Today, we watch the downfall of a car manufacturer.

[MotoH]

(CNN) -- Toyota announced a voluntary safety recall of about 8,000 four-wheel-drive Tacoma trucks in North America, citing potential production defects in the front drive shaft of certain 2010 models.

The automaker said Friday that the front shaft in a small production run of pickups may include a component that developed cracks during the manufacturing process.

As the vehicles are used, the cracks could lead to "the separation of the drive shaft at the joint portion."

Toyota said the safety inspection and replacement will be performed at no cost.

On Tuesday, Toyota President Akio Toyoda issued an apology with the announcement of a global recall of more than 400,000 hybrid models for 2010, including the widely popular Prius, because of braking problems.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/13/tacoma.recall/"

Things are not looking good at the Toyota plant. Even though it is only 8,000 trucks, each recall and warning hurts them more and more.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

8000 trucks is barely an afterthought. No doubt though, these are tough times at Toyota.

I will gladly buy a Toyoya for our next car. With so many years of phenomenal success and growth, they were due for some problems.

After all of the crap US manufacturers have turned out for years, a few problems at Toyota causes me no concern at all.

 

[Evo]

Same here, Toyota makes great cars.

 

[MotoH]

The average American who gets all of their news from the TV and newspaper, is going to hear this and think "toyota is recall after recall" and not give them a second thought. There are informed individuals out there, who know stuff like this happens from time to time, and overall toyota makes good cars. But these people are the minority.

 

[Evo]

The average American who gets all of their news from the TV and newspaper, is going to hear this and think "toyota is recall after recall" and not give them a second thought. There are informed individuals out there, who know stuff like this happens from time to time, and overall toyota makes good cars. But these people are the minority.

Trust me, after years and years of problems with American cars, I don't think this will hurt Toyota that much. People tend to prefer certain cars and will most likely continue that preference. People that like American cars will feel better about their choice.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Trust me, after years and years of problems with American cars, I don't think this will hurt Toyota that much. People tend to prefer certain cars and will most likely continue that preference. People that like American cars will feel better about their choice.

Yes, product loyalty often results from many years of having happy customers. As indicated in another thread, I estimated that we have driven Toyotas over a million miles with almost no unplanned maintenance or repairs. Toyota's reputation was earned this way a million times over. A few bad months won't undo that reputation provided that they take care of the problems. Likewise, GM and Ford cannot easily undo the reputation earned through almost four decades of producing crappy products. As for Chrysler, PULLEASE! Don't even talk to me.

 

[Chi Meson]

Our "family car" is the Toyota Sienna. It's my 4th Toyota. This recall is barely registering on my "concern screen."

 

[Andy]

Almost all car manufacturers do recalls on their cars, especially new models, i remember the list of recalls that we had to do on some of the merc's i worked on. Used to work on cars for hours without the customers knowledge, apparently BMW used to replace the whole engine on their old 325 model.

 

[Saladsamurai]

America makes cars?

 

[Andy]

lol, pick ups.

 

[OmCheeto]

... As indicated in another thread, I estimated that we have driven Toyotas over a million miles with almost no unplanned maintenance or repairs. ...

I think I got over 600,000 miles from my two Toyota's. Much better than any of my other vehicle brands. But being the experimenter that I am, I just bought a Ford. Actually, this will be my first real Ford. (Apparently my Probe is really a Mazda) But the gentleman that runs the convenience store that I frequent says his Ranger has over 200,000 miles, and is still running quite well. So all is not lost.

Ouch! Toyota stocks dropped 26% in one month!

hmmm...

2-12-2010
Toyota: Market Cap: 120.8B
Ford: Market Cap: 36.8B
GM: bankrupt / stocks still not trading the last time I checked
Chrysler: bankrupt / stocks still not trading the last time I checked

Just a blip in Toyota's radar screen apparently. Stocks are up 7% over the last week. Go back to sleep everyone. ...:zzz:

 

[Cyrus]

If I recall correctly (and I think I do), Toyota has a HUGE, and I mean HUGE sum of cash (in the billions) laying around in case of hard times.

 

[mgb_phys]

If I recall correctly (and I think I do), Toyota has a HUGE, and I mean HUGE sum of cash (in the billions) laying around in case of hard times.

Most Japanese companies sit on huge cash reserves, given the traditional very low dividends they pay this is a problem for the market - but is great for long term investment.

A neighbour was laughing at my Subaru last year, claiming the crash would wipe out all the small specialist car makers, Subaru is owned by Fuji - they could probably pay for Subaru for a century out of the tea money.

 

[Proton Soup]

i think toyota is smart to get this out of the way right now. most people will never hear of this recall if they don't own the vehicle because the news will be drowned out by the other. a slow trickle of bad news every month or so would be detrimental, tho.

 

[russ_watters]

They'll be ok. It would be worse if the economy was up: losing a month of sales means losing a lot less sales than it would in a good economy.

 

[rootX]

Most Japanese companies sit on huge cash reserves, given the traditional very low dividends they pay this is a problem for the market - but is great for long term investment.

A neighbour was laughing at my Subaru last year, claiming the crash would wipe out all the small specialist car makers, Subaru is owned by Fuji - they could probably pay for Subaru for a century out of the tea money.

Most outsiders find Toyota unfathomable because it doesn’t bear any of the telltale signs of a successful enterprise. In fact, it resembles a failing or stagnant giant in several ways. Toyota pays relatively low dividends and hoards cash, which smacks of inefficiency. From 1995 to 2006, Toyota’s dividends averaged only 20% of earnings. For instance, its 2006 payout of 21.3% was on par with that of smaller rivals, such as Nissan’s 22.9% and Hyundai-Kia’s 17.4%, but far behind (the then) DaimlerChrysler’s 47.5%. At the same time, it had accumulated $20 billion of cash, leading some analysts to call it Toyota Bank.

