Infinite monkey's writing shakespeare possible?

[Erazman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3013959.stm

Lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth wanted to test the claim that an infinite number of monkeys given typewriters would create the works of The Bard.

A single computer was placed in a monkey enclosure at Paignton Zoo to monitor the literary output of six primates.

But after a month, the Sulawesi crested macaques had only succeeded in partially destroying the machine, using it as a lavatory, and mostly typing the letter "s".

The project, by students from the university's MediaLab Arts course, received £2,000 from the Arts Council.

The work was interesting but had little scientific value, except to show that the "infinite monkey" theory is flawed

Dr Amy Plowman, Paignton Zoo scientific officer
Director of the university's Institute of Digital Arts and Technology (i-DAT), Mike Phillips, denied the project was a disaster and said they had learned "an awful lot".

He also denied it had been a waste of money.

He said the £2,000 was spent on purchasing the hardware to set up a radio link so the activities in the enclosure could be watched live on a website.

"Compared to the cost of reality TV, this was a tiny pinch of money," he said.

"It provided very stimulating and fascinating viewing."

The six monkeys - Elmo, Gum, Heather, Holly, Mistletoe and Rowan - produced five pages of text which consisted mainly of the letter "s".

Book published

But towards the end of the experiment, their output slightly improved, with the letters A, J, L and M also appearing.

However, they failed to come up with anything that remotely resembled a word.

The results of the experiment formed part of a larger project developed by i-DAT.

They have been published in a limited edition book entitled Notes Towards The Complete Works of Shakespeare.




*** you'd think that with infinite monkey's, comes infinite possiblities. I really don't like this article, because of the lack of understanding what "infinity" really means. They're basing their conclusion on the fact that there is no randomness. Why should you need complete randomness if we're dealing with infinity? if there is infinity monkey's, then there are infinite monkeys much unlike Elmo, Gum, Heather, Holly, Mistletoe and Rowan who will actually take their time without SMASHING groups of letters at a time. There will be infinite monkey's who won't just hold down one key. There will be infinite monkey's who actually randomly pick keys on the typewriter. What do you guys think?

 

[Njorl]

There are good arguments against the infinite monkey theory. I came up with the problem of "monkey density" . How do we space the monkeys so that they don't collapse into a black hole? Given that spacing, and assuming that we are at the center of mass of the monkeys, and assuming that the monkeys' output is transmitted to us at c, should we expect the works of Sakespeare in the lifetime of the universe? I bet an infinite number of monkeys just ruins all the cosmological constant calculations!

Njorl

 

[selfAdjoint]

Well if you have a uniform density of an infinite number of monkeys, then your universe is open, possibly deSitter, and probably will have an infinite lifetime.

 

[Erazman]

exactly..it's not a matter of deciding whether these monkey's CAN exist, because by stating the monkey-typing-shakespeare theory, we assume they ALREADY exist...
and having 6 monkeys testing out a few pages has nothing to do with infiinity.

 

[Vast]

Holy Christ! How stupid! William Shakespeare was a monkey.

 

[wuliheron]

There are good arguments against the infinite monkey theory. I came up with the problem of "monkey density" . How do we space the monkeys so that they don't collapse into a black hole? Given that spacing, and assuming that we are at the center of mass of the monkeys, and assuming that the monkeys' output is transmitted to us at c, should we expect the works of Sakespeare in the lifetime of the universe? I bet an infinite number of monkeys just ruins all the cosmological constant calculations!

Njorl

If the information entropy is also proportional to the surface area, as some have proposed, the inverse may also be true. An infinite number of monkeys have already reproduced the works of Shakespear, but we must wait for them to randomly emerge from a black hole.

This may also explain all those missing socks...

 

[Humbucker]

Bill Shakespeare was just one man.A room full of monkeys is irrelavant.

 

[Njorl]

Bill Shakespeare was just one man.A room full of monkeys is irrelavant.

Irrelevant? Those are in the pachyderm area, not the primate house!

Hmmm... that joke just doesn't work in writing.

Njorl

 

[rayjohn01]

from a purely theoretical viewpoint there are people around who conjecture what might happen given infinite time -- but as far as I am aware there is no evidence of something called 'randomness' in that true sense , systems which appear random may in fact be chaotic with attraction centers such as the monkey 's'.

 

[JD]

Is the suggestion not flawed before it even begins?
I mean this in the sense of the infinite support systems that would be required. Are we allowing for mutations?
Sorry - perhaps I'm taking it too literally.
If it was somehow possible, I doubt that, even given infinite time (!) anything even vaguely approaching his works would precipitate.

