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Earth 'shook off' ancient warming
- Thread starter Ivan Seeking
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In summary, UK scientists claim they now know how Earth recovered on its own from a sudden episode of severe global warming at the time of the dinosaurs. Interesting, but what is new?
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Andre
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Interesting, but what is new?
The same event, a massive methane burst from decomposing clathrate happened 55MY ago at the Paleocene - Eocene boundary.
Silicone rock weathering to limestone is well known as a part of the carbon cycle and as a regulating mechanism for atmospheric CO2
The role of warming is pure speculation and not logical. Instead, geographic changes could also account for destabilizing clathrate. Tectonic uplift could also release seawater pressure over large clathrate fields causing the instability
If warming was to cause the clathrate to decompose which causes more greenhouse effect warming, then more warming should decompose even more clathrate, causing even more warming, etc and a "thermal runaway" situation should emerge. this allegedly has happened to Venus too (but not really), hence this would suggest that warming could not be the cause of clathrate destabilisation.
Nowadays, however, it seems to be unthinkable to publish any geologic article and not relating it to global warming somehow.
The same event, a massive methane burst from decomposing clathrate happened 55MY ago at the Paleocene - Eocene boundary.
Silicone rock weathering to limestone is well known as a part of the carbon cycle and as a regulating mechanism for atmospheric CO2
The role of warming is pure speculation and not logical. Instead, geographic changes could also account for destabilizing clathrate. Tectonic uplift could also release seawater pressure over large clathrate fields causing the instability
If warming was to cause the clathrate to decompose which causes more greenhouse effect warming, then more warming should decompose even more clathrate, causing even more warming, etc and a "thermal runaway" situation should emerge. this allegedly has happened to Venus too (but not really), hence this would suggest that warming could not be the cause of clathrate destabilisation.
Nowadays, however, it seems to be unthinkable to publish any geologic article and not relating it to global warming somehow.
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Evo
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From this quote from the story
Sounds like the Earth created it's own widescale version of TUMS to get rid of the gas.
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Nereid
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Venus? not just a pretty girl
As Andre said, the carbon cycle is known and (fairly) well understood ... among the cognoscetti . I'm being unfair, IIRC, it has been published in SciAm, and is discussed in Peter Ward's "Rare Earth". Evo's characterisation "Sounds like the Earth created its own widescale version of TUMS to get rid of the gas" is a wonderfully evocative summary (tho' if you don't live in the US, and don't know what "TUMS" is/are ...).
The fly in the ointment is the fact that the Sun is brighter than it was 180 mya, so the distance to a runaway greenhouse is an awful lot closer ... not even notNewton or Bystander (or Russ) would like to live on Venus ... [b(]
As Andre said, the carbon cycle is known and (fairly) well understood ... among the cognoscetti
. I'm being unfair, IIRC, it has been published in SciAm, and is discussed in Peter Ward's "Rare Earth". Evo's characterisation "Sounds like the Earth created its own widescale version of TUMS to get rid of the gas" is a wonderfully evocative summary (tho' if you don't live in the US, and don't know what "TUMS" is/are ...). The fly in the ointment is the fact that the Sun is brighter than it was 180 mya, so the distance to a runaway greenhouse is an awful lot closer ... not even notNewton or Bystander (or Russ) would like to live on Venus ...
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"Dr Cohen added that there are still vast reserves of carbon - possibly as much as 14,000 gigatons - locked up as methane ice in ocean sediments.
If global temperatures reach a critical point, it is possible they might suddenly be released into the atmosphere causing a similar event to the one that occurred during the Jurassic. "
40kg/m2? Uh-uh. "... suddenly be released..." Uh-uh ---tain't Lake Nyos. Time for people to read the material on clathrates and their properties in, Water, a Comprehensive Treatise, Felix Franks.
