Can Humans Really Have Superhuman Strength?

[tothfairysbac]

another time i was playen with my friend both of us in 6th grade, both of us never really mentioned the time when he eaisly picked up a 283 pound fridge with one hand to get a ping pong when he weighed 65 pounds, but this time we were both playen bball and he jumps up to block my shot (we were both 5'2 at the time) and when he jumps he goes high enough that his chin hits the ten foot rim while he was comeing back down, no trampoline no nothing, after that this kid does nothing more that can surprise me...yet

 

[BigFairy]

err.. i will be sceptical.

 

[arithmetix]

I read an account by Mark Twain, reporting on travels through Europe, of a man whose strength was something so far beyond the ordinary that I would be afraid to describe my recollections lest I be taken for a liar. I shall hint this much: that the man described by Clemens possessed the strength of a decent small crane.

 

[seycyrus]

I read an account by Mark Twain, reporting on travels through Europe, of a man whose strength was something so far beyond the ordinary that I would be afraid to describe my recollections lest I be taken for a liar. I shall hint this much: that the man described by Clemens possessed the strength of a decent small crane.

What did you think of the lead and the bullfrog story?

 

[Impagliazzo]

This makes a great deal of sense but I think there's more going on here, which is that the amount of strength we manifest is inextricable linked to how strong we believe we are.

In this video Derren Brown subtly hypnotizes a non-believer in crystal power into thinking his strength is being interfered with by crystal vibrations. (It is extremely interesting that he can do this despite the man's conscious, executive mental functions not accepting the notion.)

Speculating forward from this premise, I think a 120 lb grandma can lift a car off a baby because she doesn't have time to remember that she's not strong enough. All she knows is that it has to be done.

People who specifically practice the discipline of acquiring physical strength may, in fact, be most influenced by the belief that, having put in the work, they "deserve" to be stronger, and have their own permission to demonstrate greater strength.

Our tendency to sandbag our real muscle power may be due to a sense that our bones can only take so much. I saw a video of an arm wrestler who lost, not because he didn't have the muscle strength, but because his bone gave out: the other guy broke his arm.

So we basically underestimate the role of our brain/mind in every activity we do.

Something like how we scream because we touched the hot oven and a buddhist monk burned himself with gas while sitting on lotus position.

:tongue:

 

[rapidstart]

on the topic of super human strengh
the body in commen situations protects itself as a saftey measure, stoping muscles from tearing by not using there full potentail, but in extreme circumstances this safe guard is removed

i witnessed this earlyer in 2008, when at rugby i was bundled by my entire team
this was a huge amount of weight with all of the team weighing at least 12 stone
due to this i could not breathe at all and i was starting to black out as i could not free myself dispite how hard i was pushing i was still being smoutherd

i was then able to push upwards enough to free myself and breathe but this resulted in my team mate reciving two broken ribs from the opposing forces eather side, this was also with the same amount of team mates on me with no change to the formation of the bundle

at almost the age of 17 with the height of 5 ft 5 weighing in at 15 stone mainly muscle

this required a huge amount of strengh , i also tore the muscle in my right bicep so badly i needed a sling :(

the human body can go to the extremes in dire survival situations

(im a biology geek by the way) :D

A rugby player not long ago lost his life when when the whole thing collapsed on him displacing his spine.

 

[DanP]

Expression of human maximal strength is a function of several factors. Notably

A. Structural factors
- cross sectional area of contractile elements of the muscle fiber
- proportions of myosin heavy chains of type I, IIa, IIx in the muscle
- potentially, the activity level of several enzimes (although this is much more important in
displaying, maximal power in a specific bio-energetic regime then in max-strength display)

B. Neural factors

- level of activation of motor cortex, CNS drive to motoneurons, neural strategy choose for requirement (strategy used for motor control, to explain it in a easy to get way, it basically means that all other factors being the same, you can display more strength in a
movement which is "learned" very well.