 

[balkan]

someone should consider looking at the old saying as an explanation of uncertainty theory and not as a theory itself...
if you consider the monkeys as purely random number generators, it'd be true... of course, some may claim, that nothing is random...

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3013959.stm

Lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth wanted to test the claim that an infinite number of monkeys given typewriters would create the works of The Bard.

A single computer was placed in a monkey enclosure at Paignton Zoo to monitor the literary output of six primates.

But after a month, the Sulawesi crested macaques had only succeeded in partially destroying the machine, using it as a lavatory, and mostly typing the letter "s".

The project, by students from the university's MediaLab Arts course, received £2,000 from the Arts Council.

The work was interesting but had little scientific value, except to show that the "infinite monkey" theory is flawed

Dr Amy Plowman, Paignton Zoo scientific officer
Director of the university's Institute of Digital Arts and Technology (i-DAT), Mike Phillips, denied the project was a disaster and said they had learned "an awful lot".

He also denied it had been a waste of money.

He said the £2,000 was spent on purchasing the hardware to set up a radio link so the activities in the enclosure could be watched live on a website.

"Compared to the cost of reality TV, this was a tiny pinch of money," he said.

"It provided very stimulating and fascinating viewing."

The six monkeys - Elmo, Gum, Heather, Holly, Mistletoe and Rowan - produced five pages of text which consisted mainly of the letter "s".

Book published

But towards the end of the experiment, their output slightly improved, with the letters A, J, L and M also appearing.

However, they failed to come up with anything that remotely resembled a word.

The results of the experiment formed part of a larger project developed by i-DAT.

They have been published in a limited edition book entitled Notes Towards The Complete Works of Shakespeare.

do you think they tried to encode a message to us? perhaps they tried to tell the zoo keepers what they really think of them (ofcourse encoded).

now really that's waste of money.

 

[JD]

It would be asking a lot of a finite experiment to prove or disprove (if either can actually be done) an infinite theory.

 

[Dayle Record]

I think they are on to something. They are most certainly describing the authorship of most human social systems. This is just a micro project. The monkeys have a delicate instrument, and they use it as a toilet, and then come up with the first letter of a common term for feces, voila, their literature. On a global scale, human monkeys do about the same thing. The Earth, a very delicate instrument, is our toilet. We are so obsessed with this process, that we make things on a continuing basis so we can throw them away, and make new things to throw away. We are the crap masters.

 

[jimmy p]

Maybe in the language of Macaques, Shakespeare contains a lot of s's

 

[Sven Tingblad]

OK, first I'll take the "pure" scenario, i.e. the random number generator generating a specific number. If the generator can generate any number at all, and you want it to generate a specific number given infinite time, it almost certainly won't happen. You see, it can generate an infinite number of numbers, and it has infinite time to do it. To cover all numbers on the number line, it would have to always generate a new number and never repeat. Even so, it would never reach all numbers, because infinite time never ends, and there would always be infinite numbers not generated. Cool stuff happens when infinity takes on infinity in a head-to-head match. I think that if you choose a single number, like pi, 8, or 2.3451, the generator would not generate it just because its probability of being generated in extremely miniscule.

However, if you want the generator to generate a 36-digit long number, it will almost certainly happen. You see, there is only a finite set of 36-digit long numbers, and it will generate an infinite set of 36-digit long numbers. When infinite stuff takes on finite stuff, it's not a fight; it's a slaughter.

Now I'll take on the question of the monkeys themselves. However, these monkeys aren't just any ordinary simians; they never die, they don't collapse into each other and form a black hole (although that's a cool mental image), they don't destroy the typewriters, and they never ever take a break from typing. In short, they are a highly specialized race of SuperMonkeys. Now, we will say that they completed the task when they type all the works of Shakespeare, no matter what comes before it or after it. They can type a bunch of "s"s and "q"s after the last period of his works, for all I care. The entire works of Shakespeare is essentially a finite group of letters. For the sake of arguement, let's say that the set is 100,000 letters long. That's still a finite set. Plus, there's only a finite set of 100,000-letter-long sets. We're sort of talking about a finite set of finite sets. There are only so many ways to bring 100,000 letters (a finite set) together. The monkeys, even just one monkey, will type an infinite set of 100,000 letter-long sets. This time, infinite stuff meets a tag team of two sets of finite stuff. Still, it's no contest. The SuperMonkeys will type it.