If global temperatures reach a critical point, it is possible they might suddenly be released into the atmosphere causing a similar event to the one that occurred during the Jurassic. "
40kg/m2? Uh-uh. "... suddenly be released..." Uh-uh ---tain't Lake Nyos. Time for people to read the material on clathrates and their properties in, Water, a Comprehensive Treatise, Felix Franks.
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Andre
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Nereid,
Your hints to the mysterous deitic planet suggest that you endorse the wet greenhouse thermal runaway hypothesis for Venus. You're probably also familiar with the hypothesis of the spinning stop of Venus due to atmospheric drag (Correia et al). However, both hypotheses have their weaknesses. One of them being a lack of integration.
Familiar with/interested in Andre's hypothesis of all Venus enigmatic features?
Posted it here about over half a year ago.
Your hints to the mysterous deitic planet suggest that you endorse the wet greenhouse thermal runaway hypothesis for Venus. You're probably also familiar with the hypothesis of the spinning stop of Venus due to atmospheric drag (Correia et al). However, both hypotheses have their weaknesses. One of them being a lack of integration.
Familiar with/interested in Andre's hypothesis of all Venus enigmatic features?
Posted it here about over half a year ago.
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As indicated:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2974
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2974
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Nereid
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Andre, I looked it over last year, and concluded it'd take me quite some time to come to grips with it sufficiently to post half-way decent questions and challenges. Then I got more interested in other things ... and never got back to it (maybe Nereid is a kind of butterfly?)
- #9
Andre
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Thanx Ivan Seeking for digging up that old thread.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2974
I put in an overview of the general idea again. Obviously, this would be the wrong thread for it. Of course I like the idea to be understood and challenged, Nereid, to see if can survive a sanity check. For instance, I realize that conservation of momentum is a though discussion item.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2974
I put in an overview of the general idea again. Obviously, this would be the wrong thread for it. Of course I like the idea to be understood and challenged, Nereid, to see if can survive a sanity check. For instance, I realize that conservation of momentum is a though discussion item.
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Tsu
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Maybe we should give some to that whale of Ivans! Ivan! Where's the picture of that whale? Show us again!Originally posted by Evo
From this quote from the story Sounds like the Earth created it's own widescale version of TUMS to get rid of the gas.
1. What is meant by "Earth 'shook off' ancient warming?"
"Earth 'shook off' ancient warming" refers to a period of time in Earth's history, known as the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), where the planet experienced a rapid and extreme warming event. This warming was caused by a massive release of greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere. However, the Earth eventually returned to a cooler state, or "shook off" the warming, as natural processes balanced out the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
2. What caused the ancient warming event?
The exact cause of the PETM is still debated among scientists, but it is believed that the release of greenhouse gases was triggered by a combination of factors, including volcanic activity, changes in ocean circulation, and the release of methane from frozen deposits in the Earth's crust. It is also possible that a meteor impact or a sudden release of methane from the ocean could have contributed to the warming event.
3. How did the Earth "shake off" the ancient warming?
The Earth "shook off" the ancient warming through a process called negative feedback. As the planet warmed, certain natural processes were triggered that helped to remove excess carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. For example, increased plant growth and ocean uptake of carbon dioxide helped to reduce the amount of this greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, leading to a cooling effect.
4. Did the ancient warming event have any long-term effects on Earth?
The PETM is considered a relatively short-lived event in Earth's history, lasting for about 150,000 years. However, the warming did have long-term effects on the planet. It is estimated that the event caused a global temperature increase of 5-8 degrees Celsius, which had significant impacts on the Earth's ecosystems. It also led to changes in ocean chemistry and circulation, and may have contributed to the extinction of some species.
5. Are there any similarities between the ancient warming event and current climate change?
While there are some similarities between the PETM and current climate change, such as the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, there are also significant differences. The rapid and extreme warming during the PETM was caused by natural processes, whereas current climate change is primarily driven by human activities, such as burning fossil fuels. Additionally, the rate of warming during the PETM was much faster than the current rate of warming, making it difficult to directly compare the two events.
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