A silly thought i had while sitting through a geology lecture

In summary: Cremation is the only mindful option.Not sure if that's what you meant to say. In summary, when we die, our bodies are broken down and the composing elements and compounds are reintroduced into the Earth's natural cycles. The process of decomposition occurs over time, and metal caskets are airtight while wooden caskets are not. There is a bit of sentimentality involved in our desire to control death, and cremation is the only mindful option.
  • #1
1MileCrash
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We got on the subject of types of rocks, some formed by the carcasses of marine animals on the sea floor.

When organisms die, the body is chemically and physically broken down and the composing elememts and compounds are reintroduced into the Earth's natural cycles. Eg all of the organism is reused within Earth's closed system.

We humans have funerals and burials in which our bodies are preserved and sealed in an airtight casket. Our composing substances are not reintroduced into Earth's system (at least not for the forseeable future, eventually, of course).

Does that seem a little "selfish" or self-important of us? :P
 
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  • #2
1MileCrash said:
We humans have funerals and burials in which our bodies are preserved and sealed in an airtight casket. Our composing substances are not reintroduced into Earth's system (at least not for the forseeable future, eventually, of course).

Not so, caskets aren't air tight and do decompose. They are only sealed in so far as they are nailed shut.

Once in the ground, moisture is free to enter and decomposition will occur.

It will take a certain amount of time for the casket and contents to fully break down (assuming a standard wooden casket), but it will do so within a fairly short time (we're talking a matter of years at most).

Some older caskets (lead for example) still survive, but the contents do not.
 
  • #3
Some caskets are indeed airtight. Decomposition still occurs ( and is sometimes faster ) due to anaerobic bacteria but the decomposed material remains in the casket unless the "body" is exhumed.
 
  • #4
1MileCrash said:
Some caskets are indeed airtight. Decomposition still occurs ( and is sometimes faster ) due to anaerobic bacteria but the decomposed material remains in the casket unless the "body" is exhumed.

Only to special order. Standard caskets (used the most in western burials) are wooden and not sealed.
 
  • #5
Interesting: http://www.memorials.com/Caskets-Metal-Caskets-information.php

Didn't know that. Metal is more popular. Not sure if they're sealed though.

EDIT: Then again - http://hubpages.com/hub/Wood-Caskets-Are-Protective-Most-Appealing-You-Can-Find-One-Online [Broken] this says wood is more popular.

I don't think anyone really knows.
 
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  • #6
1MileCrash said:
We humans have funerals and burials in which our bodies are preserved and sealed in an airtight casket.
I'm more concerned about the embalming process. After a lifetime of eating other beings, we ought give them a swipe at us. But embalming ruins a lot of it.
 
  • #7
Further research seems to indicate that metal caskets are air tight and wooden are not (generally).

Not sure anymore.
 
  • #8
1MileCrash said:
Does that seem a little "selfish" or self-important of us? :P

Sure. Then again, humans are not a large part of the biomass of the planet, so their contribution is more principle than practice.
 
  • #9
1MileCrash said:
We got on the subject of types of rocks, some formed by the carcasses of marine animals on the sea floor.

When organisms die, the body is chemically and physically broken down and the composing elememts and compounds are reintroduced into the Earth's natural cycles. Eg all of the organism is reused within Earth's closed system.
We humans have funerals and burials in which our bodies are preserved and sealed in an airtight casket. Our composing substances are not reintroduced into Earth's system (at least not for the forseeable future, eventually, of course).

Does that seem a little "selfish" or self-important of us? :P

Not to be nit-picky, but the Earth is not really a closed system.

I don't think it's a sign of selfishness, but denial. We want to control death somehow by stopping or slowing decomposition. Death is the end of life, but decomposition sort of like the full-stop end of everything. It's hard to accept.
 
  • #10
lisab said:
I don't think it's a sign of selfishness, but denial. We want to control death somehow by stopping or slowing decomposition. Death is the end of life, but decomposition sort of like the full-stop end of everything. It's hard to accept.

There's truth to that.

I would add that there is also an element of sentimentality, if we consider how we want to bury our loved ones. I could care less what happens to my body when I die (let the worms or the crows eat me), but if I lay a loved one to rest, I don't want to think of their body defiled in that way. It's painful to think about.
 
  • #11
I think I'll just rent.

Both the graveplot and the casket.
 
  • #12
BobG said:
I think I'll just rent.

Both the graveplot and the casket.
They kind of do that in Japan due to the limited amount of land. The person is buried for a few years then the bones are dug up and put into a smaller contaner. This has been a practice in many cultures for thousands of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossuary
 
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  • #13
Cremation is the only mindful option.
 
  • #14
I've told my kids, "when I die, just feed me to the pigs."

Then have a barbecue!
 
  • #15
I think we live in such a mobile society that cemeteries are obsolete.

My mom is buried in Kansas.

My dad lives in Louisiana. I live in Colorado. My sister lives in Mississippi. My brother lives in Oregon.

No one ever visits her gravesite.
 
  • #16
HallsofIvy said:
I've told my kids, "when I die, just feed me to the pigs."

Then have a barbecue!

It seems there is an unnecessary step in there somewhere. As scientists, we must always consider efficiency. :smile:
 
  • #17
BobG said:
I think we live in such a mobile society that cemeteries are obsolete.

My mom is buried in Kansas.

My dad lives in Louisiana. I live in Colorado. My sister lives in Mississippi. My brother lives in Oregon.

No one ever visits her gravesite.
My parents bought a cemetary plot for 4 when I was little. Then I had two more sisters come along 7 and 16 years later. Then my parents decided to be cremated, and only one sister still lives in Houston. I think carrying your relatives around in small boxes or jars will become more popular in the US. In the case of multiple siblings living apart, you could divy up the remains so everyone has some. Or take turns.
 
