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HIGHLYTOXIC
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whats the proof of existence of god?How can anyone believe?
Why do you need proof? He either is or He isn't. If He is then we should inherently know this. But then again if we don't, perhaps it's because we've taken someone else's word for it? Hmm ... Hey, don't look at me man!Originally posted by HIGHLYTOXIC
whats the proof of existence of god?How can anyone believe?
Originally posted by FZ+
I would have thought that most religions name chance as God.
In either case, I think you underestimate chance's abilities... And left out the reason why - why do you think it all had to turn out this way?
Originally posted by photon
Despite what most people think, it is actually possible for God, the Big Bang, and Evolution to all coexist.
The value of these parameters are exactly the value that they need to be in order for the universe to exist as it it. etc etc
Actually, I'll expect this to be leading on to a discussion of the anthropic principle, which has a number of solutions.However according to the BB and a number of physicists the universe is not infinite but finite in both space and time.
Originally posted by Royce
We experience God within ourselves and know God and know that he exists. It is beyond belief and beyond what is normally thought of as faith. Once God is experienced within ourselves there is no longer any need for proof.
Originally posted by photon
The "infinite ladder" that meteor posted is no more absurd than the infinite ladder that created matter and life.
If you call the idea of God absurd, you're pretty much calling the idea of the Big Bang, ect. absurd also.
Originally posted by Mumeishi
In that case, this is the only occasion when unverified subjective experience of something justifies its belief.
Why does this not apply to madmen who 'know' they are John the Baptist? Or to cultists who 'know' that they are communing with extraterrestrials? What is the justification for this special ruling? If the answer is of the 'Because God is special' form, then we have a circular argument (pulling itself up by its own diameter).
No. He is showing that the creator concept is extraneous and solves nothing. If we can speculate about an always-existent, self-creating or outside-of-the-normal-laws-of-cause-and-effect God, why not miss him out altogether and consider that reality itself may have these very properties?
If you can't or won't buy that then think of it as the universe, a conscious universe with will and purpose.
Originally posted by Royce
In a very real sense every subjective experience is unverified and everything that we experience in life is subjective as it is all mental perceptions of what our senses send to our brain. God is no different with the exception that the experience is somehow beyound perception but direct contact with our being or mind if you prefer.
It, the experience is not linear but a complete concept all at once.
Originally posted by Royce
Since our individual reality is totally subjective perception then for them it is their reality. I presume that it is no less real for them than the reality that I perceive is real to me.
Again the thing that make it special or different or distinguishable from our other perceptions is that it a complete conceptual perception of direct input rather than linear sensory input. I know that this is vague but it is the best that I can do to describe the experience to one who has not experienced it.
Originally posted by Royce
Because it is not possible to separate God from reality. Reality has those properties because God is the ultimate reality and all that reality is, is of God. There is only one reality. It has different aspects but it is still one and thus ultimate and it is real.
God is not special, nor is God a special reality apart from our reality. God is. God is all. God is all that there is and all that is is God. There is a Buddhist saying that if everything is sacred then nothing is sacred. Substitute the word special and it is still valid.
If God is a synonym for the deepest principles of physics, what word is left for a hypothetical being who answers prayers, intervenes to save cancer patients or helps evolution over difficult jumps, forgives sins or dies for them?
Originally posted by Royce
It is the thinking that we are seperate, apart from God that causes us to think of God a special or as scientifically or logically unnecessary. The absurdity of this thinking is that we are not separate or apart from God but a part of God.
Originally posted by Royce
If you can't or won't buy that then think of it as the universe, a conscious universe with will and purpose. The universe is all that is. We are a part of the universe and the universe is us. There is nothing outside of the universe and the universe is the untimate one and only reality. There is only one X and all is one X. Substitute the word that you can best live with, God, Reality, Universe or make one up yourself. God/universe doesn't care. Your perception or belief of what reality is or is not changes nothing. What is, is.
Originally posted by Mumeishi
Now you're branching off into philosophical Idealism. One problem with idealism is that investigation of reality reveals consistent and apparently physical causes for my mental states - the pathways of my senses and nervous system can be traced with precision and if I alter the the chemistry of my brain it will have a direct effect on my perception of reality. If 'everything is subjective' and thus the physical is caused by the mind, then why is the causality working the wrong way? Is it a conspiracy of some sort? For what purpose? Does this philosophy really have any explanatory power?
Another problem is that if Idealism is true, I should be able to control reality by changing my mental state (aka 'magic'). I can't.
A third problem is that if Idealism is true I can make it false just by disbelieving in it. There I just did! Checkmate!
We are not normally privy to how our subjective states arise. What makes you think that you would really know if something was 'directly input' ?
Buddhists may or may not bewlieve in a god. They do believe in an after life and spiritual being. They believe in the One of which we are all part. It is from the Buddhist teachings that I first read of this concept. Buddhist, some at least, also believe that this life on Earth is the illusion and the spiritual is the real but that it is all interconnected and interactive.
Yes, but where does 'God' fit into this view of reality? Buddhists don't believe in God. Calling ultimate reality 'God' is just an excuse to bundle in unjustified beliefs such as omnibenevolence, the afterlife, judgement etc, in other words, to try to continue the old Judeo-Christian social-control memes. As Richard Dawkins puts it:
How can I think of myself as separate from 'God', when I don't have a belief in Gods? You're putting the cart before the deity.
See above. Anyway there is no sign that the universe exhibits will or purpose except in small pockets called 'brains'. The rest of your comments about reality, I pretty much agree with.