory and practice, a critical component of my job description. This is backed up by ASME and UPJ.

When people like you make blanket statements like that you tarnish a lot of others without having the facts to do so.

I'm not out to tarnish anybody, I'm simply presenting the descriptions and claims given by recognized engineering organizations and universities. My statements are backed up by even the link you provided, although UPJ does provide more engineer-level math and physics than a typical MET program.

Have you heard of the company CTC? I'll tell you straight up that they have hired UPJ graduates and in fact many of the guys worked there on engineering R&D projects whilst they studied at UPJ. We're not talking drafting and technicians here my friend, this is primarily a RESEARCH company that has a lot of government funding.

So UPJ has a very strong MET program, that's great! I'm glad people are able to get good jobs they like after going to school for it. I wouldn't consider the UPJ program the "normal" MET degree however. It seems to me that most MET programs (especially associate's ones) offer curriculums which are less math-intensive, for people who don't like math.

You and my ex-boss would work well together. He's just as negative as you are in this regard and probably more blind than you are. He's by far one of the most arrogant people I have ever worked with and quite frankly watching him make comments about METs was laughable. So misguided. I'd advise you to approach this subject with a much more open mind in the future.

Be that as it may, if a high school senior is looking for a major and wants to be a design engineer "when he or she grows up," the best bet is an ME degree. Even if the UPJ MET program is so close to an ME degree it's hard to understand why they have the two different programs at all... it doesn't cover engineering theory and practice.

 

[Shaun_W]

[PLAIN]http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4339461/They-said-I-could-be-anything-So-I-became-a-mechanical-engineering-technologist.jpg?imageSize=Large&generatorName=PTSD-Clarinet-Boy

 

[Shaun_W]

In all seriousness, if you want to become an engineer then a proper engineering degree is the way to go about it.

A mechanical engineering technology degree sounds like what we'd call an an HNC or HND over here, given the roles it trains you for.

The thing is, engineers couldn't exist without technicians who can implement and manufacture their designs, carry out maintenance and and repairs. It pisses me off when arrogant engineering graduates think they're the **** because their degree has lots of maths in it and that they're above technicians. Thankfully industry here does a good job of knocking down pretentious graduates a step.

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

Some good observations in your posts, but you still keep harping on this Associates degree and making statements that the MET programs are basically geared towards Associates degrees, technicians and machinists. Even after I show you a stellar program with the label of "MET". I don't know anybody who would get an MET degree to become a machinist...maybe a test engineer but not a machinist.

Also, your age and experience are totally under question in my opinion (take that for what it's worth to you) because real world experience is what counts. Have you designed and launched new products? If so please tell this forum what those are and give us links to any patents you hold or similar career accomplishments that you felt your degree enabled you to make above and beyond what those with MET degrees have done. I have no issues telling my experiences with my degree and where it got me on my career path. I'm now to this forum, so excuse me if this scan does not come up easily or you have to search for it (I guess they didn't teach me well enough in MET school and I was way too busy playing band with that frumpy looking gal in the last post ;) "This one time, at band camp"...sorry I had to.

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30696&stc=1&d=1292515211

From this scan I have given you a clear indication of my career since 1994. Nowhere on any of those business cards do you see the words "Technician" or "Engineering Technologist" or the like. I'm not knocking those roles but the assumption that you can't get "there" with an MET degree is flatout false. Also, let's face the facts, if you want to get a much higher paying job on the business side of Engineering or on the business side of Product Management or Product Marketing you would be well advised to get an anvanced degree, typically the MBA works well with the ME or MET degree. I will tell you without giving specific numbers that my pay in 2009 was 5 times what I earned in 1994 and that more than hedges out inflation over that same time period. I did go back and get an MBA from Xavier in 1999 and that was a big help in securing the higher level jobs I have had over the last 10 years. Just in case the post didn't work, I'll give you a listing:

Engineer-Die Casting
Associate Product Engineer-Packaging Machinery
Product Line Engineer-Packaging Machinery
Product Manager-Material Handling
Product Director-Material Handling
Director of Global Product Management-Medical Equipment
Business Owner-Automotive

Your statements clearly stereotype the MET as some 2 year associates degree program from the corner community college and herein resides the problem in the engineering community, that being people giving their graduates a degree that isn't even close to something you would get from a recognized university like Purdue, UC or Pitt. Where the degree is from is as important as what the degree is in. In addition, so is making sure the program has the recognized accredidation. So my only point here is this; Make sure you review the university before you make a blanket statement about someone's degree and what it enables them to do.