By any standard, the company pays executives very little. In 2005, Toyota’s top executives earned only one-tenth as much as Ford’s. Their compensation was lower than that of their counterparts at the 10 largest automobile companies, save Honda. Toyota managers also rise through the hierarchy slowly: In 2006, the company’s executive vice presidents were on average 61 years old—close to the retirement age at many non-Japanese companies.

http://hbr.org/2008/06/the-contradictions-that-drive-toyotas-success/ar/1

An article from June 2008

 

[Zantra]

How to burn cash:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/business/30ford.html

I can tell you that around 2000 Ford had a reserve of around $30 billion

If you would have told me Ford would be in the position it is today in 2000 so quickly I'd have laughed-most folks would have.

Never say never..

 

[Ivan Seeking]

America makes cars?

Yes, Toyotas are made in Georgia.

I like to think that Ford and GM will make a comeback. Ford is actually in pretty good shape right now, comparatively, and I think GM has a fighting chance. But they must abandon the niche approach and go head to head with the Japanese, which they are finally starting to do. They got their butts kicked so badly in the 70's that they all but yielded to Japanese superiority in fuel-efficient, reliable cars.

Ford was doing very badly when I saw a bit about them designing trucks to sound cool. They were actually tuning the exhaust system for the sound, according to test subject's preferences. I was simply amazed by this. Has America's first car company really been reduced to utter novelty as a design goal? Hopefully they have their eyes on the ball now.

 

[Proton Soup]

Yes, Toyotas are made in Georgia.

Hondas and Mercedes in Alabama. think we might have a toyota engine plant, too.

I like to think that Ford and GM will make a comeback. Ford is actually in pretty good shape right now, comparatively, and I think GM has a fighting chance. But they must abandon the niche approach and go head to head with the Japanese, which they are finally starting to do. They got their butts kicked so badly in the 70's that they all but yielded to Japanese superiority in fuel-efficient, reliable cars.

Ford was doing very badly when I saw a bit about them designing trucks to sound cool. They were actually tuning the exhaust system for the sound, according to test subject's preferences. I was simply amazed by this. Has America's first car company really been reduced to utter novelty as a design goal? Hopefully they have their eyes on the ball now.

was that the Harley Davidson edition F-150? i suppose they get excellent markup on specialty editions. and considering the number of folks that will rip the stock exhaust off first thing to put on a rumbly catback system, it's hard to blame them for wanting to get a piece of that pie. you should see the ridiculous stickers on Roush-modded Mustangs.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

was that the Harley Davidson edition F-150? i suppose they get excellent markup on specialty editions. and considering the number of folks that will rip the stock exhaust off first thing to put on a rumbly catback system, it's hard to blame them for wanting to get a piece of that pie. you should see the ridiculous stickers on Roush-modded Mustangs.

I'm not sure what model was involved, but this strikes me a bit like saving the goldfish when the building is burning. There are surely more important things to do with your time.

 

[Proton Soup]

I'm not sure what model was involved, but this strikes me a bit like saving the goldfish when the building is burning. There are surely more important things to do with your time.

so maybe a return to their roots is in order ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#Model_T"

 

[Cyrus]

I'm not sure what model was involved, but this strikes me a bit like saving the goldfish when the building is burning. There are surely more important things to do with your time.

BMW built this wind tunnel because road noise is an important customer metric.

"Hans, how is de road noise?"

"VATT?"

"HOW IS DE ROAD NOISE?"

"ITS GUUD YAA!"

 

[mgb_phys]

BMW built this wind tunnel because road noise is an important customer metric.

It is - especially in convertibles. I have had rental cars that were unusable if you had any window open even a crack.
It's also extremely difficult to model with CFD, it's not just the pressure value - it's the frequency, the rate of change - lots of very difficult to model parameters.

 

[Cyrus]

It is - especially in convertibles. I have had rental cars that were unusable if you had any window open even a crack.
It's also extremely difficult to model with CFD, it's not just the pressure value - it's the frequency, the rate of change - lots of very difficult to model parameters.

Von Karman laughs at you.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

BMW built this wind tunnel because road noise is an important customer metric.

The criteria was to sound cool, not quiet. Making cars quiet is a long-standing design feature.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

so maybe a return to their roots is in order ?

It would suffice to make a competitive, reliable product; and preferably something that weighs less than two tons. I don't care if my car talks to me or sounds cool if it spends a signficant percentage of its life in the shop.

 

[Cyrus]

It would suffice to make a competitive, reliable product; and preferably something that weighs less than two tons. I don't care if my car talks to me or sounds cool if it spends a signficant percentage of its life in the shop.

Yeah, but the guy in the Escalade next to you will be green with Envy. It's the Amurikan way!

 

[MotoH]

America, F***-YEAH!

 

[mgb_phys]

Von Karman laughs at you.

Wind noise is very difficult to model, the amount of power needed to make a noise is very small compared to the amount of drag needed to affect the performance.
And even if you could model the very small instabilities produced by things like wiper blades you then have to model the psycho-acoustic effects - there aren't many CFD codes that will tell you whether a certain pressure value will sound like a throaty roar or an annoying rumble to a certain driver.

 

[Proton Soup]

It would suffice to make a competitive, reliable product; and preferably something that weighs less than two tons. I don't care if my car talks to me or sounds cool if it spends a signficant percentage of its life in the shop.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/ford_recalls_2010_mustang

 

[Ivan Seeking]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/ford_recalls_2010_mustang

V6: 18 / 26 mpg
V8: 16 / 24 mpg
http://autos.yahoo.com/2010_ford_mustang/

Cool toys for girls and boys, but just another niche product. Ford has always been strong in 1960's technology. :zzz: