Exploring Apocalypticism: Social & Psychological Impacts

[Andre]

That's an interesting google with interesting reads

But how to deal with all those people in the environment, who are dead sure about it. Not only the active prophets, but also maybe ones siblings and children are among the quiet or vocal believers. You can't just remove those from you life, because of the fundamental disagreement. I read that on 22 December none of the believers will be elated that we're still there, thankful to those who kept the world running. They'll invent just a new End-of-the-World-as-we-know-it.

So what are the socialogical/psychological 'forces' behind that apocalypsm and what can we do about it?

 

[Evo]

Andre, which of those links did you wish to discuss?

 

[Andre]

Oh the idea is to figure out the best way how to discuss this with true believers, who you want to remain friends with. And that can be quite a challenge.

So I'd like to encourage everybody to have a look at this and imagine how to convince your mum, kid, that it's all shear nonsense.

More later. A lot more.

 

[micromass]

Oh the idea is to figure out the best way how to discuss this with true believers, who you want to remain friends to. And that's quite a challenge.

So I'd like to encourage everybody to have a look at this and imagine how to convince your mum, kid, that it's all shear nonsense.

More later. A lot more.

I wouldn't try to convince anybody. It's a waste of time. The beliefs are irrational and you can't argue with them. I gave up a long time ago since such arguments almost broke the family apart.

 

[Andre]

I wouldn't try to convince anybody. It's a waste of time. The beliefs are irrational and you can't argue with them. I gave up a long time ago since such arguments almost broke the family apart.

I know. Been there, done that. I was just looking for the right and most striking appeal to logic and sense.

 

[Chi Meson]

I was just looking for the right and most striking appeal to logic and sense.

Well there's your problem!

The phrase "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up," is not a joke unfortunately. True believers (of anything) consider such a mindset to be virtue.

 

[Andre]

Well there's your problem!

The phrase "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up," is not a joke unfortunately. True believers (of anything) consider such a mindset to be virtue.

Couldn't agree more. So how many more millenia do we need to figure out that it's not?

 

[micromass]

Couldn't agree more. So how many more millenia do we need to figure out that it's not?

You won't ever be able to convince everybody. There will always be crazies and wacko's. But a lot of people have figured it out. Scientists figured it out and advance boundaries every day. It's the best we can hope for.

 

[Evo]

I love you Evo, but you are being ridiculous on this one. That date will come and go as have many other similar ones and the true believers will just recalibrate their sundials or whatever and go right on believing in nonsense.

EDIT ... as they always do.

There's a reason for what I said.

 

[lisab]

I've found that once someone believes they are on a holy mission, it's a waste of time trying to talk reason.

 

[edward]

I've found that once someone believes they are on a holy mission, it's a waste of time trying to talk reason.

Take my sister in law please. Holidays are always fun with the doomsdayers. I offered her $300 cash for her house yesterday and she refused. She must be waiting for a higher offer.:uhh:

 

[dlgoff]

We only need until next month on the 21st.

... to learn,

http://www.mytricitynews.com/images/mayan_cartoon.jpg

 

[Evo]

... To learn,

http://www.mytricitynews.com/images/mayan_cartoon.jpg

lol!

 

[russ_watters]

Don't try to convince them, just stall them for four more weeks.

 

[Andre]

Still I believe there is a gradual scale between passionate preaching prophets with a holy mission, strong convinced believers, just believers because friends believe it and doubters who don't speak up preventing damage to their network. It's that social mechanism that I wanted to browse and understand.

I once could convince somebody that there are no chemtrails. So all is not lost.

 

[ImaLooser]

Still I believe there is a gradual scale between passionate preaching prophets with a holy mission, strong convinced believers, just believers because friends believe it and doubters who don't speak up preventing damage to their network. It's that social mechanism that I wanted to browse and understand.

This interests me too. It is a difficult area to research, many will not you the truth. Actions quite often do not match professed beliefs. My thinking is that true believers are rare, but there is no way to tell by observation. I think you would find that most do not put their money where there mouth is.

 

[jtbell]

It might be instructive to consider the case of Harold Camping and how he apparently dealt with the failure of his end-of-world prediction last year.

 

[Andre]

Thanks, that's interesting case. I think that also "Heaven on Earth: The Varieties of the Millennial Experience" of Richard Landes is worth a try.

This part of the description caught my eye:

This long-awaited study shows that many events typically regarded as secular--including the French Revolution, Marxism, Bolshevism, Nazism-not only contain key millennialist elements, but follow the apocalyptic curve of enthusiastic launch, disappointment and (often catastrophic) re-entry into "normal time."

 

[Andre]

According to wiki, Maya scholars deny that there is any evidence for the end-of-the-world claim, on the contrary

In the last known largely unexcavated Maya megacity, archaeologists have uncovered the only known mural adorning an ancient Maya house, a new study says—and it's not just any mural.

In addition to a still vibrant scene of a king and his retinue, the walls are rife with calculations that helped ancient scribes track vast amounts of time. Contrary to the idea the Maya predicted the end of the world in 2012, the markings suggest dates thousands of years in the future...cont'd

Obviously the apocalypse is a modern invention based on 'misinformation'.

