- #36
Borek
Mentor
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Fingers crossed. Sometimes it takes getting to the bottom to start swimming up.
turbo-1 said:Good news, Ivan. My best hopes for no relapse. Sometimes addicts fall off the wagon even after a serious scare. Hope she'll get counseling and stay clean.
Like I said before, she most likely had underlying kidney disease or other problems she was not aware of. The drinking would worsen pre-existing conditions. Was she taking acetaminophen along with the alcohol? I know Tsu warned of how dangerous that was.Ivan Seeking said:The sad and incredible part to me is that she didn't have a drinking problem until she suffered a family crisis, two years ago. It only took two years for this to happen. I've seen heroin addicts that fare better than this!
Ivan Seeking said:I used to think meth was the most destructive drug on the planet, but after seeing this I have to give the trophy to booze.
I know people that have died from alcohol poisoning. Yes, you can die from a single overdose of alcohol. Long term damage though is just that, it's long term. Some people do have medical issues that by themselves won't be fatal, but will be fatal with large continued doses of alcohol.Ivan Seeking said:You will have to ask Tsu about that one. She's the one getting the information first hand, and according to her this was caused solely by alcohol. When I questioned whether this is even possible, she said this is not surprising at all.
I know you can die from alcohol poisoning by drinking just once.
Tsu is up helping to take care of the woman's dogs today.
Evo said:I know people that have died from alcohol poisoning. Yes, you can die from a single overdose of alcohol. Long term damage though is just that, it's long term. Some people do have medical issues that by themselves won't be fatal, but will be fatal with large continued doses of alcohol.
Can a completely healthy person with no medical conditions develop these conditions you cite in 2 years, never heard of it. But one single huge ingestion of alcohol can kill, but it won't be kidney or liver disease.
The onus of proof is on the one making the claim. You know that. And I'll gladly change everything if you can prove what you claim is real.Ivan Seeking said:Do you a source saying this is not possible, or is this just your opinion?
Esp given that you already changed the title. You just admitted that alcohol kills. What's the problem with being honest?
Honest? You're arguing against a by definition/self evident reality! Its a pretty big claim to say that alcohol can destroy your kidneys in 2 years with no underlying exacerbating factor.Ivan Seeking said:Do you a source saying this is not possible, or is this just your opinion?
Esp given that you already changed the title. You just admitted that alcohol kills. What's the problem with being honest?
russ_watters said:The only thing the wiki says on the subject is that alcohol lowers the risk of developing kidney stones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol#Kidney_stones
russ_watters said:I absolutely understand that alcohol can cause a host of different health problems. But it should only be blamed for things it actually does and it doesn't look to me like it has more than a tangential relevance here. For example, here's what AARP has to say about people drinking with kidney disease: http://www.aakp.org/aakp-library/alcohol-consumption/
Basically, the link lists a handful of indirect effects drinking can have on your kidneys, such as increasing blood pressure and increasing urine output. It doesn't mention alcohol directly affecting the kidneys (as opposed to, say, the liver).
It can be comforting to blame an easy target, but that doesn't make it correct and being correct matters in this forum.
The minimum dose of alcohol that must be consumed for serious liver injury to become apparent in men is 5-6 standard drinks daily for 20 years. For women, the minimum dose is one-fourth to one-half that amount.
Evo said:Back to reality, this was not alcohol alone. Anyone have research to back that this damage this quick can be just alcohol consumption? Unless she was consuming lethal amounts of alcohol daily, which would make anything lethal.
Acetaminophen is probably one of the scariest and deadliest over the counter drugs there is. Much deadlier than alcohol, meth, or heroine. In the US it's known as Tylenol.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec21/ch326/ch326c.html
Alcohol alone could not have caused the damage that woman had in that time frame unless she had pre-exisiting problems or it's possible she was mixing alcohol with acetaminophen or other drugs. Let's stay realistic, although long term alcohol abuse can cause health problems, it cannot cause these problems in this short of a time frame by itself.
I would guess that an average drink in the US would have a jigger of alcohol, 40 proof. 1 jigger = 1.5 fluid ounce (~44 ml)fluidistic said:Responding to Evo: standard drink=200 ml of beer? So that means around 1 liter of what... 6% of alcohol? Just want to make things clear :)