Water Does Not Leak Back To The Other Side.

  • Thread starter Dug Fmjamul
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Water
In summary: Pressure from the 3 gallon side acts to close the seals that were initially broken?Thanks, that sounds plausible. But if I gradually add water to the 7 gallon side would there be a point where the 3 Gallon side would start to release water to the 7 gallon side? I'm going to try that and see what happens.It is possible that there may be some small stones or obstacles near where the leak happens but only on one side. So this would allow water to flow more easily from one side to the other.
  • #1
Dug Fmjamul
4
0
I sealed with silicone and partitioned a 10 Gallon Aquarium with an 8 inch by 8 inch double glass plate with about 3 gallons on one side and 7 gallons on the other. The 3 gallon side was to be dry and filled with gravel and rocks, while the 7 gallon side would have a thin bottom layer of gravel and filled with water. After some time the water links over to the 3 gallon side until it is level with the water on the 7 gallon side. But when I drain the 7 gallon side of water the 3 gallon side does not leak over to the 7 gallon side and the water level does not drop.

Any clues as to the 'why'? Because I don't have any and I'm baffled why the water doesn't leak back over to the 7 gallon side.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
  • #2
You didn't seal it properly
 
  • #3
and the poor seal you did do is acting like a valve

Dave
 
  • #4
Dug Fmjamul said:
I sealed with silicone and partitioned a 10 Gallon Aquarium with an 8 inch by 8 inch double glass plate with about 3 gallons on one side and 7 gallons on the other. The 3 gallon side was to be dry and filled with gravel and rocks, while the 7 gallon side would have a thin bottom layer of gravel and filled with water. After some time the water links over to the 3 gallon side until it is level with the water on the 7 gallon side. But when I drain the 7 gallon side of water the 3 gallon side does not leak over to the 7 gallon side and the water level does not drop.

Any clues as to the 'why'? Because I don't have any and I'm baffled why the water doesn't leak back over to the 7 gallon side.

Welcome to the PF. Can you upload a picture of the setup? How did you brace the partition?
 
  • #5
To expand on previous posts, the water pressure is higher on the 7 gallon side than the 3 gallon side. Your seal may be good enough to handle the pressure on the 3 gallon side, but not good enough to handle the pressure on the 7 gallon side.

That said, I'm surprised the water would continue to leak until both sides were level.

Once initially broken in the direction from the 7 gallon side to the 3 gallon side, they fail to close up again as long as there is any water between the seal and the wall?

While in the opposite scenario, water on the 3 gallon side and none on the 7 gallon side, the pressure from the 3 gallon side acts to close the seals that were initially broken?
 
  • #6
Travis_King said:
You didn't seal it properly
I know that.
 
  • #7
davenn said:
and the poor seal you did do is acting like a valve

Dave
That makes sense, but a one-way valve?
 
  • #8
BobG said:
To expand on previous posts, the water pressure is higher on the 7 gallon side than the 3 gallon side. Your seal may be good enough to handle the pressure on the 3 gallon side, but not good enough to handle the pressure on the 7 gallon side.

That said, I'm surprised the water would continue to leak until both sides were level.

Once initially broken in the direction from the 7 gallon side to the 3 gallon side, they fail to close up again as long as there is any water between the seal and the wall?

While in the opposite scenario, water on the 3 gallon side and none on the 7 gallon side, the pressure from the 3 gallon side acts to close the seals that were initially broken?

Thanks, that sounds plausible. But if I gradually add water to the 7 gallon side would there be a point where the 3 Gallon side would start to release water to the 7 gallon side? I'm going to try that and see what happens.
 
  • #9
It is possible that there may be some small stones or obstacles near where the leak happens but only on one side. So this would allow allow water to flow more easily from one side to the other.
I don't really support the caging of fish or animals/birds. They have the same right to freedom as we do.
 
  • #10
Dug Fmjamul said:
That makes sense, but a one-way valve?

Similar to the valves in your heart.
Or the PCV in your car, a foot valve at the bottom of the pipe in a well, ...
 