 

[nazarbaz]

Apocalypse is deeply rooted in the monotheist trail of cultures... Literally, it means revelation. While it is prophetism about the destiny of the community that prevailed in judaism, there's some sort of emphasis on the end of the world as a whole in the christian path : early christians thought that the end was imminent and this vue thrived till the european renaissance... Islam doesn't give a damn : believers can wait until god decides, as muhammad closed the doors of prophecy...
From time to time, there's a kind of resurgence of this archetypal myth which has less to do with mayas than with christianism : syncretism is at work here. But nowadays almost no one really believes it, the normal fraction of crackpots and morons excepted.

 

[surajt88]

Obviously the apocalypse is a modern invention based on 'misinformation'.

Andre, obviously u r late to d party..come in & enjoy..

 

[Chi Meson]

... to learn,

http://www.mytricitynews.com/images/mayan_cartoon.jpg

then the first guy says:
"Well that's going to freak some people out in about 400 years."

(attributed to some other comic.)

 

[Abstr7ct]

I think that 21/12/2012 has been the most famous apocalypse date prediction globally. Movies, books, investigations, documentaries, games...etc, have been dedicated to this day. It's coming in less than one month. Until then, keep your eye on this countdown website.

http://www.december212012.com/CDC.htm

See you on 22/12/2012!

 

[FreeMitya]

According to wiki, Maya scholars deny that there is any evidence for the end-of-the-world claim, on the contrary
Obviously the apocalypse is a modern invention based on 'misinformation'.

Not always misinformation, but sometimes just misinterpreted information. When new scientific ideas come along, there will always be a group of people who won't fully understand them and will either dismiss them or turn them into something they're not. Solar flares, super-massive black holes, and geomagnetic reversal are a few examples. To add fuel to the fire, there is also a group of people who will exploit scientific illiteracy to make money.

 

[Rooted]

I think that 21/12/2012 has been the most famous apocalypse date prediction globally. Movies, books, investigations, documentaries, games...etc, have been dedicated to this day. It's coming in less than one month. Until then, keep your eye on this countdown website.

Does this mean I don't have to revise for January exams? Woo-hoo!

 

[seaofghosts]

12/21/12 falls on my parents' anniversary. I've always found this hilarious.

 

[OmCheeto]

Did I ever tell you guys about the time I predicted, in 2006, that we would have a black president within 8 years?

--------------------------
I'd never heard of this "Barry" guy, so I claimed the president was going to be Colin Powell. :rofl: Interpreting visions is not easy.

 

[Andre]

Anyway, back to business. Of course I realize that true believers will find a way to rationalize the failure. I found this a very informative study:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/nr.1999.3.1.60?uid=3738736&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101346126253 showing that creativity knows no boundaries explaining away, and it well exceeds the expected cognitive dissonance explanation of the failure. If it wasn't so you'd really :rofl: on that.

But also a bit of an objective of this thread was, that maybe doubters also come here to read this thread, wondering what to believe, especially kids, high school etc. After reading all this and realizing how science work, they may not buy the -no doubt- hilarious adaptation strategy of the new agers.

 

[AnTiFreeze3]

I do think that there are some people who can be reasoned with, who will ultimately change their beliefs, so long as peope persistently confront them. I look towards pastors and ministers, and other self-proclaimed holy men and women, who now dismiss the idea of an omniscient entity as evidence, and I feel as if this conversion from irrationality to rationality is a universal occurrence.

For the others, we simply need to wait for them to die and hope that their children aren't as horribly decadent as they were.

 

[ImaLooser]

Did I ever tell you guys about the time I predicted, in 2006, that we would have a black president within 8 years? I'd never heard of this "Barry" guy, so I claimed the president was going to be Colin Powell.Interpreting visions is not easy.

In 1969 Frank Zappa predicted a Reagan presidency.

 

[OmCheeto]

In 1969 Frank Zappa predicted a Reagan presidency.

Really?

Btw, I also predicted that Bush would be elected to a third term. But I heard on the radio the other day that Barry is going to pull it off.

I can't get any of my details right. :grumpy:

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When December 22nd comes along, when we're all dead and the world is nothing but a smoking cinder, you all are going to feel pretty silly.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I normally just listen to people and their beliefs and leave it at that. People need to believe these things. So if you actually manage to change someone's mind you won't make them happy anyway. They are happy believing what they want to believe.

The same is true of people who have more rational beliefs. When faced with evidence contrary to established beliefs, denial is the next reaction. Whether beliefs are rational or not, as we grow older, everyone is a true believer.

Wasn't it Einstein who said that physics progresses one death at a time?

 

[phinds]

Hoarding Twinkies and waiting for the world to end.

:rofl:

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't personally know anyone who believes the world will end this year. There was a time a few years back when it was common to hear that the Maya had predicted it would end, but everyone I know has heard by now that 2012 is just the end of a very long cycle of star/planet movements that the Maya happened to notice and decide to keep track of.