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OnceMore
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ThomasT said:Which is one reason to prevent any ME state except Israel from developing nuclear weapons.
Yea, I'm knew here, so I don't actually know if you're taking the piss, or you're serious.
ThomasT said:Which is one reason to prevent any ME state except Israel from developing nuclear weapons.
zapperzero said:I hope you're trolling. You best be trolling.
Is there some reason to believe that the US doesn't have a vested interest in trying to keep Iran, or any other ME state except Israel, from developing a nuclear arsenal -- and that US policy entails doing whatever might be deemed necessary to keep Iran from developing a nuclear arsenal?OnceMore said:Yea, I'm knew here, so I don't actually know if you're taking the piss, or you're serious.
"Right" and "rights" are meaningless in this context. The government of Iran will do what it deems to be in its best interest to do. And so will the US.OnceMore said:What if Iran decided they had a vested interest in stopping a potential stike from Isreal, backed by the US? Would you agree also that they have a right to strike?
If only it were that simple. But it isn't. Countries, like individuals, have their self interests which might or might not coincide with other countries. Often they don't. So there's the continual struggle for dominance.OnceMore said:To quote Noam Chomsky “Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.”
ThomasT said:Imho, the US will not allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.
Please post the mainstream article that backs this up. I suggest before you post again that you read the rules for posting in this forum which is stickied at the top of P&WA. Posting opinion as a fact is a violation of the rules.OnceMore said:You are probably right. And if it does happen, lots of people will die.
Evo said:Please post the mainstream article that backs this up. I suggest before you post again that you read the rules for posting in this forum which is stickied at the top of P&WA. Posting opinion as a fact is a violation of the rules.
Iran is a threat. With nuclear weapons it's an immediately grave and unacceptable threat. Plus they have vast oil reserves. Iran is going to get hit ... in the foreseeable future. Bet on it.
Yeah, it seems that the US is pretty much despised by lots of people in the ME -- and with good reason, imo. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the US has been the predominant bully in the international schoolyard.OnceMore said:You are probably right. And if it does happen, lots of people will die. And there will be even more people who will grow up with very anti-American views.
ThomasT said:I certainly hope that the Iran thing doesn't come to something like an all-out war, with occupation and such.
You're right, I should have tacked an "imo" onto any statements that I didn't.OnceMore said:I may be wrong, but this seems to be an opinion posted as fact.
By the way, welcome to PF. You'll find a lot of people here willing to discuss politics, and just about anything else I think.OnceMore said:I have enjoyed this back-and-forth. Most people I know hate to discuss politics.
ThomasT said:By the way, welcome to PF
It's a great place to discuss any and all things scientific, especially physics.
QuantumPion said:No. Only Sovereign nations with truly democratically elected governments and leaders should have the "right" to nuclear technology. That being said, I do not really have a problem with Iran contracting the russkies to build and operate a LWR for electricity.
Profile: Norman Schwarzkopf Sr.
Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. was a participant or observer in the following events:
August 19, 1953: Iranian Government Overthrown by Rebels and CIA
CIA coup planner Kermit Roosevelt. [Source: Find a Grave (,com)]
The government of Iran is overthrown by Iranian rebels and the CIA in a coup codenamed Operation Ajax. The coup was planned by CIA operative Kermit Roosevelt after receiving the blessings of the US and British governments. Muhammad Mosaddeq is deposed and the CIA promptly reinstates Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on the throne. The Shah’s secret police, SAVAK, trained by the CIA and Israel’s Mossad, are widely perceived as being as brutal and terrifying as the Nazi Gestapo in World War II. British oil interests in Iran, partially nationalized under previous governments, are returned to British control. American oil interests are retained by 8 private oil companies, who are awarded 40% of the Iranian oil industry. US General Norman Schwarzkopf, Sr. (father of the general with the same name in the 1991 Gulf War) helps the Shah develop the fearsome SAVAK secret police. [ZNET, 12/12/2001; GLOBAL POLICY FORUM, 2/28/2002] Author Stephen Kinzer will say in 2003, "The result of that coup was that the Shah was placed back on his throne. He ruled for 25 years in an increasingly brutal and repressive fashion. His tyranny resulted in an explosion of revolution in 1979 the event that we call the Islamic revolution. That brought to power a group of fanatically anti-Western clerics who turned Iran into a center for anti-Americanism and, in particular, anti-American terrorism. The Islamic regime in Iran also inspired religious fanatics in many other countries, including those who went on to form the Taliban in Afghanistan and give refuge to terrorists who went on to attack the United States. The anger against the United States that flooded out of Iran following the 1979 revolution has its roots in the American role in crushing Iranian democracy in 1953. Therefore, I think it’s not an exaggeration to say that you can draw a line from the American sponsorship of the 1953 coup in Iran, through the Shah’s repressive regime, to the Islamic revolution of 1979 and the spread of militant religious fundamentalism that produced waves of anti-Western terrorism."
shashankac655 said:Lets not forget the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat]1953[/PLAIN] Iranian coup d'état (the US and the UK overthrew a Democratically elected Iranian government ,just because it nationalized it's oil fields.)
And now these countries preach other countries about democracy?
Recently some other country paid the price for nationalizing oil companies .
see here
and here
(THESE ARE NOT CRACKPOT LINKS)
and i got 5 points for telling the truth.
Iran might want to have nukes to protect it's oil reserves ,there is nothing wrong with that.
QuantumPion said:What is your point? That because we interfered with their political affairs in the past that they have the right to have nuclear weapons now? Sorry, but I don't buy that. Europe had colonized many African nations in the past but I don't think that means, say, Ethiopia or Sudan has the right to have nuclear weapons.
zapperzero said:Framing this in terms of rights is faintly ridiculous. There is no such thing as a right to own nukes. Signatories of the NPT (of which Iran is one) volunteer to not develop them. That, the Wassenaar agreement and the SALT treaty is just about all the legal framework there is to nukes.
ayahsafety said:Every country has the right to own nuclear power facilities, not only USA and Israel.
QuantumPion said:What is your point? That because we interfered with their political affairs in the past that they have the right to have nuclear weapons now? Sorry, but I don't buy that. Europe had colonized many African nations in the past but I don't think that means, say, Ethiopia or Sudan has the right to have nuclear weapons.
Yes, in an important sense the NPT is a sham. And there's no real rule by international law. What exists is a situation in which certain well armed and predominantly powerful countries don't want to allow Iran to become a player in the military nuclear game. And, in the opinions of many pundits, if Iran persists in a perceived trend to develop nuclear military capability, then Iran is going to get hit really hard ... primarily by Israel, with extensive US backing.shashankac655 said:And who decides that? NPT is a fraud,The only reason why the US and other Western countries have signed it is because they do virtual nuclear tests to upgrade their nukes and in turn preach/bully other countries not conduct nuclear tests. Technically NOBODY has signed the NPT ... [/url]