- number of motor units recruited, rate coding, syncronization
- intramuscular coordination (linked to motor control strategies, probably the most determinant neural factor which affects expression of strength
- decreased antagonist muscles co-activation
- level of inhibition provided by Golgi tendon organs
- bilateral deficit / bilateral facilitation in bilateral work (as for example curling a barbel with both hands as opposed curling 1 dumbbell with 1 arm at a time

Now, given those factors and the fact that strength is produced by the contractile elements in the muscle we can logically think that

a) there is a maximum torque about a joint a muscle of a certain cross-sectional area and with a certain MHC composition can produce. Theoretically it is produced when all fibers
are recruited at the same time, in perfect synchronization, at maximal rate coding.

b) an untrained human will be only able to display a certain percentage of this maximal theoretical strength in most movements. Poor motor control, poor muscular synchronization,
very high levels of inhibition from GTOs, poor motivation (most ppl I know would not be very motivated to put even a modest weight on their shoulders and try to squat with it. They must "learn" they came.

In a a life and death situation some things may/will change. The level of activation of motor cortex may become much more close to the one of a trained athlete. Motivation to survive / save a life is much more powerful than dragging your *** to gym and deadlift something) The brain may decide to use a neural strategy which it would not use normally. GTOs may be inhibited, preventing them to act as a safeguard against too much tension in the muscle.

The result is that the subject of this unfortunate event can now express a much higher percentage of strength than before, in rapport to the maximum theoretical strength his muscles are structurally capable of. More often than not (when neural "safeguards" are off) , this will also result in serious injuries to the musculo-skeletal system. So it's kinda one way
all bets are one a single number now.

So to answer the question of the thread. Superhuman strength ? No. Expression of strength levels way over what the untrained person can display usually ? Yes (btw, if someone pretends he lifted a tank , ignore him. ) So much for unexplained and mysticism.

 

[tikay]

Most of us have probably heard the anecdotal accounts. One common story involves a mother who lifts a car which has fallen off the jackstands and trapped her son. In my own family there is a story about a great great aunt who, at about 120 Lbs or less and back in the 1940's I think, allegedly carried, shoved, or pulled her new and most highly prized refrigerator out of a burning house.

I have never seen any good evidence for such claims. Has anyone else?

I have not seen this in action, that I can recall offhand. But I met a woman once who had terrible scarring on her body from horrible burns, and a bit of scarring on her face and she told a tale, that she had been able to force a car off of her head which was trapped under the tire, when she was repairing something on a slight incline, and the car began to roll. The car I believe was a VW Beetle, and the scars across her mid-section resembled (or appeared to easily have been made by hot pipes), under a vehicle. So the story had a real flavor of authenticity.

She said she was alone, knew a bit about the car, had been lying nearly underneath working on something and when the front tire rolled onto her head it stopped there. She said it took a while but eventually she forced the car from sitting upon her head, and lunged away, setting herself free.

I have not thought of that, or her in years and years...but I think somehow it's possible.
People swim the English Channel (without being under duress), Complete in Triathelons with their sons wieght on their person, people do miraculous acts. They compete in excrutiathing weight lifting comps... & cut off limbs while trapped in rock faces, and crawl along trails to safety! We humans, we are very strong, it seems miraculous at times the feats we will pull off. I too have done some crazy things, in my time, requiring considerable stregnth, and stamina. So, yes, I believe that we can lift cars from our heads, and such in panic mode...
my friend was all the evidence I needed to make a believer of me. Good ol' adrenaline...it's like gasoline on a raging fire.

came back to edit~ when i am tired I lose parenthesis so easily!

 

[tikay]

Idk...as long as one of the parents has a Dominant Gene, which is brown/black eyes, then the child is MOST likely going to be Brown/Black. It is not 100% unless both parents are BB BB.

Do black eyes actually exist? i am 47 and have not once in my life seen a person with black eyes. (pupils yes, black iris' nadda one)

 

[tikay]

Do you think maybe, on the Idea of releasing adrenaline, that maybe a person could learn to release it without a stressful situation?

