Newscientist claims machine violates 2nd law of thermodynamics

In summary, physicists have created an atom-sorting "demon" using lasers that appears to violate the second law of thermodynamics by bringing order to chaos without expending energy. However, upon further research, it is clear that this is not a violation as an external power source (the lasers) is used to change the internal equilibrium. This experiment could have practical use in quantum computing. Some have referenced a 19th century interpretation of a "demon" as a mechanism that cannot be explained. The full article in New Scientist clarifies that no laws are broken in this process, while some have criticized the reliability of the journal. The creation of this "demon" has been published in a recent paper and is being discussed in physics forums
  • #1
MedLine
7
0
http://www.newscientist.com/channel...ed-with-lasers.html?feedId=online-news_rss20"



"The demon appears to bring order to chaos without expending energy, violating the second law of thermodynamics. "

So correct me if I am wrong, but it wouldn't violate the 2nd law because an external powersource is used to change the internal equilibrium. It seems simple to me but I keep thinking I must be missing something since it is in a printed article. What is your take on this one?



Cheers,
Medline
 
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Science news on Phys.org
  • #2
Sorry if this is common knowledge, but what in the heck is a demon, I'm assuming not a minion of hell!
 
  • #3
I think that was his 19th century interpretation of a mechanism that he could not imagine. In this case the "demon" would be the lasers.
 
  • #5
Ok so I should have done a bit more research on this. Here is a better link about this contraption. After reading this, it becomes clear that no laws are broken in the process. I was caught off guard by such bold claims coming from a publication that pretends to be scientific. Either way, it is a neat experiment and it appears that it could have some significant practical use (quantum computing).

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/33454/title/Left_in_the_cold_"
 
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  • #6
There are many bold, unsupported assertions ponied up on this forum. There are also some very bright people here who autopsy every corpse.
 
  • #7
L. Niven, "Unfinished Story", F&SF, December 1969, describes an approach to defeating the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and using a demon no less! F&SF is, without a doubt, a better reference than New Scientist.
 
  • #8
You should read the full article. There they DO clearly state (at least in the printed version of the ournal) that the 2nd law is NOT violated since energy is added to the system by the lasers.
 
  • #9
Which full article -- the one in Science or the one in New Scientist? The New Scientist article is a subscription article, and I am not paying. That once great journal has fallen immensely. If they got it right this time, good for them. I'm still not paying.
 
  • #10
D H said:
Which full article -- the one in Science or the one in New Scientist? The New Scientist article is a subscription article, and I am not paying. That once great journal has fallen immensely. If they got it right this time, good for them. I'm still not paying.

New Scientist.
Pop-Sci journals are by definition unreliable (it is hard to see how they could not be), but at least in the printed article they got the facts right this time. Although I agree that the free introduction to the article on their website is misleading.
 
  • #11
The New Scientist article is presumably referring to this recent paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.1585. It was submitted to PRL in February, and published on 20th June as Phys. Rev. Lett. 100, 240407 (2008). Thus, since this is a published paper, I'm moving this thread to the Physics forums.
 
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1. What is the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that in any closed system, the total entropy (or disorder) always increases over time. In simpler terms, it means that energy tends to disperse and become less organized over time.

2. How does a machine violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

A machine that claims to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics would essentially be able to create more energy than it consumes, which goes against the law of conservation of energy. This would mean that the machine is able to decrease entropy, which is impossible according to the 2nd law.

3. What evidence is there to support this claim?

There is currently no scientific evidence to support the claim that a machine can violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. In fact, this goes against well-established principles of thermodynamics and has not been observed or demonstrated in any scientific experiments.

4. Why is this claim important?

The claim that a machine violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics is important because it has the potential to challenge our understanding of one of the fundamental laws of physics. If such a machine were to exist, it would have huge implications for energy production and could potentially revolutionize the way we think about energy.

5. What is the role of peer review in evaluating this claim?

Peer review is a crucial process in evaluating scientific claims, including the claim that a machine violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics. This involves subjecting the claim to scrutiny by other experts in the field, who can assess the experimental methods and results to determine the validity of the claim. Without peer review, it is difficult to determine the credibility of such claims and ensure that they align with established scientific principles.

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