How would we know if a new species evolved

  • Thread starter CramerTV
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In summary, the concept of a new species evolving is a complex and debatable topic. The definition of a species itself is not clear cut, and there are instances where different species can produce fertile offspring. The idea of a 'ring species' challenges the traditional notion of a species as a discreet unit. DNA analysis is making it difficult to assess species based solely on physical characteristics, and the emerging field of dna barcoding is shedding light on the true diversity of life on Earth. While we may never observe a new species evolving, we can use scientific techniques to better understand and identify the vast array of living species.
  • #1
CramerTV
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How would we know if a new species "evolved"

The title pretty much says it all. How would we define a new "species" of beetle, for example, as opposed to a new 'sub-species'.

The real question is, will we ever be able to 'prove' a new species has evolved according to Darwinian theory?

Thanks,
TC
 
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  • #2


Answer depends on the definition of species. But in general we assume once they are no longer able to reproduce (cross breed) they are different species.
 
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  • #4


When they can no longer produce fertile offspring. For example, horses and donkeys can mate, however the offspring is infertile
 
  • #5


CellsRcool said:
When they can no longer produce fertile offspring. For example, horses and donkeys can mate, however the offspring is infertile

Lions and Tigers can produce a fertile offspring. Do they belong to the same species?
 
  • #6


Abod said:
Lions and Tigers can produce a fertile offspring. Do they belong to the same species?

I think the requirement is that the species need to be able to produce a viable offspring that can breed. I don't think a Liger (tiger/lion) can produce off-spring
 
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  • #9


I wonder if two Liger's could mate to have another Liger? It sounded like they bred the Liger with another big cat
 
  • #10


I may get slammed for this. I hope I explain clearly.

'Species' is a model, it is taxonomists who, quite sensibly, try to find some order in the biomass. Nature didn't invent species, man did. People typically picture 'a species' as a truly discreet unit, I know simple definitions such as the ability to interbreed are often used as explained above; this is fine for generalising. Life and nature is more fuzzy than we would like the 'ring species' are a good example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
I think, I may be wrong, but in the same fashion as the species changes along a distance transect for the ring species, a temporal transect would show a similar pattern. By this I mean a sequence of organisms with very little difference between them spread out over time. When people talk of 'missing links; in fossil records or similar I think the confusion is based around the same misunderstanding.

We talk of visible light, IR, X-ray - these are 'species' in a sense. The EM spectrum is exactly that, a continuum. Scientist have spit it up into more convenient units, the cut off points between different types of EM radiation may be in places for good reason, but they aren't truly discreet since there is continuity between them.

DNA analysis is making taxonomists move the odd organism across entire groups, convergent evolution makes it difficult to assess a species on looks and habits alone. It also seems that there can be bigger (%)genetic differences within a population of a certain species than between some species.

I also see the concept of 'race' in a similar fashion. I don't really follow it so well as once again the lines between who is and isn't in a certain group aren't exactly scientific. Maybe we could make assessments based on Neanderthal/Denisovian DNA or lack of in a human? Least it would be less subjective.
 
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  • #11


Apologies - I missed TinyTim had linked ring-species. Well, I imagine you have food-for-thought!
 
  • #12


Abod said:

That's because neither lions nor tigers have any reproductive isolation mechanisms.
One question: Why the heck would a lion and a tiger mate? Edit: because of artificial selection. Although, how do you suppose a human could benefit from creating a lion-tiger hybrid? Other than to say "Look, I crossed two animal species!"
 
  • #13


moonman239 said:
Although, how do you suppose a human could benefit from creating a lion-tiger hybrid? Other than to say "Look, I crossed two animal species!"

Scientific research I would say.
 
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moonman239 said:
Although, how do you suppose a human could benefit from creating a lion-tiger hybrid? Other than to say "Look, I crossed two animal species!"
Off the top of my head increasing the knowledge and skills we have in hybridising animals may help through the development of humanised xenotransplants though that field was pretty much killed off just before the turn of the millennium due to worries over zoonosis.
 
  • #15


There is a new, emerging field called dna barcoding. This allows us to catalogue all living species just as we do any merchandise in a store. Each living species (plants, animals, fungi, etc.) has a region of their genome which is unique, the 'dna barcode', and this field is rapidly growing with more and more species being catalogued every day.

This interesting field has actually made some stark discoveries which will affect many areas of our lives moving forward. For example, many species which were once thought to be the same species were identified as actually being 2 different species (these are called cryptic species, they appear identical, but they are indeed different species).

Another interesting implication for example is the discovery of false ingredients in restaurant and packaged food. Mislabelled fish in sushi for example, or false ingredients in herbal teas. Recently, the FDA started using dna barcoding in regulating the importation of fish.

This technique could theoretically be employed to detect a new spcies, however I doubt we'll ever witness a species evolve. According to the theory, the changes which need to occur accumulate at a very very slow pace and speciation would typically take millions of years. And that's according to the theory, which, after all, is just that.
 
  • #16


however I doubt we'll ever witness a species evolve.

We witness it all the time. There are thousands of observed instances of speciation; it's nothing unusual.
 
  • #17


mel_c said:
This technique could theoretically be employed to detect a new spcies, however I doubt we'll ever witness a species evolve. According to the theory, the changes which need to occur accumulate at a very very slow pace and speciation would typically take millions of years. And that's according to the theory, which, after all, is just that.
You need to learn what a scientific theory is and also learn about what we have and haven't observed regarding speciation. It might help to read a topic before you wade in, would that you would have noticed someone above you linking to witnessed speciation...Edit: Note for the OP; it's not a matter of whether you can force to 'species' to hybridize. Whether they breed or don't isn't determined by man's meddling, rather by how they interact in the wild. Reproductive barriers (searchable term) keep two gene pools distinct from one another (good example see the Hawthorn flies). The essence of speciation is reproductive isolation (again searchable term).
 
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1. How do scientists determine if a new species has evolved?

Scientists determine if a new species has evolved through a process called speciation. This involves observing genetic and physical differences between two populations of a species that have become isolated from each other over time. If these differences are significant enough, it indicates that a new species has evolved.

2. Can we see evolution happening in real time?

Yes, we can see evolution happening in real time. This is often observed through changes in the traits and behaviors of a species over time. For example, bacteria evolving resistance to antibiotics or finches developing different beak shapes in response to changes in their environment.

3. How long does it take for a new species to evolve?

The process of speciation and the evolution of a new species can vary greatly in terms of time. It can take anywhere from a few thousand years to millions of years for a new species to evolve. The exact duration depends on factors such as genetic diversity, environmental pressures, and reproductive isolation.

4. What is the role of natural selection in the evolution of a new species?

Natural selection plays a crucial role in the evolution of a new species. It is the process by which individuals with favorable traits are more likely to survive and reproduce, passing on these traits to their offspring. Over time, this can lead to the development of new traits and eventually, speciation.

5. How do we know if a new species is successful in its environment?

Scientists determine the success of a new species by examining its population size, distribution, and reproductive success. A species that is thriving and adapting well to its environment is considered successful, while a species that is struggling to survive or reproduce may be at risk of extinction.

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