What are your rights when interacting with the police?

[ShawnD]

http://flexyourrights.org/busted/bt-download.html

It's a video that shows what you should and should not do in certain situations when dealing with the police. It's aimed at Americans but some of the stuff is still salvagable for people in other countries. Laws such as requiring consent to search your stuff are in lots of countries; not just the US.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What gets me is how stupid some of these perpetrators are; on the cop shows anyway. From what little I've seen, most of which I find very offensive, an amazing number of people fess up needlessly. On the other hand, I wonder about how legal some of the busts shown really might be. In one episode, the cops had a guy around the corner playing a loud recording of angry dogs, while the others told the suspect that if he didn't confess, they would turn the dogs loose on him. This done while on camera no less!

We have a bunch of cops in the family. Working in law enforcement often changes people and not for the better. My cousin, a really bad dude who dealt with the Mexican mafia, and who worked with the FBI's anti-terrorism task force, has told stories that would scare the hell out of any law abiding, freedom loving citizen. [edit: although it was handy having him in the family when some local good-ole-boys gave me a bad time]

 

[russ_watters]

What gets me is how stupid some of these perpetrators are; on the cop shows anyway.

Not to be Captain Obvious, but two (stupid and criminal) typically go hand-in-hand.

 

[Grogs]

One of our required classes in school was Military law. We also covered a lot of civilian law too (since it's not all that uncommon for a soldier to get picked up 'out on the town') The answer to the question 'Do you mind if I search you car/whatever?' is always 'yes, I do mind.' Even if I know I haven't done anything wrong, why take the chance that the person who sold me my car left a crack pipe in it somewhere? I have nothing to gain by agreeing to the search.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Not to be Captain Obvious, but two (stupid and criminal) typically go hand-in-hand.

Not always true. Most any cop will tell you that there are some very smart crooks. But as for your average street thug, yes, having lived near Watts for 15 years, I have first hand experience on that count. They are not only stupid, they barely act human; if barely.

 

[russ_watters]

Not always true. Most any cop will tell you that there are some very smart crooks. But as for your average street thug, yes, having lived near Watts for 15 years, I have first hand experience on that count. They are not only stupid, they barely act human; if barely.

Granted - but on shows like "Cops", virtually all of what you see is the "average street thug". That's really what I meant.

 

[Moonbear]

One of our required classes in school was Military law. We also covered a lot of civilian law too (since it's not all that uncommon for a soldier to get picked up 'out on the town') The answer to the question 'Do you mind if I search you car/whatever?' is always 'yes, I do mind.' Even if I know I haven't done anything wrong, why take the chance that the person who sold me my car left a crack pipe in it somewhere? I have nothing to gain by agreeing to the search.

My sister is a probation officer and tells me that most of her cases involve people who were dumb enough to consent to a search when probable cause for getting a search warrant would have been questionable had they not consented. These are often young men stopped for something fairly routine like a traffic violation who just "look suspicious" to a cop, and are then found in possession of drugs or weapons when they consent to a search. A hunch isn't probable cause, but if a cop has a hunch and gets someone to consent, then it's a legal search. These aren't people being pulled over while under the influence or with drugs or weapons sitting out on the front seat, these are people who just fit a certain profile of "street thug."

The flip side is that even if you have nothing to hide, if you consent to the search, then you don't have much recourse to take if your property is damaged as part of the search. There are reasons other than hiding guilt that people should refuse to consent to a search without a warrant and/or probable cause.

 

[Moonbear]

Granted - but on shows like "Cops", virtually all of what you see is the "average street thug". That's really what I meant.

Most of what you see on those shows are alcoholics and drug addicts. Even when they mix it up a bit and show someone being arrested for domestic abuse or disorderly conduct or having a dispute with a neighbor, they still seem to be drunk or high in most of those episodes (well, most of the ones I've seen anyway; it's pretty much same crimes, different city on each episode).

 

[mattmns]

[...] In one episode, the cops had a guy around the corner playing a loud recording of angry dogs, while the others told the suspect that if he didn't confess, they would turn the dogs loose on him. This done while on camera no less!

rofl that is hilarious. I love it when the cops lie to people.

 

[ShawnD]

rofl that is hilarious. I love it when the cops lie to people.

And then wonder why we don't trust them...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

And then wonder why we don't trust them...

I think everyone should be shocked and outraged over this abuse of power. But apparently it is not only tolerated, it's entertainment! I consider this sort of thing much more dangerous to the US than any terrorists.

 

[Grogs]

I think everyone should be shocked and outraged over this abuse of power. But apparently it is not only tolerated, it's entertainment! I consider this sort of thing much more dangerous to the US than any terrorists.

