A wind-powered, Magnetic rail car(?)

[deathbymanga]

I have an idea where a car can be lifted up using magnets and sent forward using wind, but I'm not a licensed Engineer. So I was hoping I could get some help from these fine colleagues of mine.

Say two magnets are positioned at a perpendicular angle away from each other and inside the angle would sit the car. The cement that lines our roads would have iron molded into the material so as to provide a magnetic field. Can Magnets emit a Diamagnetic field, so as to repel the iron, instead of attracting it?

The only problem I have is that unless I put another magnet behind the car, the car will have no logical way to move forward while suspended in mid air. and if the car cannot move, no wind is made, and ergo, so wind-power.

...

But what if I put a propeller on it to blow wind into a sail to send it forward. There could be a turbine underneath that collects passing wing wind, while it moves forward like a boat.

 

[berkeman]

I have an idea where a car can be lifted up using magnets and sent forward using wind, but I'm not a licensed Engineer. So I was hoping I could get some help from these fine colleagues of mine.

Say two magnets are positioned at a perpendicular angle away from each other and inside the angle would sit the car. The cement that lines our roads would have iron molded into the material so as to provide a magnetic field. Can Magnets emit a Diamagnetic field, so as to repel the iron, instead of attracting it?

The only problem I have is that unless I put another magnet behind the car, the car will have no logical way to move forward while suspended in mid air. and if the car cannot move, no wind is made, and ergo, so wind-power.

...

But what if I put a propeller on it to blow wind into a sail to send it forward. There could be a turbine underneath that collects passing wing wind, while it moves forward like a boat.

Welcome to the PF.

Here is a pretty good introductory article to magnetic levitation for transportation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev

There are several ways to make the car move. You could put a sail on it and use the ambient wind (is this what you are suggesting?), or you could carry batteries or fuel to run a propeller or turbine for propulsion, or you could use the electrical techniques discussed in the article to provide the propulsion.

 

[deathbymanga]

I was thinking of using a propeler to blow wind into a sail using electricity to power the fan

 

[berkeman]

I was thinking of using a propeler to blow wind into a sail using electricity to power the fan

If the fan is mounted on the ground, it will blow the vehicle a little ways until the vehicle moves away from the fan's wind. You would get no net motion if you mount the fan and sail both on the vehicle. You could get net motion if you mount the fan on the vehicle and point it away from the vehicle (no sail involved).

 

[deathbymanga]

wind would get blow from the fan and hit the fan, isn't that how it works?

 

[berkeman]

wind would get blow from the fan and hit the fan, isn't that how it works?

This is how a fan works to push a vehicle:

http://blogcentral.timesheraldonline.com/picture_this/08-13 Fan boat.jpg

http://blogcentral.timesheraldonline.com/picture_this/08-13%20Fan%20boat.jpg

 

[deathbymanga]

I meant fan blows and wind hits sail, but then is there a way to propel the car any other way?

 

[berkeman]

I meant fan blows and wind hits sail, but then is there a way to propel the car any other way?

As I said in post #4, if the fan and sail are both mounted on the vehicle, you will get no net force to move the vehicle. The fan has to be pointed away from the vehicle as shown in the picture to generate a net force.

I mentioned a couple other ways to move the vehicle in my post #2. Have you read the wikipedia article yet?

 

[deathbymanga]

yes, but the only difference is that the trains are on tracks. My proposal is to place magnets capable of emitting a Diamagnetic field under the car and line the roads with iron so as to preserve the amounts of magnets and create a more free-range transportation system.

can a propeller send a car through the air if the car has no friction?

 

[berkeman]

yes, but the only difference is that the trains are on tracks. My proposal is to place magnets capable of emitting a Diamagnetic field under the car and line the roads with iron so as to preserve the amounts of magnets and create a more free-range transportation system.

There is no such thing as a diamagnetic field, AFAIK. You need to read the wikipedia article about how maglev works.

can a propeller send a car through the air if the car has no friction?

Do planes fly?

 

[deathbymanga]

I read some, the thing was long.

And diamagnetic is real, but I got the definition wrong, Diamagnetic controls non-magnetic metals like gold and mercury.But a normal magnet can repel? And how fast does a fan have to spin to push a free-floating car?

 

[berkeman]

I read some, the thing was long.

And diamagnetic is real, but I got the definition wrong, Diamagnetic controls non-magnetic metals like gold and mercury.

