Develop Lagrangian for Frictionless Pulley System w/ Moment of Inertia

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In summary, the conversation discusses a system consisting of two blocks connected by a string and a spring, with a frictionless pulley. The expression for the Lagrangian is developed, taking into account the moment of inertia of the pulley. The conversation also addresses the role of friction in the system and the need to consider the rotational kinetic energy of the pulley.
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big man
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Q. A block of mass m1 is connected to a second block of mass m2 by a light string that passes over a frictionless pulley. Mass m2 is connected to a light spring of spring constant s, as displayed below. Develop an expression for the Lagrangian of the system, assuming that the moment of inertia of the pulley [tex]I=\fraction{1/2}Mr^2[/tex] (ie it has mass M and radius r), and hence determine the natural frequency of vibration of the system.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6502/lagrange2rs.png I can do the question without having to consider the moment of inertia. What I did is use the coordinate z, where z is the position of m2 relative to the pulley.
Now that works out just fine when neglecting the moment of inertia. However, I don't see how you can consider a moment of inertia for this problem?? I just don't see how the pulley is rotating about an axis if it is frictionless? Can someone tell me want I'm missing here please.

Thanks for any help
 
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  • #2
The pulley has no friction with the axis around which it rotates, but there IS friction between the pulley and the rope, otherwise it wouldn't turn at all.

So there is rotational kinetic energy of the pulley in the system which you have to include. If the spring pushes up, it must not only push m2 and m1 up, it must also change the rotation of the pulley accordingly.
 
  • #3
ahhh ok I was thinking that it meant there was no friction between the rope and the pulley.
Ok now i can do the problem. Thanks for clearing that up man.
 

1. What is a frictionless pulley system?

A frictionless pulley system is a mechanical system that consists of one or more pulleys and a string or belt that runs over them. This system is designed to transmit force from one point to another with minimal friction, allowing for smooth and efficient movement.

2. What is a moment of inertia?

The moment of inertia is a property of a rotating object that describes its resistance to changes in rotational motion. It is a measure of how the mass of an object is distributed around its axis of rotation. In simpler terms, it is a measure of how difficult it is to start or stop the rotation of an object.

3. How do you calculate the Lagrangian for a frictionless pulley system with moment of inertia?

The Lagrangian for a frictionless pulley system with moment of inertia can be calculated by using the Euler-Lagrange equations. These equations take into account the kinetic and potential energy of the system and can be solved to determine the Lagrangian, which is a function of the system's variables such as position and velocity.

4. What are some applications of a frictionless pulley system with moment of inertia?

A frictionless pulley system with moment of inertia has numerous applications in engineering, physics, and other fields. It is commonly used in machinery and equipment, such as cranes and elevators, to lift heavy loads with minimal effort. It is also used in physics experiments to study rotational motion and in the design of mechanical systems to reduce friction and increase efficiency.

5. Are there any limitations to using Lagrangian for a frictionless pulley system with moment of inertia?

While the Lagrangian is a powerful tool for analyzing mechanical systems, it does have some limitations. It may not be suitable for systems with complex geometries or for systems that involve more than one type of motion. In addition, the Lagrangian approach may not always provide a unique solution and may require additional equations or assumptions to accurately describe a system.

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