I think i want to try linux out

[Quadruple Bypass]

So after punching my computer and sending it to the repair place, i figure they will have to reformat it. I am thinking about doing a double OS (forgot what the term is) with Win XP Media Center edition and some distro of linux. i have a couple of questions though.

1. Which linux should i use? I am going to be doing a lot of video editing and using progs llike MATLAB and solidworks. i assume those 2 progs won't work on it. anyways, I am new to linux.

2. can i somehow network the linux computer to my other windows xp PC's so i can share files?

 

[CRGreathouse]

double OS (forgot what the term is)

Dual boot.

 

[neutrino]

1. Which linux should i use? I am going to be doing a lot of video editing and using progs llike MATLAB and solidworks. i assume those 2 progs won't work on it. anyways, I am new to linux.

Ubuntu was what was recommended to me first, and that's what I've been using for nearly a year. Doesn't give me problem...of course, my computer's hardware is neither new nor very old (okay, there might be a few tech-junkies out there who may not agree with that. :tongue2:), so everything seems to go smoothly, except for a few problems with display every now and then. (I'm sure it's the 6yo graphics card.)

Of course which distro (short for '(Linux) distribution') you should use depends on what you want to use it for. According to the http://www.mathworks.com/products/availability/Linux_x86.html , the program should work in the Linux environment. This is a pretty useful site for you to look through the list of various distros available.Ubuntu (and a few other distros) provides what is known as a LiveCD. You can actually preview what you'll be installing. Download and burn the .iso file onto a CD or DVD, and restart the comp and boot from the CD/DVD, and you'll have a working desktop, but nothing would have been installed in your computer. If you like, you can proceed to install the whole thing later.

Also you should take some care while trying to dual boot (install two different OS's) in the computer. http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/

Once you have a linux desktop running, you can download the guides to learn the basics of Linux and shell scriptshere.

2. can i somehow network the linux computer to my other windows xp PC's so i can share files?

I'm not sure but, I think you should be able to do that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

thanks for the replies. well i have used knoppix live cd before, and about 4 years ago i installed red hat and windows 2000 on one computer. despite all that, i have used linux in total for about 5 hrs lol its a relief to see that MATLAB works though

ill check out Ubuntu once i get my comp back and see what its about :)

 

[PerennialII]

Yeah, Matlab works in pretty much whatever linux distro better than in win (imho of course :tongue2: ) . The live cds/dvds are a good idea to start and ubuntu spreading as it is getting 'support' and finding answers is relatively easy. I think it's probably easiest to build a dual-boot system by first installing XP and leaving a free partition for installing linux, the after have gotten XP in there installing linux and a linux distro like ubuntu will take care of installing the boot loader after which the dual-boot system is complete (doing it this way around is I think the easiest way around)(a number of guides exist online how to do this, actually many are mentioned in various posts around Pf).

Linux has a working ntfs-3g driver which enables you to mount ntfs partitions which is the typical filesystem of win boxes. With full read & write abilities. Of course you can set up a samba server pretty easily on some computer which creates a network share you can access from both win & linux which makes living with both OSs really easy.

Once you get going with linux and play around for a while a neat way of getting really multiple OSs (if feel like it) is to get acquainted with virtualization, can install multiple OSs on top of one OS (for example)(I for one have my old win2003 server "running virtual" within my RH EL, but I don't have the system anymore on a separate disk/partition other than as a big image file of it. +A number of linux variants for testing platforms etc.).

 

[ranger]

1. Which linux should i use? I am going to be doing a lot of video editing and using progs llike MATLAB and solidworks. i assume those 2 progs won't work on it. anyways, I am new to linux.

2. can i somehow network the linux computer to my other windows xp PC's so i can share files?

1. I haven't had any problems with the linux version of Matlab. Solidworks works by installing the windows version using an API called wine and running it using the same API.

I've always been a fan of slackware and rpm based distors. So I would recommend that you try the very lite Zenwalk (slackware based).

2. It is fairly easy to share files between a networked linux and windows machines:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1376084&postcount=6
The above is the command line version. If you don't like it, use a GUI frontend like fusesmbtool.
It would be good if you have a separate fat32 partition to share files between your networked linux and windows box. Dont trust the linux ntfs driver!

Oh, if you're doing a dual boot. Install your windows OS first. It just makes things simpiler.

