Delicate devices transportation

[humanino]

For the upcoming experiment I am working on, we bought a 100,000$ power supply. This is just a 2 m high box, full of HV electronics in order to deliver a controlled 500A current under a stable 5V or less. It feeds magnetic superconducting coils. Anyway, this box was written "FRAGILE" on it, "THIS SIDE UP", and had all the warnings required. Besides, the transporter signed for the shipping under well-defined stringent conditions, such as "using an air cushion" and other precautions that have not been respected. They dropped the box from at least 3m high and never told us anything. Would we have turned it on, any person within a few meters around the box could be dead now (possible electrical arcs). Maybe less important, but kind of important to me, it has been two years now I began working on the preparation : today, some people say this experiment simply cannot take place. Others prefer to wait for expertise.

 

[Evo]

This is terrible!

If the power supply has to be replaced, how many months will it take?

How difficult will it be to get the experiment re-scheduled?

 

[humanino]

If the experiment is re-scheduled, it will take place in two years : there are many other experiments scheduled after ours, among which many are basically ready to begin. Since beam time is so expensive, we cannot afford to wait, even a few weeks is not reasonable.

 

[Evo]

If the experiment is re-scheduled, it will take place in two years

OMG! So it will delay your PHD 2 more years?

there are many other experiments scheduled after ours, among which many are basically ready to begin. Since beam time is so expensive, we cannot afford to wait, even a few weeks is not reasonable.

Hopefully there will be another suitable power supply you can borrow. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Evo<----puts her arm around humanino We will send MIH after the trucker that did this. (she's been practicing)

Next time you need anything shipped, let me know, we can put it on the supersonic RV. There are plenty of cushions in the RV lounge.

 

[dextercioby]

I hope they gave you back the hundred grand... :tongue2:

Daniel.

P.S.Work in theory.Pencils are not fragile material... :tongue2:

 

[dextercioby]

Excuse my irony.I didn't realize it was that bad...

Daniel.

 

[Moonbear]

If the experiment is re-scheduled, it will take place in two years : there are many other experiments scheduled after ours, among which many are basically ready to begin. Since beam time is so expensive, we cannot afford to wait, even a few weeks is not reasonable.

That's awful! Here's your introduction to the American legal system...SUE the trucking company, not only for the cost of the equipment, but for the cost of lost time on the project (2 years of even a lowly grad student stipend adds up to a lot of money, include your tuition fees, your airfare to the US, lodging expenses, etc.) I don't know how easily you can do that, but at least thinking about it should help make you feel better...maybe.

They should definitely be responsible for the cost of the equipment damaged if they were negligent in their handling, especially when proper precautions were specified. Dropping something that says "FRAGILE" is definitely negligent.

Of course none of that helps you with the delay it will cause to your project. Is this experiment essential to your PhD, or can you substitute something else considering this was really something entirely outside of your control?

Have a good cry, stomp around, punch a wall, get drunk...you deserve to be mad today.

 

[humanino]

OMG! So it will delay your PHD 2 more years?

I would actually either begin another one, or just switch to another experiment.

Evo<----puts her arm around humanino We will send MIH after the trucker that did this. (she's been practicing)

Next time you need anything shipped, let me know, we can put it on the supersonic RV. There are plenty of cushions in the RV lounge.

:rofl: Thank you Evo. You are so nice.

 

[humanino]

Excuse my irony.I didn't realize it was that bad...

Don't worry, I am actually considering to switch to theory. The reason I chose experimental physics was that to me, this separation theory/experiment is artificial and this project is closer to my conception : first predict new phenomena (this was done by theoreticians) and then confront to Nature (this is the difficult part).

 

[Moonbear]

Don't worry, I am actually considering to switch to theory. The reason I chose experimental physics was that to me, this separation theory/experiment is artificial and this project is closer to my conception : first predict new phenomena (this was done by theoreticians) and then confront to Nature (this is the difficult part).

It's good you have a back-up plan on this. At least now when someone asks why you went into theoretical instead of experimental physics, you'll have a really good story to tell.

