Negative-definite inner products

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In summary, the speaker is investigating whether a certain conjecture is true for a specific type of inner product space called an inner product space. They have proven that the conjecture holds for finite-dimensional spaces, but are unsure about infinite-dimensional spaces. They are using Zorn's Lemma to investigate and have defined a collection of subspaces on which the inner product is negative-definite. They have proposed an idea for finding an upper bound for this collection. They also mention the existence of an orthonormal basis for finite-dimensional spaces and a necessary and sufficient condition for the maximality of the dimension. They conclude by stating that the conjecture is true for spaces with an orthogonal basis and are wondering if this condition can be weakened and still hold true.
  • #1
andytoh
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Let V be an inner product space whose inner product g is not positive-definite but simply nondegenerate (Minkowski spacetime is an example). Using Zorn's Lemma I've proven fairly easily that V has a maximal subspace on which g is negative-definite. Now I'm investigating:

Conjecture: V has a subspace, of maximal dimension, on which g is negative-definite. If V is finite-dimensional, this is obviously true. Do you guys think it is true if V is of infinite dimension?
 
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  • #2
I'm having difficulty proving this using Zorn's Lemma (if it is true at all). Let A be the collection of all subspaces of V on which g is negative-definite. Give A the partial order relation: U < W iff dim(U) < dim (W). Let B be a totally ordered subcollection of A. Now what is an upper bound of B in A? The union of subspaces here is not a subspace because we are not dealing with a chain of subspaces.
 
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  • #3
Idea: Given a totally ordered subcollection B of A, let W = the SUM of the subspaces in B. Consequently, the dimension of W will be greater than the dimension of each subspace, since W is the span of all the subspaces in B. Thus W is an upper bound of B.

Is W in A? W will be a subspace even if the sum is infinite if I define elements in W to be the set of all finite sums of the elements of the subspaces, right?

The negative-definite property of W: g(v_1+...+v_n, v_1+...+v_n) = oops, though all the g(v_i,v_i) terms are non-positive, there are many g(v_i, v_j) terms that may be positive.
 
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  • #4
V has an orthonormal basis if it is finite-dimensional (where a unit vector v here is defined as g(v,v)= 1 or -1), but not necessarily if it is infinite-dimensional. It will always have a maximal orthonormal basis however, and thus there will be a maximal submatrix that is diagonalizable. But there is no matrix to represent g if the dimension of V is not countable.

If V has an orthogonal basis then all the g(v_i,v_j) terms would be zero and the proof is complete. Perhaps that is the necessary and sufficient condition for the maximality of the dimension. Though the condition is sufficient, it may not be a necessary condition. My original conjecture is that there is no extra necessary condition on V.

Note: This was a response to a post that was deleted.
 
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  • #5
Proof complete.

The conjecture is true if V has an orthogonal basis. What I wonder is if this condition on V can be weakened (or have no condition at all) and the conjecture still remain true.
 
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What is a negative-definite inner product?

A negative-definite inner product is a type of inner product that satisfies certain conditions, namely it is linear, symmetric, and negative-definite. This means that for any two vectors u and v, the inner product will be a real number, the inner product is symmetric, and is always a negative number.

What is the significance of a negative-definite inner product?

A negative-definite inner product is significant in mathematics and physics because it allows for the definition of a negative-definite norm, which can be used to measure the length of vectors. This type of inner product is also used in optimization problems, where it helps to determine the direction of maximum decrease.

How is a negative-definite inner product different from a positive-definite inner product?

A negative-definite inner product is different from a positive-definite inner product in that the former always produces a negative result, while the latter always produces a positive result. This means that the vectors in a negative-definite inner product space are always orthogonal to each other, while in a positive-definite inner product space, they are always parallel.

Can an inner product be both negative-definite and positive-definite?

No, an inner product cannot be both negative-definite and positive-definite. This is because the definition of positive-definite and negative-definite are mutually exclusive. An inner product can be neither positive-definite nor negative-definite, in which case it is called an indefinite inner product.

How is a negative-definite inner product used in applications?

Negative-definite inner products are used in various applications, such as in optimization problems, where they help to determine the direction of maximum decrease. They are also used in physics, specifically in quantum mechanics, to define the concept of orthogonality and measure the length of vectors in Hilbert spaces.

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