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

lol that was when i had to recover my data this summer! thanks

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

Here is another question. say i use one of those distros you guys suggested, what happens when they come out with a new version? will i have to reformat again to use it, or would it just update without loss of data?

 

[neutrino]

Here is another question. say i use one of those distros you guys suggested, what happens when they come out with a new version? will i have to reformat again to use it, or would it just update without loss of data?

With Ubuntu, you either do an upgrade via the internet, or download the new version's ALTERNATE CD(basically it's a non-GUI install CD, which does a few other things, as well.) Insert the CD while you're still working in Ubuntu, and assuming that you have installed all the updates, you can start the upgrade process immediately. It took me just under a couple of hours for the whole thing to get over and restart the system. (Feisty->Gutsy)

Also, they have LTS version (Long Term Support), which is supported for a longer period than other versions. This is for those who don't require bleeding-edge apps.

 

[PerennialII]

1. I haven't had any problems with the linux version of Matlab. Solidworks works by installing the windows version using an API called wine and running it using the same API.

I've always been a fan of slackware and rpm based distors. So I would recommend that you try the very lite Zenwalk (slackware based).

2. It is fairly easy to share files between a networked linux and windows machines:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1376084&postcount=6
The above is the command line version. If you don't like it, use a GUI frontend like fusesmbtool.
It would be good if you have a separate fat32 partition to share files between your networked linux and windows box. Dont trust the linux ntfs driver!

Oh, if you're doing a dual boot. Install your windows OS first. It just makes things simpiler.

Solidworks working under wine? Haven't tried since was sure it wouldn't, but will try now (using native pro/e usually). What you've got against the ntfs driver? I've thought the latest versions are 'pretty solid' and are included e.g. in ubuntu distros (not quite sure if already in latest or next upcoming ones).

 

[neutrino]

ntfs-3g is included in Gutsy (current version).

 

[pwhitey86]

solidworks in wine... not yet

Check out the wine app db:

not quite there yet: extruding crashes it
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?bShowAll=true&bIsQueue=false&bIsRejected=false&sClass=version&sTitle=&sReturnTo=&iId=8983

 

[ranger]

Solidworks working under wine? Haven't tried since was sure it wouldn't, but will try now (using native pro/e usually). What you've got against the ntfs driver? I've thought the latest versions are 'pretty solid' and are included e.g. in ubuntu distros (not quite sure if already in latest or next upcoming ones).

I only made a quick glance at the wine apps database. Looks like there's varied levels of success depending on which version you're using. I myself have never tried it.
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=318

I would only use the ntfs driver to read from ntfs partitions, not write to them. If you look http://www.ntfs-3g.org/quality.html , you'll see claims and testimonials praising the stability of the current stable release.
If you look at the ntfs-3g forums, you'll see the problems that people are having. For now I'll keep all data to be shared on a fat32 partition/drive. I cannot run the risk of my data being accidentally overwritten; not written at all; or having the ntfs filesystem not recognized by windows.

 

[fargoth]

yep, Ubuntu is my favorite distribution..

the most distinguishing feature among distributions is the package handling mechanism:

*the Debian based distributions (Ubuntu is one of them) use .deb packages, and apt-get - i find it very easy to install and manage my installed programs with apt-get (or synaptic - the GUI frontend of apt-get).
*the redhat based distributions use RPM packages, there are several tools for RPM packages - yum, Yast, urpmi, smart and now apt-get can handle them too... i don't know how using this packaging system is right now, but two years ago when i used it with SUSE it was quite annoying... i had to look across the net to find the right version of everything so that my new program would install...
*the slackware based distributions don't have a package manager - they just decompress a tar.gz file which contain the source, and type ./configure, make and make install to install their packages - it takes some time to compile these packages and it fails more then never.
*the Gentoo based distributions use emerge, it also compiles the packages, but it's more sophisticated then slackware.

these are the major package handling mechanisms in linux distributions as far as i know.

it's nice to try many distribution and compare them to each other - if you have the time...
I recommend Ubuntu, but have a look here and see their recommendation.



as for MATLAB - i use ipython with scipy and pylab - you should check it out... it covers all my MATLAB needs.

 

[ranger]

*the slackware based distributions don't have a package manager - they just decompress a tar.gz file which contain the source, and type ./configure, make and make install to install their packages - it takes some time to compile these packages and it fails more then never.