 

[humanino]

SUE the trucking company

The insurance compagny had been notified, and the process has already begun

Is this experiment essential to your PhD, or can you substitute something else considering this was really something entirely outside of your control?

This experiment was actually the core of my PhD : prepare it (almost done), do it, and analyze it.

Have a good cry, stomp around, punch a wall, get drunk...you deserve to be mad today.

I will, but i could have even without this good pretext :tongue2: :rofl:

 

[Evo]

That's awful! Here's your introduction to the American legal system...SUE the trucking company, not only for the cost of the equipment, but for the cost of lost time on the project (2 years of even a lowly grad student stipend adds up to a lot of money, include your tuition fees, your airfare to the US, lodging expenses, etc.) I don't know how easily you can do that, but at least thinking about it should help make you feel better...maybe.

Yeah, sue them! I think all of us at PF that are sharing your pain are also due financial compensation from that company for our mental anguish. :tongue2:

 

[humanino]

Yeah, sue them! I think all of us at PF that are sharing your pain are also due financial compensation from that company for our mental anguish. :tongue2:

This is indeed an invaluable loss for the entire mankind, intellectual progress is so important :uhh:

 

[Moonbear]

This experiment was actually the core of my PhD : prepare it (almost done), do it, and analyze it.

I feel so disappointed for you. I can't even imagine how you must feel right now. I think I'd be feeling sick to my stomach over it.

But, I can tell you this much...if you can get yourself through this experience and stay in science, you'll be able to survive anything else thrown your way.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, sue them! I think all of us at PF that are sharing your pain are also due financial compensation from that company for our mental anguish. :tongue2:

Was this funded by US or French tax dollars? Darn right I want compensation if that trucking company just led to the waste of my tax money!

We're here for you. If you need to rant, rave, fume, swear in little asterisks (I guess we can't let you around the censoring rule), go for it! If I could give you a hug and buy your drinks tonight, I would.

 

[tribdog]

You should have written the label in English. Who the heck understands French? "Fragile" what does that mean?

 

[eax]

You should have written the label in English. Who the heck understands French? "Fragile" what does that mean?

it up
[/url]

 

[dextercioby]

That's disgusting... :yuck: Someone making fun of Tribby's jokes... :tongue2: :tongue2:

Daniel.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm sorry to hear about this Humanino. In addition to a another member here, a friend of mine had similar bad luck. It may not help much but you're not alone.

Also, usually any incidental or consequential damages are waived under the shipping contract. The only liability is the value of the goods. You can sue anybody for any reason, but your chances of winning may not be very good.

 

[tribdog]

it up
[/url]

shouldn't you be in bed?

 

[Evo]

You can sue anybody for any reason, but your chances of winning may not be very good.

That's why I suggested we just send MIH. Heck, perhaps the entire sisterhood should go out on this one. I could use a little rifle practice.

 

[Moonbear]

Also, usually any incidental or consequential damages are waived under the shipping contract. The only liability is the value of the goods. You can sue anybody for any reason, but your chances of winning may not be very good.

It's always worth looking into. There's a difference between something getting damaged because the truck hit one too many potholes that couldn't have been anticipated, or got in an accident along the way, and someone outright dropping something labeled fragile, and it sounds like other precautions (this end up) weren't heeded either from Humanino's original post. In that case, it's negligence, so I don't think the contract will hold up in that case. Of course, you may have to directly sue the individual employees for their part in it, which wouldn't get much since I doubt anyone working for a trucking company is making enough money to pay back any judgement against them, but you have to start with the company.

 

[Moonbear]

That's why I suggested we just send MIH. Heck, perhaps the entire sisterhood should go out on this one. I could use a little rifle practice.

Woo hoo! Lock and load sista!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are the sisters for hire? I have a couple of customers that I'd like you to visit.

 

[Moonbear]

Are the sisters for hire? I have a couple of customers that I'd like you to visit.