  • #18
Evo said:
My parents bought a cemetary plot for 4 when I was little. Then I had two more sisters come along 7 and 16 years later. Then my parents decided to be cremated, and only one sister still lives in Houston. I think carrying your relatives around in small boxes or jars will become more popular in the US. In the case of multiple siblings living apart, you could divy up the remains so everyone has some. Or take turns.
Or take urns. :biggrin:
 
  • #19
DaveC426913 said:
Cremation is the only mindful option.
Well - vultures are also.
 
  • #20
stevenb said:
It seems there is an unnecessary step in there somewhere. As scientists, we must always consider efficiency. :smile:

:rofl:
 
  • #21
Astronuc said:
Or take urns. :biggrin:
:rofl:
 
  • #22
HallsofIvy said:
I've told my kids, "when I die, just feed me to the pigs."

Then have a barbecue!

stevenb said:
It seems there is an unnecessary step in there somewhere. As scientists, we must always consider efficiency. :smile:

From a financial view point, I'm a strong believer of dollar cost averaging. Instead of doing the whole body barbecue all at once, I would recommend barbecuing one half before the death, and the other half after.

Overall, keeping some for feeding pigs, some for barbecue, some before death, some after, seems like a well diversified portfolio. :smile:
 
  • #23
Is no one donating their body to science? I personally think that should be the default, and you opt out if you do not want to. There is more incentive to opt out than in, I think.
 
  • #24
nobahar said:
Is no one donating their body to science? I personally think that should be the default, and you opt out if you do not want to. There is more incentive to opt out than in, I think.
Both of my parents did, that's why the cremation.
 
  • #25
nobahar said:
Is no one donating their body to science?

I'm an organ donor, although my goal is to live so long that the remains get rejected by the QA department. :smile: Actually, my kidneys are already diseased and unsuitable for transplant, so I'm making good progress.

I do like your idea of making donating the default, although it makes for difficult policies and problematic situations. I think that those against it will be much more motivated to opt out without delay, and many of those for it will procrastinate 1 day too long before opting in.

A good recent trend (at least in my state) is for the Dept. of Motor Vehicles to ask your preference when you renew your drivers license and to put a little heart symbol on your license if you opt in. I think your family still needs to sign off if the unfortunate event occurs, but it gets the process started and the conversations going. And, there is no doubt about the prospective donor's wishes. (EDIT: Wait a minute, the DMV is involved, so some doubt will remain.)
 
  • #26
My father went to medical school, ostensibly for 4 years, when he croaked. After about 7 years, we got curious and phoned them to find out where he was. They apologized for the delay, and said that he was so interesting that they were still studying him, then asked if they could keep him a while longer. We said "Sure; just let us know when you're done with him." After another 5 or 6 years, he showed up by courier in a small cardboard box and spent the next 10 years out on my front porch. I finally gave him to my youngest brother, and have no idea what he did with him. I think that he buried him under a tree on his farm, but I'm not sure. Bill died almost 5 years ago, so I never got a chance to ask him.
My mother, who would have turned 98 today, died just over a year ago. She was too decrepit to be useful scientifically, so she was just cremated and now resides in my china cabinet. Things were a bit more up-scale this time; she arrived in a plastic box rather than cardboard.
For me: harvest all functional organs (if I have any); study the remainder, then burn.
Evo, I still like your Tibetan vulture funeral for the elegance and natural beauty of it, but I'd prefer to be somewhat useful to other humans in death since I haven't been in life.
 
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  • #27
1MileCrash said:
We got on the subject of types of rocks, some formed by the carcasses of marine animals on the sea floor.

When organisms die, the body is chemically and physically broken down and the composing elememts and compounds are reintroduced into the Earth's natural cycles. Eg all of the organism is reused within Earth's closed system.

We humans have funerals and burials in which our bodies are preserved and sealed in an airtight casket. Our composing substances are not reintroduced into Earth's system (at least not for the forseeable future, eventually, of course).

Does that seem a little "selfish" or self-important of us? :P

Let me get this right. Our bodies are on loan from Mother Earth. Our very elements are from the life giving elements provided Our Blessed Mother to whom we owe our very existence. We are indebted to return Her, Her Precious Resources for the benefit of all future life Our Mother shall bring forth.

I suggest you quit school, to better obtain an education. Something seems to have gone horribly wrong with the hiring process.
 
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  • #28
Phrak said:
Let me get this right. Our bodies are on loan from Mother Earth. Our very elements are from the life giving elements provided Our Blessed Mother to whom we owe our very existence. We are indebted to return Her, Her Precious Resources for the benefit of all future life Our Mother shall bring forth.

I suggest you quit school, to better obtain an education. Something seems to have gone horribly wrong with the hiring process.

Man, whoever peed on your Corn Flakes this morning, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the OP. You're being kinda mean (in a PF violation kind of way).

And disingenuous. You're implying whole dewey-eyed aspect that I don't think the OP meant.
 

1. What was the silly thought you had during the geology lecture?

The silly thought I had while sitting through a geology lecture was wondering if rocks have feelings and if they get bored just sitting around all day.

2. Did the geology lecture trigger any other silly thoughts?

Yes, the lecture also made me wonder if rocks have conversations with each other and if they have their own version of gossip.

3. Why did you have these silly thoughts during a scientific lecture?

I think my mind was trying to find a way to make the lecture more entertaining and relatable to my daily life.

4. Do you think there is any scientific basis for your silly thoughts?

No, there is no scientific evidence to support the idea that rocks have feelings or can communicate with each other. It was just a silly thought that crossed my mind.

5. Has this silly thought affected your understanding of geology?

Not at all. While it may have briefly distracted me during the lecture, I still understand and appreciate the scientific concepts being taught in geology.

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