  • #11
BobG said:
To expand on previous posts, the water pressure is higher on the 7 gallon side than the 3 gallon side. Your seal may be good enough to handle the pressure on the 3 gallon side, but not good enough to handle the pressure on the 7 gallon side.

How do you figure there is a pressure difference from one side to the other?
 
  • #12
Because one side is empty and the other is full?

Or are you asking why 7 gallons of water exerts more pressure on the divider than 3 gallons will when one side is full and the other is empty?

As straight forward as the question should seem to be, I'm pretty sure I don't really understand what you're asking.
 
Last edited:
  • #13
Bob, you aren't suggesting volume has anything to do with pressure, are you? The only thing that matters is the height of the water. (I got the same impression from reading your first post as well.)
 
Last edited:
  • #14
russ_watters said:
Bob, you aren't suggesting volume has anything to do with pressure, are you? The only thing that matters is the height of the water. (I got the same impression from reading your first post as well.)

Yes russ, I read that post the same way you do.
 
  • #15
While in the opposite scenario, water on the 3 gallon side and none on the 7 gallon side, the pressure from the 3 gallon side acts to close the seals that were initially broken?
Because one side is empty and the other is full?

Or are you asking why 7 gallons of water exerts more pressure on the divider than 3 gallons will when one side is full and the other is empty?

i think it can be assumed that with one side full and the other empty the full side exerts more pressure than the empty side.

after all the questioner does state
After some time the water links over to the 3 gallon side until it is level with the water on the 7 gallon side. But when I drain the 7 gallon side of water the 3 gallon side does not leak over to the 7 gallon side and the water level does not drop.
Since after the water equalizes in height of both sides, there had to be more pressure on the 7 gallon side than the 3 gallon side.
i don't see any reference to pressure being a result of volume.
 
  • #16
256bits said:
i think it can be assumed that with one side full and the other empty the full side exerts more pressure than the empty side.

after all the questioner does state

Since after the water equalizes in height of both sides, there had to be more pressure on the 7 gallon side than the 3 gallon side.
i don't see any reference to pressure being a result of volume.

I DO see a reference to it and I want to know if I am missing something because I think it is pretty common knowledge that the height of the water is what determines the pressure. Obviously the 7 gallon side will have more pressure than the 3 gallon side when the 3 gallon side is lower than the 7 gallon side. But it seemed to me that it was implied that the 3 gallon side does not develop the same pressure in reverse when the 7 gallon side is lower than the 3 gallon side.
-
This is the statement in question:
To expand on previous posts, the water pressure is higher on the 7 gallon side than the 3 gallon side. Your seal may be good enough to handle the pressure on the 3 gallon side, but not good enough to handle the pressure on the 7 gallon side.
-
So what is it? Did I miss something?
 
  • #17
the 7 gallons side leaks to the 3 gallon side ( originally empty) until both are of the same height. Then the 7 gallon side is drained and water does not leak from the 3 gallon side to the 7 gallon side. The original height h of the 7 gallon side would have to have been greater than the starting h of the 3 gallon side. That is how I interpreted the original scenario and carried that along from post to post.

It is cumbersome to be calling the containers the 7 gallon side and 3 gallon side.

I am not saying my interpretation is any more correct than yours - just that I did not notice any problem with the statements. You and Russ did. Now I tend to wonder by polling readers what the percentage of readers would see it either way. I cringe at the possibility of being a lonely minority of 1.

Other than Bob coming in with his explanation.
 
  • #18
Ok 256. I was just wondering if I misunderstood the setup. Yes it is a cumbersome description.
 
  • #19
BobG said:
Because one side is empty and the other is full?

Or are you asking why 7 gallons of water exerts more pressure on the divider than 3 gallons will when one side is full and the other is empty?

As straight forward as the question should seem to be, I'm pretty sure I don't really understand what you're asking.

russ_watters said:
Bob, you aren't suggesting volume has anything to do with pressure, are you? The only thing that matters is the height of the water. (I got the same impression from reading your first post as well.)