First we need to take care of one of Evo's customers who seems to take her health and safety too lightly, then we can get to your customers.

 

[humanino]

Was this funded by US or French tax dollars?

The power supply was paid by your DOE, so yes you can be mad !

I'm sorry to hear about this Humanino. In addition to a another member here, a friend of mine had similar bad luck. It may not help much but you're not alone.

Yes I am aware of this. Actually, there was an electrical accident at SLAC in October. One guy violated 6 different safety rules, and was violently burnt. Since then, SLAC is simply shut down for physics. It represents many people having to find a new PhD subject (foreign student often have less time than you do in the US).

 

[marlon]

Humanino, are you going into theoretical physics now ? If so, join the club man...Hopefully, i will be starting my phd in october on Density Functional theory and general QM-applications for nanotechnology and micro-electronics. It is theoretical but certainly no hardcore QFT like my thesis.

What would you do in theoretical physics, if you'd change ??

marlon

 

[franznietzsche]

That's disgusting... :yuck: Someone making fun of Tribby's jokes... :tongue2: :tongue2:

Daniel.

He had it coming on that one.

 

[humanino]

What would you do in theoretical physics, if you'd change ??

My dear Godfather, I would in any case stick in QCD. Strong interaction physics and GPDs. Probably compute GPDs on the lattice using chiral and/or instanton framework. It is vague enough to be true

[thread=41885]GPDs[/thread]
arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev.nucl.54.070103.181302[/URL]

 

[Gokul43201]

Humanino, I'm terribly sorry about the disaster. How much time had you invested into the project till now ? Is this a custom built power supply ? I haven't heard of an off-the-shelf (Oxford Instruments or other such) supply that puts out 500A. The common ones (like the ~1 KW supplies) go up to only 120A (cost ~$13,000).

Whatever you are putting in your magnet must be pretty big - meaning bigger than a cubic centimeter. I can't think of any other obvious reason for a 500A supply. And I can only imagine the time and effort that must have gone into the design of the magnet.

Hope you can recover from this without too much of a hiccup.

 

[humanino]

Thanks Gokul !
the problem with this power supply, is that it should work at low voltage : from 0 to 5 V only. (Be careful not to think in terms of U=RI, but U=-LdI/dt because in this case R is about 0)

And by the way : a cubic centimeter is not big :rofl:

We have not found any solution yet...

 

[Gokul43201]

Thanks Gokul !
the problem with this power supply, is that it should work at low voltage : from 0 to 5 V only. (Be careful not to think in terms of U=RI, but U=-LdI/dt because in this case R is about 0)

Don't worry, I'm aware of this. It's common to keep and eye on the voltage to confirm beginning and end of ramping. Also, if your magnet quenches from low fields, the only indicator may be the voltage across the magnet leads.

And by the way : a cubic centimeter is not big :rofl:

More than a few cc can be quite "big" depending on the fields. How high a field do you go up to ?

We have not found any solution yet...

Surely the transporter's insurance will have to cover the cost of the power supply. Is the problem due to the time it takes to build a new supply ? And just out of curiosity, who did you buy the power supply from ?

 

[Moonbear]

Is the problem due to the time it takes to build a new supply ? And just out of curiosity, who did you buy the power supply from ?

I was under the impression he just spent two years designing and building it himself, and it was being transported from the location where it was built to the location where it was going to be used.

 

[cronxeh]

You kno what can deliver 100-1000 amps easily.. what would be the cheapest and most durable power supply you can get your hands on.. A bolt of lightning. Try it. Launch a rocket with attached cable into a cloud, and change the current if you need to - step it down, filter, alternate, etc

 

[Gokul43201]

I was under the impression he just spent two years designing and building it himself, and it was being transported from the location where it was built to the location where it was going to be used.

It would be very inefficient use of resources to have a grad student build a magnet power supply. There are companies (like Oxford Instruments) that do nothing but this, and they will take custom jobs. Humanino (I suspect) has been designing the overall experiment (of which the magnet is a small, yet essential part).