Also, I'd like for you to note that an R&D position or a design engineer's position is as much about innovation and creativity as it is about theory. I don't care where anybody went to school or what degree the have...the bottom line is some people have the element of creativity for these roles and some don't. Like I mentioned earlier, some of the best designers I worked with had no degree at all and had the ability to design a machine or product from nothing at all...just an idea. With time and experience most young, freshly groomed engineers quickly realize they won't use 85% of what they learned in school, BUT if they need to gear up and find some further information they can do so by going back through the theory presented in the texts they used in school. That holds true for the ME or the MET...assuming good programs on either side.

Also, should you be interested, I will include my US Patent numbers for inventions I have come up with over the years when I worked as an Engineer and Director in the Product Management roles...I pulled these straight off the resume for your viewing pleasure.

1. US Patent No. 6,446,416 Improved Vertical Insert Bucket for continuous and intermittent cartoner machines

2. US Patent No. 7,681,710 Modular Right Angle Transfer Device for material handling right angle transfer modules

3. US Patent Pending: Electro-Mechanical Independent Leg Ambulance Cot Application Pending

 

[Denurry]

Got so excited reading your arguments)) looks like you guys have real-life experience i want to ask you. My dream job would be to USE knowledge i occurred in school (in 1 or 2 years i want to do a degree) and CAD to design/develop systems/element/etc. The question is: should i do MET or ME? and why?

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

I believe either degree will work for what you want to do. If you want an applied design role (which is what most design roles are) the MET will be great. If you want to try and get into a "pure" R&D position, the ME will give you a slight advantage in the door, I won't deny that. Many employers really like the MET graduates and see them as more well rounded for most engineering roles in industry today.

I would urge you to closely study the university before you make a decision. You will find some programs a lot better than others on both sides of the fence and there will also be overlap and by that I mean an MET degree from a good school will likely be better than an ME degree from a lower caliber school. I firmly believe there will be more spread on the quality of education from MET to MET degree sicne a lot of the community colleges have jumped on that bandwagon over the years.

There is always the issue of those few rotten eggs that spread hear-say on the MET degree, but those are the same guys who will look closely at where you went to school and still find a way to make a negative comment.

Remember, the degree will just get your foot in the door...what keeps you there is your performance on the job. Nobody can hide behind their paperwork for very long.

 

[Denurry]

Thanks. Whats is "pure R&D position"? The one thing i care about is: am i going to have enough math/physics knowledge obtained at MET to be able to 1) innovate any kind of machinery from skratch (note: i am not suggesting to get a development role in a huge corporation, i just want to know how to do all that stuff) 2) learn math/physics in my own time to progress my understanding at the type of engineering i am going to be in?

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

By pure R&D I mean more of an academic type development of technologies...for example, investigating the rate of strain in the analysis of mechanical properties of materials, or developing computational fluid dynamics software, etc.

In terms of being able to design machinery from scratch, actually I think the MET might prepare you a little better for that, but really either degree clearly would work very well. When I worked at FKI, the guy who managed product development at the facility I worked in had an MET degree from UC. His boss had an ME degree from UK and was a PE in Kentucky.

Again, I still stress that there is as much about creativity and innovation in product development as there is theory. If you are going to sell a product to a customer, it has to have the feature sets those customers desire. Today, things like aesthetics, ease of maintenance, design for manufacture and assembly and the like are all very important to the customer. If you've ever turned a wrench you can seriously value having something that is easy to maintain. Very few engineering programs (ME or MET) can effectively teach the above...it comes with experience.

