- #1
Curious_Dude
- 19
- 0
Hello everyone.
Let me introduce myself. I am Curious_Dude. Naturally, by nature, I am a curious person, hence the name. I rarely go on the forums, unless something really bothers me and I just MUST find out, and recently, this question hit me right in the head. This is not a homework question by any means, but more of a "just out of curiosity" question(s), brought to you by: my brain.
Anyway, everyone knows that the universe is expanding. You ask a person on the street about the universe, if there is one thing they know or heard about it, they'll say:
To a person who is not stupid and does not believe in everything someone tells him/her, the natural question is:
Every single scientist or person who knows anything about astronomy will answer them, saying something like:
However, here is my problem. The assumption of the universe expanding due to everything moving away from us can only be true if AND ONLY IF: We are at the Center of the expansion OR the expansion is not uniform.
Here is my reasoning:
let's say you have three cars driving in a line, on a highway at the same speed, and at a distance of say: each 10 meters apart. Then suddenly, two of the cars start to move further away from the middle car. Okay, now here is where it gets interesting. If the speed of all cars did not change, you can only assume that the the distance between each car expanded. The question is, where can the expansion occur in order to cause this change in distance?
You cannot assume the back of the middle car, because then the front car and middle car would change distance at the same rate, and therefore you would only see a distance change between the middle car and the back (last) car. There would be no difference in terms of distance between the front and middle car. Same thing if you assumed the expansion happened between the front car and middle car, except the result would be reversed. To have both cars change their distance between the middle car at the same rate (definition of uniform expansion), you would need the expansion to happen at the CENTER of the middle car! Right?
Here's the problem. According to those fantastic telescopes that are never wrong, We ARE NOT at the CENTER of the universe! So how can we claim that the universe is expanding, if everything is moving away from us, and yet we are not at the center of the expansion?
We would have to see something that is not moving away from us, something moving at the same rate as us, and is moving away at the same rate from the other objects of the universe (just as we are)! And yet, we do not see such a thing. It seems we are the only thing that is somehow changing distances between all these other objects of the universe. So... WTH is really going on then?
Sure you can say:
But that would suggest the expansion of the ENTIRE Universe is happening at the center of own galaxy (which is rediculous to claim; even most scientists doubt our galaxy is at the center of the universe; and the universe has billions of them, what are the chances?). But if that were true, again, we would see something that is and something that is not changing distance between us and the other things within our own galaxy. Yet again, we do not see this, and see "everything" moving away from us. Besides, the galaxies seem to be moving at much faster rate away from our galaxy, then anything else moving away from us. However, if that is true, than the expansion of the universe is not truly uniform. Every way I tried to look at this, everything to me suggests that the universe is expanding non-uniformly.
Ever since I was a child, people told me that the universe is expanding uniformly. I may have heard wrong, I may have read wrong, and this could be a huge misconception in my mind. But if the universe is expanding non-uniformly, how do we know that this is not part of some kind of cycle? How do we not know that maybe the galaxies are orbiting a super-ginormous (holy _ _ _ -) super black hole? or orbiting a bunch really gigantic super black holes that are placed in a very strange geometric position? How do we know that things moving away from us at NOT the same rate, are due to an expansion and not something else? I know "the expanding universe" is just a theory, but it seems at this day and age, to accepted as fact. But how sure are we that this theory is, in fact, a fact?
May I also remind the community that those fantastic telescopes are also not fully accurate. Light can only travel so far in a given time. It is possible that the light we sent out has not yet traveled to those things in the universe that are not moving away from us. Is it possible that the light from those telescopes gets deflected somehow and as a result takes longer to reach certain areas, resulting in a belief that things are getting further away from us, and the end result belief, that the universe is expanding? How are we sure that maybe aliens are not sitting in space with a strange gigantic invisible mirror that in-cases the earth, that sends light that we send out to rooms, where aliens upload images for us to think we are seeing? or whatever?
...Okay, I think that's enough argument from me; I think you get my point. What say you Physics forums?
What are you thoughts about this? Am I a complete idiot? Is there no logic in my statement(s)? Have I understood something incorrectly? Did I say something that is wrong or incorrect? Do you agree with something?
Please share your thoughts! I'd like to hear what you guys think; I would like to be proven wrong, just for the sake of curiosity. I am awaiting your replies...
Thank you for reading,
-Curious_Dude
Let me introduce myself. I am Curious_Dude. Naturally, by nature, I am a curious person, hence the name. I rarely go on the forums, unless something really bothers me and I just MUST find out, and recently, this question hit me right in the head. This is not a homework question by any means, but more of a "just out of curiosity" question(s), brought to you by: my brain.