Now ordinary monkeys are another matter entirely. They will just type a bunch of "s"s, break the typewriters, and form a huge balck hole. With our universe's laws of physics, it couldn't possibly happen. However, in the pure SuperMonkey universe, it can and will.

 

[AKG]

The latest scientific research actually suggests that the black holes currently existing in our universe were really planets where foolish yet curious people put an infinite number of monkey-like creatures to the task of writing a Shakespeare-like play, and of course, they collapsed to form the black holes we now see today.

 

[Pergatory]

That's it! I've heard enough of this madness! The monkeys must be stopped!

I propose setting up a rebel faction of terrorist scientists to oppose the rising force of typewriter monkeys. I suggest our immediate course of action should be an attempt to secure all typewriter-related assets thusfar manufactured and eject them into space. This, of course, will only delay the inevitable. Eventually, the monkeys themselves must be stopped. Once we have secured the proper assets, we will begin reconnaissance to discover the source of the typewriter monkeys.

I suspect they are being herded here through an ancient inter-dimensional gateway leading to the nether region of spacetime to which all typewriter monkeys return upon achieving a singularity, hence setting up the cycle for repetition. WE MUST NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!

Who's with me?!

 

[Sven Tingblad]

That's it! I've heard enough of this madness! The monkeys must be stopped!

I propose setting up a rebel faction of terrorist scientists to oppose the rising force of typewriter monkeys. I suggest our immediate course of action should be an attempt to secure all typewriter-related assets thusfar manufactured and eject them into space. This, of course, will only delay the inevitable. Eventually, the monkeys themselves must be stopped. Once we have secured the proper assets, we will begin reconnaissance to discover the source of the typewriter monkeys.

I suspect they are being herded here through an ancient inter-dimensional gateway leading to the nether region of spacetime to which all typewriter monkeys return upon achieving a singularity, hence setting up the cycle for repetition. WE MUST NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!

Who's with me?!

It just came to me! They must have been sent back in time using the inter-dimensional gateway from the Planet of the Apes. Director Tim Burton somehow got wind of this perilous plot and re-made the movie Planet of the Apes to show apes coming back in time in order to warn us. Strangely, even though he implied a sequel, it was never followed up. The monkeys must have neutralized him and taken him prisoner, replacing him with a plastic surgery-enhanced ape who looks like Tim Burton. Who knows how many world leaders are actually simians in disguise? I fear that our only hope is to lure the Pod People here and hope that they and the monkeys destroy themselves in a cataclysmic battle worthy of a Godzilla movie.

 

[JD]

I just hope that they don't obtain Tippex - please oh please.

 

[jcsd]

I have a team oi monkeys (slightly less than infinite) that write my posts for me (giv us a banana).

 

[JD]

I have a large quantity of cows in straw hats that moo in Chinese and play the drums.

 

[Rasine]

if you look at this with a mathmatical stand point of probility, yes it is not only possible, but it will happen. one of the possibilities will reslut in shakespears works because with the situation comes an infinate number of possibilities. this means that all of the possibilities will be fulfilled including shakespears writings.

 

[jimmy p]

Wait... There's a university in Plymouth? must have been built by infinite monkeys with infinite time and infinite bricks and cement.

 

[devil-fire]

i thought the expression was referring to a large number of low quality intelectual labour producing a rare gem of work? i mean who cares if monkeys could hit out a line of shakespear?...actualy that would be kind of surpriseing for a while

 

[motai]

i mean who cares if monkeys could hit out a line of shakespear?...actualy that would be kind of surpriseing for a while

They did get close, considering that most of what they typed was the letter "s". If they kept at it they might have spelled the word "Shakespeare"

 

[kioria]

The REAL Issue?

I think, with the infinit monkey theory, its wrong to think that they {infinite no. of monkeys} can produce a line of Shakespeare's work at the expense of both, intelligence and randomness. What is the AIM of this study? [a] To test their intelligence? To test the true randomness?

[a] Monkies are intelligent to some extent, but not quiet. That is a known fact.

What a waste of time/money to test randomness in such a pathetic manner. Collecting vast arrays of cosmic arrays from the sky and generating a random number out of its pattern is a better idea.

The public/scientists should be disgusted and stupified by that study.
End of Discussion.

 

[Erazman]

even if there isn't true randomness, it doesn't matter..

Lets compare..i'll make up averages for letters typed in an hour..