Actually, the high speed chases you see on TV make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I saw one the other day where the police were chasing a guy who had pumped gas and then driven off. The chase ended when he ran a stop sign and T-Boned a family of 4 in a mini-van. They then interviewed one of the officers involved in the chase and he said something along the lines of 'I can't believe this guy nearly killed four people over $20 of gas.' My reply (screaming at the TV) was: 'I can't believe you chased the guy over $20 of gas.' It's not like they didn't have his license plate. All they had to do was go to the guy's house later and arrest him. It's one thing when the guy being chased is a serial killer, but putting innocents in danger over a misdemeanor just ticks me off.

 

[franznietzsche]

Actually, the high speed chases you see on TV make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I saw one the other day where the police were chasing a guy who had pumped gas and then driven off. The chase ended when he ran a stop sign and T-Boned a family of 4 in a mini-van. They then interviewed one of the officers involved in the chase and he said something along the lines of 'I can't believe this guy nearly killed four people over $20 of gas.' My reply (screaming at the TV) was: 'I can't believe you chased the guy over $20 of gas.' It's not like they didn't have his license plate. All they had to do was go to the guy's house later and arrest him. It's one thing when the guy being chased is a serial killer, but putting innocents in danger over a misdemeanor just ticks me off.

Is it even possible to do that anymore?

I've never been to gas station where you didn't pay first.

 

[mattmns]

^ Yes it is. Where my grandmother lives, just outside of Denver, there is a station that let's you fill up first and then pay. Whenever anyone steals gas they just write down the license plate number and report it.

 

[ShawnD]

Is it just me or is the sound brutally out of sync?

 

[ShawnD]

Actually, the high speed chases you see on TV make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I saw one the other day where the police were chasing a guy who had pumped gas and then driven off. The chase ended when he ran a stop sign and T-Boned a family of 4 in a mini-van. They then interviewed one of the officers involved in the chase and he said something along the lines of 'I can't believe this guy nearly killed four people over $20 of gas.' My reply (screaming at the TV) was: 'I can't believe you chased the guy over $20 of gas.' It's not like they didn't have his license plate. All they had to do was go to the guy's house later and arrest him. It's one thing when the guy being chased is a serial killer, but putting innocents in danger over a misdemeanor just ticks me off.

TV cops say crap like that all the time. I remember one specific segment where a robber stopped at a gas station. A pig slammed his car into the suspect, and pushed the suspect's car into the gas pump causing a huge fire that was out of control. The cop then blamed the fire on the criminal.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Admittedly there are cops out there that are not nice people and do things that they ought not do. Really though, not cooperating with a police officer is likely to get you in more trouble than cooperating.
My uncle was a hippie stoner. When he lived around here in Orange County he got pulled over often and always refused to allow the police to search his vehicle. Eventually they got to know him and hasseled him when ever they had the opertunity until the point that he had enough and moved someplace else.

 

[Pengwuino]

Not always true. Most any cop will tell you that there are some very smart crooks. But as for your average street thug, yes, having lived near Watts for 15 years, I have first hand experience on that count. They are not only stupid, they barely act human; if barely.

The smart criminals don't do stuff that will get them shown on Cops lol.

 

[Pengwuino]

TV cops say crap like that all the time. I remember one specific segment where a robber stopped at a gas station. A pig slammed his car into the suspect, and pushed the suspect's car into the gas pump causing a huge fire that was out of control. The cop then blamed the fire on the criminal.

Well if he ran from the cop, yes, yes it is his fault lol.

 

[ShawnD]

Next we'll see suspects running from cops, then cops opening fire on public streets trying to take the suspect down. "He's a madman trying to run away; he killed 4 innocent bystanders" :yuck:

 

[Pengwuino]

Well in the US, if you shoot at cops and they return fire and kill you, cops can be sued for 'wrongful death'. I think cops are suppose to dodge bullets according to lawyers.

 

[Grogs]

Well in the US, if you shoot at cops and they return fire and kill you, cops can be sued for 'wrongful death'. I think cops are suppose to dodge bullets according to lawyers.

One of the witnesses the prosecution would call to the stand would most likely be an instructor from the police academy. He/she would testify that, in short, the officer should not return fire unless they have a clear line-of-fire, i.e. no bystanders between or behind the suspect. If there are, you take cover and wait until you have a clear shot. I'm not talking about a criminal who's 2 feet away here, obviously. If the choice is shoot or be shot, you do what you have to.