Pressure isn't solely straight down (or you wouldn't need the divider at all). Surely the lateral pressure on the glass (which would actually cause the leaking) would be greater the greater the amount of mass the glass divider is holding back. I'm not actually sure, since that's something that seems so obvious that I really haven't thought about it that much.

Edit: Or, the total amount of mass doesn't matter. That seems very counter-intuitive. Obviously, it couldn't be a straight linear relationship, since inserting a hollow tube into the ocean would be holding back the entire ocean, but I'm surprised it doesn't seem to matter at all (at least in a few minutes of browsing).
 
Last edited:
  • #20
BobG said:
Pressure isn't solely straight down (or you wouldn't need the divider at all). Surely the lateral pressure on the glass (which would actually cause the leaking) would be greater the greater the amount of mass the glass divider is holding back. I'm not actually sure, since that's something that seems so obvious that I really haven't thought about it that much.

Edit: Or, the total amount of mass doesn't matter. That seems very counter-intuitive. Obviously, it couldn't be a straight linear relationship, since inserting a hollow tube into the ocean would be holding back the entire ocean, but I'm surprised it doesn't seem to matter at all (at least in a few minutes of browsing).

It may be instructive to try and understand why there should be a sideways force in the first place. For eg., if you try to stack a pile of bricks on the floor one on top of the other they would be in stable equilibrium and not require any sideways force. Now if we try to stack a column of water on the floor, its not going to stay that way. Its going to spill. Now let's try the same thing with marbles. It is theoretically possible to stack the marbles with all their centres in a straight vertical line so that they would be in unstable equilibrium and not require a sideways force to keep them in equilibrium. But in practice for the majority of the number of ways in which the stacking can take place this would not be the case. For any two marbles whose centers are not aligned in the same vertical line there would be a sideways force. If you look at a marble which is in the interior, on an average the horizontal forces from all directions would cancel out. But if you look at one at the side, there would be a net outward horizontal force. This horizontal force would only depend on the weight of the marbles on top of it plus the force transmitted downwards (and sideways) by the ones above those. So it appears that it will depend only on the height and not on the total number of marbles.
Anyways this is just a rough example we don't know how water behaves at the molecular level (at least I don't!) but in practice we find that the pressure depends only on the height(depth) [itex]p = p_0 + \rho gh[/itex] so it appears that water behaves more similarly to marbles than bricks!
 

1. What is the scientific explanation for why water does not leak back to the other side?

The reason water does not leak back to the other side is due to the process of osmosis. This is when water molecules move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration. In the case of a barrier or membrane between two sides, the water will only move in one direction, creating a balance in concentration.

2. Does this phenomenon occur in all types of barriers or membranes?

Yes, the process of osmosis and the prevention of water leaking back to the other side occurs in all types of barriers or membranes, regardless of the material they are made of. This is a fundamental principle of the movement of water molecules.

3. Can water ever leak back to the other side?

In some cases, water may leak back to the other side if there is a higher pressure on one side of the barrier. This can happen due to external forces, such as the force of gravity or a pump, or if the barrier is damaged or compromised in some way.

4. What are the real-life applications of understanding why water does not leak back to the other side?

Understanding the process of osmosis and why water does not leak back to the other side has many applications in various industries. For example, it is the basis for water filtration systems, kidney function, and plant growth. It also helps us understand how to prevent water damage in structures like dams and other barriers.

5. Can this phenomenon be observed in everyday life?

Yes, this phenomenon can be observed in everyday life. For example, when you soak up a spill with a towel, the water will not leak back to the other side of the towel. This is because the towel acts as a barrier, and the water molecules move from the spill to the towel due to osmosis.

Similar threads

  • General Engineering
Replies
4
Views
4K
Replies
16
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • General Engineering
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
1K
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • General Engineering
Replies
9
Views
21K
Replies
8
Views
6K
  • DIY Projects
Replies
17
Views
3K
Back
Top