This is incorrect. Well at least the way the comment was phrased. There is a package management system. Slackware and slackware derived systems use the native .tgz file (slackware package). You can install, upgrade, remove, etc such files like you would on a rpm or dep distro. using tools such as installpkg, removepkg, etc (lookup pkgtools). There is also something similar to apt-get, yum, and the like. Its called netpkg. I believe that slapt-get is also similar. Its not always ./configure, make, make install

 

[fargoth]

This is incorrect. Well at least the way the comment was phrased. There is a package management system. Slackware and slackware derived systems use the native .tgz file (slackware package). You can install, upgrade, remove, etc such files like you would on a rpm or dep distro. using tools such as installpkg, removepkg, etc (lookup pkgtools). There is also something similar to apt-get, yum, and the like. Its called netpkg. I believe that slapt-get is also similar. Its not always ./configure, make, make install

i stand corrected.
do these pkgtools solve dependencies?

 

[ranger]

i stand corrected.
do these pkgtools solve dependencies?

Well if I were to install a slackware package using installpkg, it would not do any dependency checking. You are left to resolve deps on your own. This is because these packages where not designed to be dependency aware. However, if I were to use a networked based tool such as netpkg to install a slack package, it would do dependency checking and fetch those deps if needed.

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

I recommend Ubuntu, but have a look here and see their recommendation.

hmm the ones that came up for me were kubuntu, mandriva, ubuntu, opensuse. I am not going to lie, you guys have me sold on unbuntu for right now. i can't wait til i get my computer (i hope they reformatted it so i don't have to worry about trying to save some old files lol) and get to try it out :)

now only question for myself is how should i split the HD :p

 

[ranger]

I doubt you'd want to use the command line (fdisk or cfdisk). You can use tools such as partition magic. But I've heard that people hold gparted in high regards. You can google for a suitable tutorial on using this tool. I believe that ubuntu uses gparted so maybe you can make your life miserable by partitioning from the ubuntu liveCD.

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

oops, i meant, the ratio, should it be 50/50? that sounds good right now.

 

[PerennialII]

...I'd endorse & suggest using gparted, don't know of a better tool for doing what you're after (and have understood works well + never had an issue with it). For multiboot getting a large enough drive solves many potential issues in the long run, although for linux adding new drives via lvm when run out of space makes life easy.

I only made a quick glance at the wine apps database. Looks like there's varied levels of success depending on which version you're using. I myself have never tried it.
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=318

I would only use the ntfs driver to read from ntfs partitions, not write to them. If you look http://www.ntfs-3g.org/quality.html , you'll see claims and testimonials praising the stability of the current stable release.
If you look at the ntfs-3g forums, you'll see the problems that people are having. For now I'll keep all data to be shared on a fat32 partition/drive. I cannot run the risk of my data being accidentally overwritten; not written at all; or having the ntfs filesystem not recognized by windows.

Got to test the solidworks install if could get it going even that well, one of the 'few' annoying apps without a native.

Yeah, don't know if the ntfs-3g issues are "normal" (issues are always there) or whether should be "worried" about it. Sure since it's filesystem related caution is probably a good idea. Personally have 2 drives attached to a linux box with it which haven't caused issues during the year they've been co-used (for example Server2003 root drive). Although primarily sharing data between linux and virtual-XPs via samba nowadays.

 

[neutrino]

I also recommend that you burn a copy of the SystemRescueCD. (Just to be on the safer side ;)...but it might help you rescue Windows later.)

 

[fargoth]

if you're going to use Ubuntu, there's no need to partition the hard disk before you start the installation process.
Ubuntu makes it very easy to partition the drive - and even more so if you just want to resize the current windows partition and create a partition for Ubuntu (it's just a matter of moving the slide to the wanted ratio and clicking next...)

and DON'T use partition magic...

to advise you about the size for each OS i'll have to know the size of your HD.
but if you have more then 100GB I'd recommend using 30GB for Ubuntu, 30GB for Windows (but you probably know better then me how much space your programs take), and make the rest a neutral drive (I'd use NTFS for it, because i never had trouble with ntfs-3g, and i got all my data backed-up anyway, but you could use FAT32 if you're paranoid and want to defrag it once a month...)

install all the programs to the OS specific partitions, and store all the data in the neutral partition.

 

[fargoth]

I also recommend that you burn a copy of the SystemRescueCD. (Just to be on the safer side ;)...but it might help you rescue Windows later.)