Really really really Dumb Monkey:
300 S's / hour
2 F's / hour
3 N's / hour

Supermonkey:
200 A's / hour
200 B's / hour
200 C's / hour
200 D's / hour
etc...

now, knowing that this is "average" makes these statistics absolutely worthless, since infinity has no "averages". Infinity covers every possibility infinite times.

Infinite monkeys, whether they be supermonkeys or dumb monkeys:

Elsinore. A platform before the Castle.
Francisco is at his post. Bernardo approaches.

Bernardo: Who's there.?
Francisco: Nay, answer me. Stand and unfold yourself.
Bernardo: Long live the King!
Francisco: Bernardo?
Bernardo: He.
Francisco: You come most carefully upon your hour.
Bernardo: 'Tis now struck twelve. Get thee to bed, Francisco.
Francisco: For this relief much thanks. 'Tis bitter cold, and I am sick at heart.
Bernardo: Have you had quiet guard?
Francisco: Not a mouse stirring.
Bernardo: Well, good-night.
If you do meet Horatio and Marcellus,
The rivals of my watch, bid them make haste.
Enter Horatio and Marcellus.
Francisco: I think I hear them. Stand, ho! Who is there?
Horatio: Friends to this ground.
Marcellus: And liegemen to the Dane.
Francisco: Give you good night.
Marcellus: Oh, farewell, honest soldier.
Who hath reliev'd you?
Francisco: Bernardo hath my place.
Give you good night. Exit.
Marcellus: Holla! Bernardo!
Bernardo: Say,
What! is Horatio there?
Horatio: A piece of him.
Bernardo: Welcome, Horatio. Welcome, good Marcellus.
Marcellus: What, has this thing appear'd again to-night?
Bernardo: I have seen nothing.
Marcellus: Horatio says 'tis but our fantasy,
And will not let belief take hold of him
Touching this dreaded sight, twice seen of us.
Therefore I have entreated him along,
With us to watch the minutes of this night,
That, if again this apparition come,
He may approve our eyes and speak to it.
Horatio: Tush, tush, 'twill not appear.
Bernardo: Sit down awhile,
And let us once again assail your ears,
That are so fortified against our story,
What we two nights have seen.
Horatio: Well, sit we down,
And let us hear Bernardo speak of this.
Bernardo: Last night of all,
When yond same star that's westward from the pole
Had made his course t' illume that part of heaven
Where now it burns, Marcellus and myself,
The bell then beating one,-
Enter Ghost.
Marcellus: Peace! break thee off. Look where it comes again!
Bernardo: In the same figure, like the King that's dead.
Marcellus: Thou art a scholar; speak to it, Horatio.
Bernardo: Looks it not like the King? Mark it, Horatio.
Horatio: Most like. It harrows me with fear and wonder.
Bernardo: It would be spoke to.
Marcellus: Question it, Horatio.
Horatio: What art thou that usurp'st this time of night
Together with that fair and warlike form
In which the majesty of buried Denmark
Did sometimes march? By heaven I charge thee speak!
Marcellus: It is offended.
Bernardo: See, it stalks away!
Horatio: Stay! Speak, speak! I charge thee speak!
Exit Ghost.


will happen infinately, just like:

"SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS"

or:

Doyou rememner a long time ago There was a man called Cotton eyed Joe There was a man called Cotton eyed Joe I could have been married a long time ago If it hadn't a-been for Cotton eyed joe If it hadn't a-been for Cotton eyed joe Old bull fiddle and a shoes-string bow Wouldn't play nothing, but Cotton eyed Joe Wouldn't play nothing, but Cotton eyed Joe Play it fast or play it slow Didn't play nothing but Cotton eyed Joe Didn't play nothing but Cotton eyed Joe Don't you remember and long time ago Daddy worked and a man called Cotton eyed Joe Daddy worked and a man called Cotton eyed Joe Where do you come from ? Where do you go ? Where do you come from Cotton eyed Joe Where do you come from Cotton eyed Joe Come for to see you , come for to sing Come for to show you my diamond ring Come for to show you my diamond ring

 

[nrqed]

if you look at this with a mathmatical stand point of probility, yes it is not only possible, but it will happen. one of the possibilities will reslut in shakespears works because with the situation comes an infinate number of possibilities. this means that all of the possibilities will be fulfilled including shakespears writings.

And this means that all of the posts (past AND future) on www.physicsforums.com would also ultimately get typed by the monk...


Wait! Am I talking to a bunch of monkeys here?