For the products I was responsible for over the years, I liked to start with a sketch (or get industrial designers involved up front)...then if there were new methods or technology to be applied, I would let the engineers move forward on investigating those technologies. This gives them something to do while the rest of the business planning phase is being completed. Then, once all the up front work is done, we could finalize the plans and exectute to the plans and the schedule.

Trust me, I know from experience, simply turning Engineers loose on a development project without a plan is a recipe for disaster. You have to have your market research done and close the loop on what features you need to really make a dramatic impression on your customer base. After all, you want them to buy the product so you can make money. Automobiles are a good example...styling is as important as performance.

There is a lot more to developing a product than just putting some drawings together and throwing it out there for sale. That may have worked 15 years ago before the global economy was as it is today...but you have to be on your game today when you launch a new product. Also consider that product life cycles are becoming very short as compared to just 10 or 15 years ago.

 

[Denurry]

My dream job would be a defence contractor(raytheon, Northrop Grumman) or aerospace (boeing, lockheed) since i am not even a US resident i am probably going to be able to work only for Boeings commercial aircraft programms. In your oppinion, do you think they (boeing) would rather hire a MET or ME graduate? the other good thing about MET i find is it takes 1 year less to complete comparing to ME. Which would mean that i could start my career yearlier. Is it possible though to take some more courses part-time to be able to get ME? in case if i really need it for promotion or to increase my payrate.
The other idea that i have is to do Bachelor of Science majoring in Mathematics or Physics...How many of them do defence contractors or private firms hire? and in case if you are aware, what do they do? becouse i have no idea)))

 

[Herr-Kuhn]

I can't say what those specific company representatives think of the MET degree. You should do some more research on your own to find that answer out.

As for credit transfer, when I finished in 1993 I know it would have been possible to get an ME degree through transfer, but there was no real value to me at that time.

Back then the METs were forced to have to wait 7 years to take the PE test (I think). I'm not sure how that has changed these days.

In the field of engineering I'd say you'll have to move into management to make a lot more money. Once that happens your job will be more about guiding others and hitting business objectives (profits, schedules, etc.) and less about doing actual engineering work.

 

[MECHster]

My dream job would be a defence contractor(raytheon, Northrop Grumman) or aerospace (boeing, lockheed) since i am not even a US resident i am probably going to be able to work only for Boeings commercial aircraft programms. In your oppinion, do you think they (boeing) would rather hire a MET or ME graduate? the other good thing about MET i find is it takes 1 year less to complete comparing to ME. Which would mean that i could start my career yearlier. Is it possible though to take some more courses part-time to be able to get ME? in case if i really need it for promotion or to increase my payrate.
The other idea that i have is to do Bachelor of Science majoring in Mathematics or Physics...How many of them do defence contractors or private firms hire? and in case if you are aware, what do they do? becouse i have no idea)))

Go for the ME for sure. GENERALLY ME degrees have more potential and are viewed as better than an MET, for engineering. I know Mr. Kuhn disagrees but that is the general opinion at least from where I live (Canada). The community college in my city offers a 3-year program that is much easier than the 4-year ME degree (I have a friend in the MET program).

 

[Denurry]

OK. Thnx

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Some good observations in your posts, but you still keep harping on this Associates degree and making statements that the MET programs are basically geared towards Associates degrees, technicians and machinists.

I stated that has been my experience, and I have backed it up with descriptions of the degree from sites such as ASME.org and University of Pittsburg Johnstown.

Even after I show you a stellar program with the label of "MET". I don't know anybody who would get an MET degree to become a machinist...maybe a test engineer but not a machinist.

One "stellar" program for MET's does not redefine the whole industry, sorry.

Also, your age and experience are totally under question in my opinion (take that for what it's worth to you).

