What have the french done now.

[Smurf]

Someone explain to me [preferably in a non-aggressive, non-insulting tone] why there is so much racism against the french lately, even by non Bush supporters.

 

[russ_watters]

AFAIK, "French" isn't a race - but if you're asking why Americans seem to dislike the French and vice versa, this is nothing new. I visited France (Paris) about 18 years ago, and the snobbery that is the stereotype was quite overt.

Beyond that, there is the recent politics. Time magazine had a great article a year or two ago about the French desiring to be a leader of "The Coalition of the Unwilling" - ie, being the leader of a group of nations who oppose everything the US does. That is the basis of French international power.

With Iraq, specifically, as much as the US's action was said to be motivated by oil/money, France's opposition was doubly-motivated by oil/money. Its no secret that France's dealings with Iraq were quite lucrative.

One of my biggest political pet peves is the French willingness to sell damn near anyone damn near anything: including nuclear reactors to both Iraq and North Korea. If you're a budding terrorist or criminal dictator, France will sell you what you need.

 

[Mercator]

AFAIK, "

With Iraq, specifically, as much as the US's action was said to be motivated by oil/money, France's opposition was doubly-motivated by oil/money. Its no secret that France's dealings with Iraq were quite lucrative.

One of my biggest political pet peves is the French willingness to sell damn near anyone damn near anything: including nuclear reactors to both Iraq and North Korea. If you're a budding terrorist or criminal dictator, France will sell you what you need.

In this respect they are exactly like the US. If you don't look at the superficial differences of language etc... they are alike.

 

[Mercator]

It goes even further btw., the US imported most of the Iraqi oil during the embargo. But it was done mostly through French middlemen. Nice coalition...

 

[vanesch]

Beyond that, there is the recent politics. Time magazine had a great article a year or two ago about the French desiring to be a leader of "The Coalition of the Unwilling" - ie, being the leader of a group of nations who oppose everything the US does. That is the basis of French international power.

Yes, I told you that a while ago, the French like to oppose anything the US does. With the Iraq war this was such a nice opportunity that they didn't want to miss the occasion ! In the longer run, it really reinforced the French position within Europe and probably in most of the ME.

 

[vanesch]

With Iraq, specifically, as much as the US's action was said to be motivated by oil/money, France's opposition was doubly-motivated by oil/money. Its no secret that France's dealings with Iraq were quite lucrative.

I honestly don't believe either argument.

In fact, I don't know why the US invaded Iraq.

The reasons that come to mind are:
- Israel
- Testosterone (I think that's the one).
- Misconceived success as "liberators" in order to increase popularity in the ME (that's oil-related).

 

[Smurf]

you forgot Exxon,

and you don't get 90% of a nation's people opposing a war because of a deal that wasn't even widely known about until you brought it up after the war.

 

[Gokul43201]

if you're asking why Americans seem to dislike the French and vice versa, this is nothing new.

There was recently a poll conducted in Europe (at least in the UK and France, I'm sure), where people were asked, among other things, their opinions of the Bush administration, and separately, their opinions of the American people.

In UK, Bush got a 30% approval, and Americans got about 45%. In France, Bush got about the same (30%), but more than 65% (perhaps more than 70% even) said they have a favorable opinion of Americans in general.

(will hunt down the source of this)

So, Russ, I believe the "viseversa" of your statement (at least) is misguided.

 

[russ_watters]

In UK, Bush got a 30% approval, and Americans got about 45%. In France, Bush got about the same (30%), but more than 65% (perhaps more than 70% even) said they have a favorable opinion of Americans in general.

(will hunt down the source of this)

So, Russ, I believe the "viseversa" of your statement (at least) is misguided.

Please do. I have been to France and know quite a number of people who have been to France and the experiences are relatively homogenous.

 

[Gokul43201]

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-0/109790477772540.xml

This is not the original, but it's what I just found.

But even in France, often seen as a bastion of anti-Americanism, 72 percent said they had a favorable view of Americans, compared with 24 percent with an unfavorable opinion, the poll found.

I too have been to France (albeit over 10 years ago) and know folks (most, American) who have been to France and would love to go back again.