You merely make a contented bugger angry who, will in turn make you furious, and you will soon have some of the stuff at the ready...I believe that the stressors of childhood led (me) to an addiction to small doses of adrenaline, so within minutes, a happy person can become a fount for your adrenaline high...I am not proud but somewhat aware this may have happened in my life, on a rather subliminal level. là vous l'avez

 

[BigFairy]

Do you think maybe, on the Idea of releasing adrenaline, that maybe a person could learn to release it without a stressful situation?

Thats what amphetamines are for. :tongue:

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Expression of human maximal strength is a function of several factors. Notably

A. Structural factors
- cross sectional area of contractile elements of the muscle fiber
- proportions of myosin heavy chains of type I, IIa, IIx in the muscle
- potentially, the activity level of several enzimes (although this is much more important in
displaying, maximal power in a specific bio-energetic regime then in max-strength display)

B. Neural factors

- level of activation of motor cortex, CNS drive to motoneurons, neural strategy choose for requirement (strategy used for motor control, to explain it in a easy to get way, it basically means that all other factors being the same, you can display more strength in a
movement which is "learned" very well.

- number of motor units recruited, rate coding, syncronization
- intramuscular coordination (linked to motor control strategies, probably the most determinant neural factor which affects expression of strength
- decreased antagonist muscles co-activation
- level of inhibition provided by Golgi tendon organs
- bilateral deficit / bilateral facilitation in bilateral work (as for example curling a barbel with both hands as opposed curling 1 dumbbell with 1 arm at a time

Now, given those factors and the fact that strength is produced by the contractile elements in the muscle we can logically think that

a) there is a maximum torque about a joint a muscle of a certain cross-sectional area and with a certain MHC composition can produce. Theoretically it is produced when all fibers
are recruited at the same time, in perfect synchronization, at maximal rate coding.

b) an untrained human will be only able to display a certain percentage of this maximal theoretical strength in most movements. Poor motor control, poor muscular synchronization,
very high levels of inhibition from GTOs, poor motivation (most ppl I know would not be very motivated to put even a modest weight on their shoulders and try to squat with it. They must "learn" they came.

In a a life and death situation some things may/will change. The level of activation of motor cortex may become much more close to the one of a trained athlete. Motivation to survive / save a life is much more powerful than dragging your *** to gym and deadlift something) The brain may decide to use a neural strategy which it would not use normally. GTOs may be inhibited, preventing them to act as a safeguard against too much tension in the muscle.

The result is that the subject of this unfortunate event can now express a much higher percentage of strength than before, in rapport to the maximum theoretical strength his muscles are structurally capable of. More often than not (when neural "safeguards" are off) , this will also result in serious injuries to the musculo-skeletal system. So it's kinda one way
all bets are one a single number now.

So to answer the question of the thread. Superhuman strength ? No. Expression of strength levels way over what the untrained person can display usually ? Yes (btw, if someone pretends he lifted a tank , ignore him. ) So much for unexplained and mysticism.

You have stated the mechanism for limits but nothing about those limits. Next, any argument that uses the word "may" is hardly a proof. Finally, who said anything about mysticism, besides you?

 

[DanP]

You have stated the mechanism for limits but nothing about those limits. Next, any argument that uses the word "may" is hardly a proof. Finally, who said anything about mysticism, besides you?

Take what what was written and learn from it. Think and make your own mind. If you have questions ask. See how it fits with your observations . If you seek proofs and theorems in human performance field I am afraid you are in a wrong direction for now.
This ain't math. Only mathematical theorems can be proved. What I can offer you is a potential mechanism for the phenomena.
Its up to you if you wish to pursue the ideea further, or discard it as rubbish.