Nope, it's all irrelevant sorry. As I said before I'm not establishing myself as an expert on the state of MET programs nationwide. I'm simply stating my opinion, and backing it up with facts and quotes from industry experts like ASME.

You also don't understand the public nature of this forum, and the kind of personal data mining that goes on in popular websites such as this. You should just give up on posting your business cards and personal patents, it's bad mojo around here...

Your statements clearly stereotype the MET as some 2 year associates degree program from the corner community college and herein resides the problem in the engineering community, that being people giving their graduates a degree that isn't even close to something you would get from a recognized university like Purdue, UC or Pitt.

Irrelevant.

Where the degree is from is as important as what the degree is in. In addition, so is making sure the program has the recognized accredidation. So my only point here is this; Make sure you review the university before you make a blanket statement about someone's degree and what it enables them to do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove in this thread any more, other than self-validation. The original post asked what the difference was between an ME and MET degree; it has been described ad-nauseam.

Also, I'd like for you to note that an R&D position or a design engineer's position is as much about innovation and creativity as it is about theory. I don't care where anybody went to school or what degree the have...the bottom line is some people have the element of creativity for these roles and some don't. Like I mentioned earlier, some of the best designers I worked with had no degree at all and had the ability to design a machine or product from nothing at all...just an idea. With time and experience most young, freshly groomed engineers quickly realize they won't use 85% of what they learned in school, BUT if they need to gear up and find some further information they can do so by going back through the theory presented in the texts they used in school. That holds true for the ME or the MET...assuming good programs on either side.

Well when you're in the position of hiring someone you can use any metrics you like. The industry standards are still in place.

Also, should you be interested, I will include my US Patent numbers for inventions I have come up with over the years when I worked as an Engineer and Director in the Product Management roles...I pulled these straight off the resume for your viewing pleasure.

I'm not interested, sorry. As I said before, you're better off keeping some level of anonymity in a public forum such as this.

I'm glad you've had a good career in your chosen field. This thread has unfortunately gone from an innocent question about the difference in two degrees, to public grandstanding of a single individual's opinions and accomplishments (which are to be taken as the standard).

The original question has been answered in more than full, thread over.

 

[russ_watters]

This has gotten too personal so I'm locking the thread, but there are a couple of key points I want to reiterate:

I never said the two were the same, what I did say is that many METs end up getting the same jobs as MEs do. How old are you and what is your industry experience? I'm 40 and have worked in the fields of die casting, design engineering, project engineering and product management with a focus on new product development.

[separate post]Back then the METs were forced to have to wait 7 years to take the PE test (I think). I'm not sure how that has changed these days.

Yes, an MET can "end up" in engineering jobs, but the fact of the matter is that it is a more difficult career path and there are explicit limits to how far it can take you in some directions. I know a successful engineer at about your age who is a PE and owns of an engineering company with no degree at all, but today I'm pretty sure all states requrie an engineering degree as a pre-requisite for a new PE - that's a change in the last 20 years or so. So if you want to be the president of engineering in an MEP firm, you must have an E degree. It simply can't be done with an ET degree anymore (barring some very odd inverted responsibility situation such as a 40 year old PE doing the drawing stamping for a 60 year old president of engineering who has no official responsibility). In other words, someone starting out with an MET degree was better-off 40 years ago than one starting off with an MET today. Some of the career paths available then have since been closed.

You're taking this issue personally, but you shouldn't. We're talking about general realities, here, not about individual cases. I know of a guy who didn't finish college and went on to be the richest man in the world - that doesn't mean that people shouldn't finish college. The general reality is that an ME degree is more advanced than an MET degree and will tend be viewed that way by people doing the hiring - particularly for the first few years of one's career. It's a competitive market and it's easy for a computer to filter-out applicants who don't meet the minimum requirement for a job.

I also didn't see salary data posted anywhere above. Here's some:
MET: $43,144 - $69,090
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Mechanical_Engineering_Technologist/Salary
ME: $52,046 - $73,024
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Mechanical_Engineer/Salary

You can get more specific with a search, too.