Yes, there are diamagnetic materials, but not diamagnetic fields, AFAIK.

But a normal magnet can repel? And how fast does a fan have to spin to push a free-floating car?

It would spin about as fast as it does for fan boats like I posted the picture of. Fan boats use gasoline-powered engines to drive the fans.

 

[deathbymanga]

but an electric fan will work just as well right? how fast can a free-floating car move if it is propeled by winds moving at such speeds?

 

[berkeman]

but an electric fan will work just as well right? how fast can a free-floating car move if it is propeled by winds moving at such speeds?

You will have the propulsion from the fan, and wind resistance holding you back. The terminal velocity of the vehicle will depend on how powerful the fan motor is, and how much wind resistance there is. Again, think airplane...

 

[DaveC426913]

but an electric fan will work just as well right? how fast can a free-floating car move if it is propeled by winds moving at such speeds?

As fast as a hovercraft or fan boat.

But why bother with a fan? It's not very efficient. You've got a connection with the ground (via the magnetic field), why not use it?

 

[deathbymanga]

well, how fast can a car with a fan spinning at 600 RPMs move?

 

[deathbymanga]

And do what, mix a magnet to the back and front to make it go in those directions?

 

[DaveC426913]

well, how fast can a car with a fan spinning at 600 RPMs move?

Kind of depends on the size of the fan now don't it?

 

[DaveC426913]

And do what, mix a magnet to the back and front to make it go in those directions?

Just do a little reading on maglev. It covers levitation and propulsion in one swell foop.

 

[deathbymanga]

can't you explain it to me? it is very long and boring

 

[DaveC426913]

can't you explain it to me? it is very long and boring

Perhaps you should take up a hobby that is more interesting to you.

 

[deathbymanga]

and you need a coil in the ground to propel the car forward, that devoids the purpose of the car. it is designed to move with iron implanted in the cement

 

[deathbymanga]

thinking and listening is fun reading and writing is boring

 

[DaveC426913]

thinking and listening is fun reading and writing is boring

Alas, thus is the route from childhood 'play' to adult 'do'.

You will accomplish very little in your life if you choose not to get educated at the things that interest you.

 

[deathbymanga]

well, how does this adult here explain how propulsion is made possible without propulsion coils

 

[DaveC426913]

well, how does this adult here explain how propulsion is made possible without propulsion coils

It's your idea. How do you expect to develop it if reading about the subject is boring? We're not here to entertain.

Look, we're happy to help out, but we are actually forbidden to spoon feed members (yes, it's in the rules). You must show your attempts at solving your problems. You were asking about maglev, there's lot's of info that you need to get up to speed on (including action/reaction forces of things like fans) that you can do without us just feeding it to you.

 

[deathbymanga]

I am trying to make a car that can fly using magnets

 

[DaveC426913]

I am trying to make a car that can fly using magnets

Yes, got it.

To use levitation, your car will have to stay on some sort of ground where there are coils in the ground, otherwise it won't be able to levitate. It's not going to levitate above pavement or grass.

 

[MisterX]

You would get no net motion if you mount the fan and sail both on the vehicle.

Actually, you might, were you to attempt it. With a large enough sail, net motion in the direction of air reflection may result when the fan is pointed towards the sail in an approximately normal direction. In other words, the sail may act like a thrust reverser.

There was a Mythbusters bit regarding this.

 

[DaveC426913]

Actually, you might, were you to attempt it. With a large enough sail, net motion in the direction of air reflection may result when the fan is pointed towards the sail in an approximately normal direction. In other words, the sail may act like a thrust reverser.

There was a Mythbusters bit regarding this.

Yes. But it is completely impractical - a wild goose chase for the OP.

 

[deathbymanga]

What if you line Iron into the roads, giving the magnets something to repel against? That way we simply have to have magnets pushing up, and say we make multiple magnets slanted to face opposite directions, but all facing the ground to create a balanced force. That would create a levitation system wouldn't it?The only problem is that to move forward, you need to send a force directly in the opposite direction you are going, so you either need to blow wind or cause a combustion.

 

[DaveC426913]

What if you line Iron into the roads, giving the magnets something to repel against?

Magnets do not repel against iron.

 

[berkeman]

deathbymanga, please do the boring reading. That will get you answers faster than making wild guesses in a web forum. This thread is done.