Besides, limits where indirectly specified in:

****************************
there is a maximum torque about a joint a muscle of a certain cross-sectional area and with a certain MHC composition can produce. Theoretically it is produced when all fibers
are recruited at the same time, in perfect synchronization, at maximal rate coding.
****************************

If you are interested in numbers, what I suggest is to look after data regarding the tension developed by muscle fibers in rapport to the CSA during fused tetanus (there are papers published) then use this data to model various scenarios. You will get pretty fast some numbers for the simple case of a single joint system, enough to make an idea.

 

[tikay]

I was looking for this inspiring video~ the father who COMPLETES a Kona Triathelon while bringing son along...just pretty much shows that human stregnth and excellance are pretty astounding. Many of the worlds best athletes fail to make it across the finish line with any measure of grace. This father, doing this for love of his son, who asked him to do this,& began training despite a heart condition.

 

[BigFairy]

I was watching that and it is inspiring.

 

[tikay]

Yes to me, it is a fine example of two human energies, interested in prolonging and making greater, the life of the other.
That is most often...completely inspiring.

The strange twist (for me) is that the son, has probably advanced his fathers life by years, by asking for him to do something, that (may appear to be selfish on the surface) in turn made his father become a lot healthier, over time.

A nice case of "whos helping who" really, isn't it?

;~})

 

[BigFairy]

You have a way with words.

 

[the_awesome]

Haven't read all of it. But has anyone mentioned that humans only use about 10% of their strength? Adrenalin gives you the ability to go far beyond that.

 

[DanP]

Haven't read all of it. But has anyone mentioned that humans only use about 10% of their strength? Adrenalin gives you the ability to go far beyond that.

Yeah, right. Where is the support for this theory (myth) ?

 

[tikay]

Even that hypothesis about humans only using ten percent of our brain/mind has now been proven to be a mis-understanding, and not a truth.

(~ and Thanks BiG Fairy!)

 

[the_awesome]

Even that hypothesis about humans only using ten percent of our brain/mind has now been proven to be a mis-understanding, and not a truth.

(~ and Thanks BiG Fairy!)

So your saying that humans use 100% of their strength all the time? By following that logic, how can we then lift massive amounts using adrenalin, but we can't do it normally?

 

[BigFairy]

whats the massivest biggest hugest giantness thing that you have lifted using adrenalin? by your logic, if you weigh in at 75-80kg, you shoould lift at least three quarters of a tonne. lols... somehow i don't even think amphetamines would help you.

 

[Proton Soup]

whats the massivest biggest hugest giantness thing that you have lifted using adrenalin? by your logic, if you weigh in at 75-80kg, you shoould lift at least three quarters of a tonne. lols... somehow i don't even think amphetamines would help you.

you might be able to leg press that from a short distance to lockout. even pat robertson was pushing somewhere around a half ton.

but no, the usual sort of stimulants aren't going to do a lot. maybe 10% on a good day, which would be quite a lot actually. there's something beyond just a bit of adrenaline going on in superhuman type strength.

 

[the_awesome]

whats the massivest biggest hugest giantness thing that you have lifted using adrenalin? by your logic, if you weigh in at 75-80kg, you shoould lift at least three quarters of a tonne. lols... somehow i don't even think amphetamines would help you.

Haven't read all of it. But has anyone mentioned that humans only use about 10% of their strength? Adrenalin gives you the ability to go far beyond that.

Um..where did i relate it to weight?

 

[leroyjenkens]

how can we then lift massive amounts using adrenalin, but we can't do it normally?

Is there any proof that we can?

 

[the_awesome]

Is there any proof that we can?

Yes, I've done it before. Its a well known fact that when humans are under stress they can do amazing things :)

 

[Zubin]

When we use our body to exert some force we're not recruiting all the muscles in a particular muscle group due to safeguards. During tense situations someone may recruit a large amount of their muscles and thus perform feats they couldn't manage otherwise.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Yes, I've done it before. Its a well known fact that when humans are under stress they can do amazing things :)

So adrenaline can cause your muscles to contract harder than they can normally? I know it can take away pain. We've probably all experienced that, but I've never been able to exert more force from my muscles just because adrenaline starts pumping. Is there any documented evidence for this happening and an accompanying scientific explanation for the mechanism by which it works?
We've all heard the stories of the women who picked up a car to save her child, but how true are they? Adrenaline not only makes you able to lift extreme amounts of weight, but it also makes your ligaments, muscles and bones unbreakable?

