- #1
sadhu
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can anyone proove "kelvin plank" statement of second law of thermodynamics or atleast show that it is always followed in any cyclic process...
Testing Kelvin Planck's Second Law of Thermodynamics
- Thread starter sadhu
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In summary, the Kelvin Planck statement of the second law is not always followed in any cyclic process.
- #2
sadhu
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am i gone mad ,no one knows it...come on
- #3
Andrew Mason
Science Advisor
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I think this question is asking you to prove that the Kelvin Planck statement of the second law follows or is equivalent to the Clausius statement of the second law.sadhu said:
First of all, you should state the Kelvin Planck statement of the second law and also state the second law (Clausius statement).
Then assume that the Clausius statement is not true (heat flows from cold to hot without adding work) and show that it follows that Kelvin Planck is not true. So not-Clausius is false (and not-KP is false): ie.Clausius must be true (and so Kelvin Planck must be true).
Hint: assume that heat Q can flow from cold to hot without doing work, then put a heat engine in there which takes the same amount of heat (Q) from the hot reservoir as flows from the cold and produces W work delivering Q' heat flow to the cold reservoir. You can see that the hot reservoir is not really doing anything (Q flows in and Q flows out) so you can ignore it and just consider Q flowing from the cold reservoir to the heat engine. AM
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- #4
sadhu
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sorry
but what i mean is to show that the statement
"kelvin plank"
"heat cannot be converted into work with 100% efficiency(without giving some to cold body)"
is followed in every cyclic process ,without using other forms of the 2 law or carnot
cycle or any such statement which is a part of second law or uses it .
i.e to prove it independently
because it will automatically prove every other part of it except the one including the concept of entropy which i think can,t be prooved..
well i have made some progress in it but i am not sure that my proove is genuine one or not hence i wanted someone to come up with some other more rigourous methods to do it.
but thanks for your reply...
but what i mean is to show that the statement
"kelvin plank"
"heat cannot be converted into work with 100% efficiency(without giving some to cold body)"
is followed in every cyclic process ,without using other forms of the 2 law or carnot
cycle or any such statement which is a part of second law or uses it .
i.e to prove it independently
because it will automatically prove every other part of it except the one including the concept of entropy which i think can,t be prooved..
well i have made some progress in it but i am not sure that my proove is genuine one or not hence i wanted someone to come up with some other more rigourous methods to do it.
but thanks for your reply...
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- #5
sadhu
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search for proof
well if you all remembered i recently asked the question about prooving(not deriving) 2 law
but no one gave me the answer i wanted. so i was left to do on my own ,well i came up with an
analysis but don't know whehter it is right or wrong
so here i put to everyone to analyse it and check
well if you all remembered i recently asked the question about prooving(not deriving) 2 law
but no one gave me the answer i wanted. so i was left to do on my own ,well i came up with an
analysis but don't know whehter it is right or wrong
so here i put to everyone to analyse it and check
1. What is Kelvin Planck's Second Law of Thermodynamics?
The second law of thermodynamics is a fundamental law of physics that states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time. In other words, the natural flow of energy in a system always results in an overall increase in disorder.
2. How can Kelvin Planck's Second Law of Thermodynamics be tested?
There are several ways to test this law, including measuring the efficiency of heat engines and heat pumps, and observing natural processes like diffusion and heat transfer. These experiments all demonstrate that energy tends to flow from hot to cold and that heat engines can never be 100% efficient.
3. Why is testing Kelvin Planck's Second Law of Thermodynamics important?
This law is a fundamental principle of thermodynamics and has many practical applications, such as the design of engines and power plants. Testing it helps us better understand how energy behaves in different systems and can lead to improvements in energy efficiency and sustainability.
4. What are some potential sources of error when testing Kelvin Planck's Second Law of Thermodynamics?
The accuracy of the measurements and the validity of the assumptions made in the experiments can affect the results. Additionally, external factors such as friction and heat loss can also impact the outcome of the tests.
5. Have there been any exceptions or violations of Kelvin Planck's Second Law of Thermodynamics?
While this law has been observed to hold true in all practical situations, there have been some theoretical exceptions proposed, such as quantum systems and black holes. However, these exceptions have not been definitively proven and do not contradict the overall validity of the law.
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