 

[Albert's your uncle]

I think that Sven Tingblad's answer above is the most accurate so far. However, if there are an infinite number of monkeys then you would not need an infinite amount of time. In fact you would only need the amount of time it takes for one monkey to type the complete works of Shakespeare.

Now for the reasoning. The complete works of the Bard are a definite string of text (ie. containing only letters a-z, A-Z and usual punctuation marks). We only need to have one monkey to do this in a given time. Now, in that given time all sorts of strings of text are going to be created, anything from "a" to "ZZZZZZZ...ZZZZ". We have an infinite number of monkeys (and presumably a room to put them in) each with a typewriter/word processor. Each monkey will create 'random' text and many will create the same text as other monkeys. Now, because there are an infinite number there MUST be at least one which creates the works of the Bard.

To take this further, by the nature of the 'concept' of infinity, there will in fact be an infinite number of monkeys which produce the complete works of Shakespeare. And, there will also be an infinite number who create the complete works of Dickens, Poe and even Roger Hargreaves! (but maybe without the pictures).

The problems with infinite monkeys creating balck holes are just excuses by people who are not getting into the spirit of a 'thought experiment'. If the experiment says "You have an infinite number of monkeys, each with a word processor" then that is what you have. There was no mention of "will a black hole be created?", just questions about the text which will be created.

______________________________________________________________________
We've all heard that a million monkeys, banging on a million typewriters, would eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know that this is not true. (Robert Silensky)

 

[Moonbear]

I love how artists interpret science. Somehow six monkeys with one keyboard for one month that are allowed to do plenty of other monkey things besides typing represents a monkey typing continuously at a keyboard for an infinite amount of time, or an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards for a finite amount of time, whichever way you want to look at it. Surely it would have been a better use of the money to donate the computer to a school. Actually, the most startling part of this study is that the computer and keyboard survived more than a few hours in the hands of the monkeys. I'm also fascinated by their fascination with the "s" key. Pattern repetition is actually far more relevant than random chance to the question anyway. Would have been better if they had a propensity toward ATGC, but that's probably asking too much of a monkey.

 

[masudr]

Some people have the right idea.

Firstly, this IS a thought experiment. Forget self-gravitating monkey clusters.

Secondly, we don't need monkeys. For example, we could have a hydrogen atom. If we excite the atom by delivering enough energy, the electron will excite and then dexcite, by emitting a photon in a random direction. If we arbitrarily have macroscopic hemispheres (imagined ones) of radius 1m, we can add 1 or 0 to a sequence of binary digits depending on which hemisphere the photon passes through. If we continue this process for t seconds, then as t tends to infinity we will have an infinite random sequence. Note that the sequence does not become random until t has tended to infinity, because until then there is a potential for a repetition or pattern to arise.

We can have any arbitrary method to derive letters and punctuation from that sequence (in fact we can derive any data form we want) with arbitrary rules. Now since our rules are arbitrary, they have no effect on the sequence. For example, we could use the ASCII text convention.

And if t does tend to infinity, we will get anything and everything that is finite and obeys classical logic, whether it exists or not, including Shakespeare's complete works, the instructions on how to make TNT, Windows XP source code, what my girlfriend is thinking etc. For example, if the universe was classical and finite we would get a part of the sequence that describes the position and momentum of every particle in the universe.

To get around this classical limitation, we could have microscopic spheres instead of macroscopic ones, and have an additional condition that the photon goes through both hemispheres and record that as q on the sequence for example. The rules are more complicated, but we could also derive any data form we want from that sequence, including one that describes the quantum states of all particles in the universe.

That's my contribution for today.

 

[tribdog]

irrelevant...the pachyderm house. OMG! I may have actually leaked urine upon reading that.

 

[Les Sleeth]

I'm also fascinated by their fascination with the "s" key. Pattern repetition is actually far more relevant than random chance to the question anyway. Would have been better if they had a propensity toward ATGC, but that's probably asking too much of a monkey.

I wonder if the "s" key was what they naturally pushed from the way they handled the keyboard (such as holding it, or resting a hand on it).

I think Erazman pegged it though. When infinite possibilities are constrained by some set of conditions, it seems like repetition of similar patterns will result, not ongoing new patterns one after another, which is what would be needed to produce even lousy literature.

 

[jimmy p]

I think this Simpsons quote by Mr Burns sums this entire conversation up

And in this room is a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters. Let's see how they are getting on. "It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times??" you stupid monkey!

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!