When we use our body to exert some force we're not recruiting all the muscles in a particular muscle group due to safeguards.

Different movements use different muscle groups. If you do a certain movement, that movement utilizes all the muscles that assist that movement. If there were specified muscle groups reserved for hysterical strength, they would atrophy from lack of use well before you had a chance to use them.

 

[erok81]

So adrenaline can cause your muscles to contract harder than they can normally? I know it can take away pain. We've probably all experienced that, but I've never been able to exert more force from my muscles just because adrenaline starts pumping. Is there any documented evidence for this happening and an accompanying scientific explanation for the mechanism by which it works?
We've all heard the stories of the women who picked up a car to save her child, but how true are they? Adrenaline not only makes you able to lift extreme amounts of weight, but it also makes your ligaments, muscles and bones unbreakable?

Different movements use different muscle groups. If you do a certain movement, that movement utilizes all the muscles that assist that movement. If there were specified muscle groups reserved for hysterical strength, they would atrophy from lack of use well before you had a chance to use them.

I agree. I think a lot of these stories are just pure luck they do this. I've been around a lot of rollovers four wheeling. Depending on how the vehicle rolled, one person can easily flip it back it over, no adrenaline required.

Same thing goes for weight lifting. I've seen people get pinned under a bar, and be all alone. No matter how hard they try, they aren't going to lift that weight off their chest. Another example is weight lifting competitions. I can guarantee there is a lot of adrenaline involved when you are trying to lift as much as possible in front of a crowd. However those maxes don't just up by hundreds of pounds, like you would expect during an adrenaline packed super human feat of strength - sadly is isn't a whole lot more than lifted during practice.

 

[daveg360]

I agree with erok81 - a lot of the witness accounts fail to correctly observe the physics of a situation correctly. I child pinned by a car who is freed by a mother lifting the car quickly becomes "60Kg lady lifts 1600Kg to save child!" when in fact she didn't lift anything like that sort of weight. If the child was only trapped by the last couple of inchs of travel then most people can raise the body of a car on one side by that much.

 

[the_awesome]

I agree with erok81 - a lot of the witness accounts fail to correctly observe the physics of a situation correctly. I child pinned by a car who is freed by a mother lifting the car quickly becomes "60Kg lady lifts 1600Kg to save child!" when in fact she didn't lift anything like that sort of weight. If the child was only trapped by the last couple of inchs of travel then most people can raise the body of a car on one side by that much.

You are making unproved assumptions.

 

[DanP]

You are making unproved assumptions.

Daveg360 is right.

 

[daveg360]

Versus anecdotal evidence and tabloid headlines? unless you're will to perform to lab experiments I'll continue to apply Occam's razor - people are performing feats beyond human capabilities or the observers are simply mistaken? I think it's important to put aside ones overwhelming need for comic books to be true when discussing this.

 

[the_awesome]

Versus anecdotal evidence and tabloid headlines? unless you're will to perform to lab experiments I'll continue to apply Occam's razor - people are performing feats beyond human capabilities or the observers are simply mistaken? I think it's important to put aside ones overwhelming need for comic books to be true when discussing this.

You can easily google or go on youtube to watch some videos of some examples. How bout a guy pulling a 10 tonne truck? Not to mention the friction of the tyres!

 

[DanP]

You can easily google or go on youtube to watch some videos of some examples. How bout a guy pulling a 10 tonne truck? Not to mention the friction of the tyres!

Sorry, "Strongest man competition like feats" are within the realm of a highly trained athlete. What *you* can't do, others can :P Let's get real. Besides , I am left wondering if you understand physically what happens in a probe like "truck pull" in a strongest man competition.
Which makes Daveg's point shine :P