I can't see why he'd need to use this CD...
Ubuntu is already a live-CD and can be used to fix the system... and if it was just the Main Boot Record that got broken (which is the most common problem with a dual boot) - he just has to insert his windows CD, get into the recovery console, and type fixmbr or fixboot...

anyway, I installed Ubuntu many times in the last two years (on many different computers, there was only one computer which i had to re-install - just to upgrade from 5.04 to 6.06) - and it never gave me any trouble.

 

[neutrino]

Well, I'm not saying Linux will break his machine. It's always good to have something like this ready. I have this burnt because I only download the alternate install CD, and I'd prefer some graphical interface to "rescue" my computer, if the need arises.

 

[PerennialII]

Don't rescuecd and knoppix for example exceed a typical live-cd/dvd in tools available for various typical system rescue related tasks (for example in a multiboot environment where need to work on a particular os / filesystem)? That's my take at least -- and I never leave home without having knoppix dvd with me .

 

[Thrice]

I'll second* the rescue disk. I used a different one, but they're helpful. I also highly recommend that he image his windows partition if he's not done so already.

*edit: make that third.

 

[ranger]

Don't rescuecd and knoppix for example exceed a typical live-cd/dvd in tools available for various typical system rescue related tasks (for example in a multiboot environment where need to work on a particular os / filesystem)? That's my take at least -- and I never leave home without having knoppix dvd with me .

Knoppix has gotten that big that it needs a dvd? You're screwed if you need to rescue a comp without a dvd drive :)

 

[fargoth]

hmmm... Ubuntu live-cd can read/write every filesystem he could be using - so he can backup / fix everything if the partitions are ok (and even send it to other computers in a network or upload his files to website)... and if the partitions get screwed he can use parted or fdisk.

what else do you need a rescue disk for? assuming it's not a hardware failure you want to diagnose.

 

[Thrice]

Knoppix has gotten that big that it needs a dvd? You're screwed if you need to rescue a comp without a dvd drive :)

Arguably, computers without dvd drives don't deserve rescuing. :p

 

[PerennialII]

hmmm... Ubuntu live-cd can read/write every filesystem he could be using - so he can backup / fix everything if the partitions are ok (and even send it to other computers in a network or upload his files to website)... and if the partitions get screwed he can use parted or fdisk.

what else do you need a rescue disk for? assuming it's not a hardware failure you want to diagnose.

yeah, would think live cds do a good job in most cases, but when a system 'really' crashes the tools contained in "rescue disks" can be invaluable when the "panic hits".

Arguably, computers without dvd drives don't deserve rescuing. :p

:rofl: Knoppix still has the cd version sure, but the dvd has so many goodies :tongue2: .

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

well good and bad news, they will be replacing my computer. now more than likely, it will be coming with windows vista :(

 

[fargoth]

I don't see how another gift OS (be it as bad as vista) is bad news... you can easily remove it and install whatever you like.

unless you pay for it.. in which case they can't make you do it (can they?).

 

[Quadruple Bypass]

I don't see how another gift OS (be it as bad as vista) is bad news... you can easily remove it and install whatever you like.

unless you pay for it.. in which case they can't make you do it (can they?).

no I am just worried that ill get hooked on vista and won't give linux a shot.

 

[fargoth]

no I am just worried that ill get hooked on vista and won't give linux a shot.

I don't think trying linux out should be a move motivated -only- from the fact that you don't like your MS OS.
even when it was not good enough to be a replacement for the desktop user, I enjoyed trying different distributions out just to learn new things, and see the advancement over time... (i also tried BeOS when it was still alive, and the variants of BSD, and tried every user interface i heard about...)

with that said, apart from it's nice interface, vista has some very annoying behavior... I'll give you one example (the one that eventually got my friend to install XP over vista) we tried to watch a movie on a pc with vista - and it lagged - this computer had a E6700 processor, 4 GB of ram and geforce 8800 gts 320mb... true, it was also sharing files via bittorrent, but i can do both things on my p4 1.5ghz with 512 ram and have no lags at all with whatever operating system - apart from vista...
and there are these posts around news sites (not just reader's comments, actual news items) which report vista locks itself because it thinks your vista is not genuine when you replace a video card... just google it up, vista has lots of bad press around it.

oh, and i find maintaining Ubuntu is much easier for me.. i don't have to deal with spyware (and most "freeware" for windows contain unpleasant surprises) , and installation of applications and libraries is much easier... as a developer on windows, i find myself compiling many libraries on my own (with many different mechanisms) - it's even worse then it used to be for linux before i got to know apt...