In general though, the policeman is supposed to be the calm one in the situation. While the criminal is panicking/firing wildly/etc he's supposed to remain calm, asses the situation, and take whatever action is in the public's best interest. Sometimes that means letting a criminal get away rather than risking innocent lives in a shoot-out. Nobody ever said it's supposed to be an easy job.

 

[Danger]

Well in the US, if you shoot at cops and they return fire and kill you, cops can be sued for 'wrongful death'.

One useful thing that I was taught in my high school law class was that if you shoot someone, make sure he's dead. His family can still sue, but at least the eye-witness is out of the picture. (They also told us that if we kill someone on our property, drag him into the house before the law shows up. Forensics has progressed enough since then that it probably won't fly, but it might give 'reasonable doubt' about the circumstances.)

 

[selfAdjoint]

One useful thing that I was taught in my high school law class was that if you shoot someone, make sure he's dead. His family can still sue, but at least the eye-witness is out of the picture. (They also told us that if we kill someone on our property, drag him into the house before the law shows up. Forensics has progressed enough since then that it probably won't fly, but it might give 'reasonable doubt' about the circumstances.)

Wow, that was some high school law class! Did you guys need that advice?

 

[FredGarvin]

Danger, where'd you go to high school? South Central L.A.?

 

[Danger]

Danger, where'd you go to high school? South Central L.A.?

A mere stone's throw from Hypatia (not quite literally). 35 SE of Detroit, on our side of the border. High school was only 3 years after the riots, Detroit had the highest murder rate in North America, and occassionally a hood or two would find their way across the line.
(Still remember one Bozo from not long before I moved back here. They checked him at the border and found 2 trench mortars and an RPG in his trunk. Claimed he was going hunting. Yeah, for Brinks trucks.)

 

[loseyourname]

One useful thing that I was taught in my high school law class was that if you shoot someone, make sure he's dead.

That reminds me of some gangster rap lyrics that I can't quite remember. The sentiment, though, was "if you shoot me, you better kill me, because if you don't, I'm coming after you when I get out of the hospital."

 

[Danger]

"if you shoot me, you better kill me, because if you don't, I'm coming after you when I get out of the hospital."

Another very good reason. My stance on fighting is walk, run, crawl if necessary; if there's no avoiding it, one of us ain't coming back.

 

[mattmns]

That reminds me of some gangster rap lyrics that I can't quite remember. The sentiment, though, was "if you shoot me, you better kill me, because if you don't, I'm coming after you when I get out of the hospital."

That sounds 2pac esque, I am thinking "hit 'em up," or "troublesome '96"

will check in a minute.

 

[ShawnD]

They also told us that if we kill someone on our property, drag him into the house before the law shows up.

I learned that one too. If you're outside, you're pretty much screwed without witnesses. If the guy is in your home, you can at least claim that violence was the only way to end the situation.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

They also told us that if we kill someone on our property, drag him into the house before the law shows up.

I learned that one too. If you're outside, you're pretty much screwed without witnesses. If the guy is in your home, you can at least claim that violence was the only way to end the situation.

It depends on where you are. Here in California, where someone can break into your house hurting themself in the process then sue you for it and win, it probably wouldn't matter a whole lot.
Another one I've heard along the same lines is that if you shoot someone you should be sure to shoot off all the rounds. Apearantly, aside from making sure the person is dead, it helps to show that it was not a premeditated act.

 

[Danger]

Here in California

I'm afraid (or maybe relieved) that my only knowledge of US law is from the media. Ours is similar in many ways, but also different enough to make comparison difficult.

 

[loseyourname]

I saw a very good western tonight that reminded me of another old adage. If you're going to kill someone, be sure to kill his family and anyone else that might someday want to avenge the act.

 

[gerben]

I think everyone should be shocked and outraged over this abuse of power. But apparently it is not only tolerated, it's entertainment! I consider this sort of thing much more dangerous to the US than any terrorists.

I agree, officers like the ones in the video are bringing up some kind of rage in me, while I am (I guess) a model citizen. It makes me feel like there is a sort of war between police and citizens.

Moreover, I think about 60% less should have to be incarcerated if they would stop that ridiculous law against drug use.

 

[JFo]

In general though, the policeman is supposed to be the calm one in the situation. While the criminal is panicking/firing wildly/etc he's supposed to remain calm, asses the situation, and take whatever action is in the public's best interest. Sometimes that means letting a criminal get away rather than risking innocent lives in a shoot-out.

No kidding. just a couple of nights ago, there was a live police chase on tv that was taking place a couple blocks from my apt in LA. The guy was on a motorcycle, so they decided to just let him get away. I couldn't believe it!

I guess the moral is if your going to perform grand theft auto, steal a fast bike!