 

[fourier jr]

Beyond that, there is the recent politics. Time magazine had a great article a year or two ago about the French desiring to be a leader of "The Coalition of the Unwilling" - ie, being the leader of a group of nations who oppose everything the US does. That is the basis of French international power.

yes i would say that's most of it. the american media would hype that up a lot, that fact that france dares to question the US motives when they attack defenceless, oil-rich countries. i think it was muhammed ali who said during the vietnam war, "i ain't got no quarrel with no vietcong", just like the average american probably doesn't have any quarrel with the average french person, but the governments, corporatins, etc probably don't like each other's policies very much, which explains the so-called "racism" towards the french

 

[vanesch]

you forgot Exxon,

But if that's true, why didn't they simply say so then ?

Like: "ok, I, president of the US, need to promote the competitive advantage of Exxon, because every US citizen will gain from that, especially in the long run. So we're going to kick out that Saddam guy and take the oil. And all those opposing us better watch out because we're military speaking the strongest nation on Earth and I will not hesitate to use force to make those opposing our goals shut up. Those wanting to share the deal however, can join us and you will be winning big in it".

What would be wrong with such a statement ? Why invent all those silly excuses like WMD and so on ? I think that if that was the idea, it would have been so simple to say so that the fact that they didn't say that indicates that it isn't.

 

[Smurf]

because that would be a flat out violation of every peace agreement the USA has signed, there would be even more unrest in America, one of the strongest advantages the US has is that people still believe there are WMD in Iraq [and those that don't believe it was an honest mistake]. he would have lost the support of the church as well, no christian is going to support blood for money and the liberals would have had way more ammo which even they couldn't screw up using.

basicly what it is now but 10x worse for bush (i still think he could have gotten away with rigging it a second time if he did)

Edit: And the idea that invading another country for the reasons of benefiting your own country are very... imperialistic.

 

[cragwolf]

Someone explain to me [preferably in a non-aggressive, non-insulting tone] why there is so much racism against the french lately, even by non Bush supporters.

American blowhards, like their Australian counterparts, just love to bash the French. It's almost a national sport. I suspect it boils down to the racist component of their Anglo-Saxon cultural heritage, in addition to the fact that the two cultures have their differences. The old "but French isn't a race hence it's not racism" excuse is breathtakingly pathetic. Neither is African-American. In fact, genetically, there is no such thing as race ... ooh, so there's no such thing as racism! It doesn't matter. There is no difference between calling the French "vile" as someone called them in another thread on this forum (oh, and by the way, moderators, great job on letting that one slide, forgive me for thinking that you actually have a job to do) and calling African-Americans vile, or Asians vile or any other racist bilge.

French people is one thing. Now, French government policy, plenty to criticize there. It's just a shame that the Freedom-Fries-eating idiots can't distinguish between the two. Fortunately, they only constitute a minority of the population ... for now.

 

[revelator]

This is kinda off topic, but was it only French Fries that were changed? How about french bread, french toast, and french salad dressing? Do you Americans still french-kiss? Can people be seen sporting berets?

 

[Smurf]

Berets were renamed Freedom pointy-sticks. French Toast is now Fried Toast with a hint of Freedom and it's against the American Born-Again religion to kiss, so they never kiss let alone get laid.

 

[revelator]

Oh well. I love so many things french. The language, the accent, the wine, the women, but I suppose that's partially from being half-french. New Brunswick french though, not Quebecois french.

 

[vanesch]

Someone explain to me why there is so much racism against the french lately, even by non Bush supporters.

There has always been a rivalry between the French and the Anglo Saxons, for very old historical reasons. It is true, especially since De Gaulle, that the French just hate to be the followers of the US, and that there are stereotypes of the others on both sides (snobbish vs stupid for instance). But until recently, there wasn't really such a thing as hate between the people (which is, as far as I can testify, only one-way). It was, until recently, more on the level of a kind of rivalry. In fact, for other Europeans (as I am) this is a bit strange, because the Germans, Belgians and so on did oppose just as strongly to the war as the French and they don't seem to be targetted in the same way.

 

[tumor]

You want to see the difference bettween English and French and why French don't want to have anything to do with English,then just go for a visit to the UK.
You will see country in ruin, roads,sidewalks,subway,trains not taken care of ,whole cities looking almost delipidated,very depressing country and worst are its people.Very rude and angry,British women are some of the fattest and ugliest in Europe looking almost like they stepped out of Wal-Mart in the USA.
Or maybe don't go to the UK just believe me what I said.If you go, you might get really depressed and blame me.
In contrasst France feels like Heaven, everything in France and in continentall Europe is 100,1000 times better than in UK.
British,in one word are CHEAP!
PS.Americans, British are simply jealous of France, that's why they hate them.

 

[Evo]

I'm closing the thread, it's degraded too much.