Confusion with curved space analogies

In summary: So, in summary, the conversation discusses the confusion surrounding analogies used to explain gravity as a space-time curvature. The analogies often involve objects "falling" along a curve towards a larger mass, but it is unclear why the objects would move along the curvature. The conversation also brings up the idea of placing a stationary particle in the curved area of space-time and questioning what makes it accelerate on the curvature. The analogy of two airplanes flying on different longitude lines and eventually colliding at the North Pole is mentioned as an example of how curved space-time can affect the movement of objects. However, including the time dimension is necessary to fully explain gravitational attraction.
  • #1
DragonPetter
830
1
I've always been confused by the typical analogies I see when gravity as a space-time curvature is explained.

In 2-D it is usually a plane with field lines, and the surface of the plane is curved around an object. And so we are told a mass placed in this curvature will "fall" down the curve and that's how objects are moved in gravity. Its also given in the analogy of a funnel with a coin rolled down the funnel.

Then the more exact 3-D and 4-D models are given, but its still the idea that an object will "fall" along the curve towards the mass causing the curve.

My confusion is why do the objects move along the curvature? Say you took a stationary mass and placed it on the curved surface. Why would that mass want to move down the curve if its at rest? In the analogies, its actually gravity that is implied to move the object along the curve so they're using gravity to explain gravity which doesn't make sense.

So to sum it up, can someone answer or explain this question:
Take a stationary particle, of very low mass. Place it in the "curved" area of space-time around a large mass. What is making the particle accelerate on that curvature? Why isn't it happy staying in the spot its placed even though the spot might be curved in towards the larger mass?
 
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  • #2
Place it in the "curved" area of space-time around a large mass. What is making the particle accelerate on that curvature? Why isn't it happy staying in the spot its placed even though the spot might be curved in towards the larger mass?
These analogies are misleading sometimes. I'm actually not sure in every case what they are supposed to show but here's what I think they should show.

You see a deforme plane. Now draw a straight line on it (or at least, try to do so). The standard procedure is to lay an arrow on the plane and move it always in the direction it is pointing, without deliberately rotating it. You end up with a curved line, which is calles a geodesic. That's what you can learn, in curved space geodesics ("supposed straight lines") are curved. Nothing to do with something falling in the funnel, it'd work exactly the same if the funnel were bent upwards.
Don't take it too literal as explaining gravity. There is one aspect missing that these pictures can't convey: It's not space that is bent, it's spacetime. The combination of space and time.
Every point in space, like a planet or so, is represented by a line in spacetime (its "worldline"). For example the world line of a particle at rest goes from past to furture, but not in a spatial direction. Like a straight line upwards in a spacetime diagram.
in curved spacetime, its worldline is curved into the space direction, which means that the particle is beginning to change its position due to gravity.
 
  • #3
Consider two airplanes flying over the surface of the Earth. They start out at the equator, and fly northward with the same speed, along different longitude lines. Each plane flies a straight path, as far as it "knows," and continues to steer in the same direction. Nevertheless, as they go further north, they approach other, and collide at the North Pole.
 
  • #4
DragonPetter said:
So to sum it up, can someone answer or explain this question:
Take a stationary particle, of very low mass. Place it in the "curved" area of space-time around a large mass. What is making the particle accelerate on that curvature? Why isn't it happy staying in the spot its placed even though the spot might be curved in towards the larger mass?
The analogy you describe is one of curved space, and in fact it doesn't explain gravitational attraction of objects at rest in space. You need to include the time dimension to explain that:
http://www.relativitet.se/spacetime1.html
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb..._and_general_relativity/curved_spacetime.html
 

1. What is curved space?

Curved space is a concept in physics that describes the idea that the universe is not flat, but rather has a curvature to it. This curvature is caused by the presence of mass and energy, which warps the fabric of space-time.

2. How does curved space relate to gravity?

Curved space is closely related to the concept of gravity. According to Einstein's theory of general relativity, objects with mass cause a curvature in space-time, and this curvature is what we experience as gravity. The more massive an object is, the greater the curvature it creates, and therefore the stronger its gravitational pull.

3. Can we visualize or experience curved space?

Since we are confined to a three-dimensional space, it is difficult for us to visualize or experience curved space directly. However, we can use analogies, such as a rubber sheet being stretched by a heavy object, to help us understand the concept of curved space.

4. Is curved space the same as the curvature of space-time?

Yes, curved space and the curvature of space-time are essentially the same concept. In Einstein's theory of general relativity, space and time are considered to be part of a single entity called space-time, and any curvature in space also affects the curvature of time.

5. How does curved space affect the movement of objects?

Curved space affects the movement of objects by altering the paths they take through space-time. In the presence of a massive object, the space-time around it is curved, causing objects to follow curved paths around it. This is why planets orbit around the sun and why satellites follow curved trajectories in space.

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