Anyway, everyone knows that the universe is expanding. You ask a person on the street about the universe, if there is one thing they know or heard about it, they'll say:
random person on street said:it's expanding.
To a person who is not stupid and does not believe in everything someone tells him/her, the natural question is:
not stupid person said:What is the evidence for this? What information do we have that supports such a blatant idea, that the universe is expanding? I'm not getting fatter, so why should I believe the universe is?
Every single scientist or person who knows anything about astronomy will answer them, saying something like:
astronomy knowing creature said:Using our super fantastic telescopes that ARE and CAN Never be wrong, as a human race, we were able to determine that as time goes by, all objects around us in the further reaches of our universe are moving away from us. Therefore, since things are moving away from us, then the only logical explanation is that the universe is expanding.
However, here is my problem. The assumption of the universe expanding due to everything moving away from us can only be true if AND ONLY IF: We are at the Center of the expansion OR the expansion is not uniform.
Here is my reasoning:
let's say you have three cars driving in a line, on a highway at the same speed, and at a distance of say: each 10 meters apart. Then suddenly, two of the cars start to move further away from the middle car. Okay, now here is where it gets interesting. If the speed of all cars did not change, you can only assume that the the distance between each car expanded. The question is, where can the expansion occur in order to cause this change in distance?
You cannot assume the back of the middle car, because then the front car and middle car would change distance at the same rate, and therefore you would only see a distance change between the middle car and the back (last) car. There would be no difference in terms of distance between the front and middle car. Same thing if you assumed the expansion happened between the front car and middle car, except the result would be reversed. To have both cars change their distance between the middle car at the same rate (definition of uniform expansion), you would need the expansion to happen at the CENTER of the middle car! Right?
Here's the problem. According to those fantastic telescopes that are never wrong, We ARE NOT at the CENTER of the universe! So how can we claim that the universe is expanding, if everything is moving away from us, and yet we are not at the center of the expansion?
We would have to see something that is not moving away from us, something moving at the same rate as us, and is moving away at the same rate from the other objects of the universe (just as we are)! And yet, we do not see such a thing. It seems we are the only thing that is somehow changing distances between all these other objects of the universe. So... WTH is really going on then?
Sure you can say:
normal person who occasionally watches science programs said:okay, well the sun and Earth are not changing distances. All I ever hear talk about are those dang galaxies moving away from each other at the same rate from ours.
But that would suggest the expansion of the ENTIRE Universe is happening at the center of own galaxy (which is rediculous to claim; even most scientists doubt our galaxy is at the center of the universe; and the universe has billions of them, what are the chances?). But if that were true, again, we would see something that is and something that is not changing distance between us and the other things within our own galaxy. Yet again, we do not see this, and see "everything" moving away from us. Besides, the galaxies seem to be moving at much faster rate away from our galaxy, then anything else moving away from us. However, if that is true, than the expansion of the universe is not truly uniform. Every way I tried to look at this, everything to me suggests that the universe is expanding non-uniformly.
Ever since I was a child, people told me that the universe is expanding uniformly. I may have heard wrong, I may have read wrong, and this could be a huge misconception in my mind. But if the universe is expanding non-uniformly, how do we know that this is not part of some kind of cycle? How do we not know that maybe the galaxies are orbiting a super-ginormous (holy _ _ _ -) super black hole? or orbiting a bunch really gigantic super black holes that are placed in a very strange geometric position? How do we know that things moving away from us at NOT the same rate, are due to an expansion and not something else? I know "the expanding universe" is just a theory, but it seems at this day and age, to accepted as fact. But how sure are we that this theory is, in fact, a fact?
May I also remind the community that those fantastic telescopes are also not fully accurate. Light can only travel so far in a given time. It is possible that the light we sent out has not yet traveled to those things in the universe that are not moving away from us. Is it possible that the light from those telescopes gets deflected somehow and as a result takes longer to reach certain areas, resulting in a belief that things are getting further away from us, and the end result belief, that the universe is expanding? How are we sure that maybe aliens are not sitting in space with a strange gigantic invisible mirror that in-cases the earth, that sends light that we send out to rooms, where aliens upload images for us to think we are seeing? or whatever?
...Okay, I think that's enough argument from me; I think you get my point. What say you Physics forums?
What are you thoughts about this? Am I a complete idiot? Is there no logic in my statement(s)? Have I understood something incorrectly? Did I say something that is wrong or incorrect? Do you agree with something?
Please share your thoughts! I'd like to hear what you guys think; I would like to be proven wrong, just for the sake of curiosity. I am awaiting your replies...
Thank you for reading,
-Curious_Dude