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Quaoar
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I saw that folks were guessing what percentage of people support the police in the UCLA tasing incident. So I figure, why don't we find out the actual numbers?
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In a library?Guillochon said:. . . . being loud and obnoxious . . . .
That is the next level.Guillochon said:I do not care how nasty the guy was being to the cops, you just slap him in handcuffs and put him in the back of your squad car until he calms down. There's no reason to go to the next level.
russ_watters said:Good thing that isn't what they used...
How so? The former is a threat of temporary discomfort, and the latter is a threat of serious bodily injury.cyrusabdollahi said:Saying, "get up or i'll stun you" is no better than saying "get up or ill shoot you."
And you think this is less force than a stun?There were plenty of cops around to pick him up by the arms and legs and throw him in the back of the squad car. (He was in handcuffs)
Hurkyl said:How so? The former is a threat of temporary discomfort, and the latter is a threat of serious bodily injury.
And you think this is less force than a stun?
Why?cyrusabdollahi said:I don't care which is worse, they are both going over the line in this situation.
If that was so obvious, then why would I ask?Yes, I do. Picking him up and throwing him in the car is obviously less force.
Stop violating the language guidelines, or you'll get tazed. :tongue2: But seriously, force was required here, so you can't condemn anyone merely because force was used.But afterwards, the cops were just being [edited for content] and making threats with the consequency of force.
And there's no risk of hurting or injuring the guy? (Or the guy hurting the cop?)Get 5 of those cops standing around to grab his head, arms, legs, and body and carry him out to the cop car. Is that so hard?...
And there's no risk of hurting or injuring the guy? (Or the guy hurting the cop?)
Stop violating the language guidelines, or you'll get tazed.
If that was so obvious, then why would I ask?
Huh? What does that have to do with this scenario? Nobody was being held down.cyrusabdollahi said:Holding a guy down and saying stand up or I am going to stun you, is sadistic and naive.
My mistake - I didn't know a taser could be used without the barbs. But your article says that Taser warns against using it in that mode because of effectiveness, not because of physical harm:Gelsamel Epsilon said:http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960
The officers used the "drive stun" setting in the Taser, which delivers a shock to a specific part of the body with the front of the Taser, Young said.
Basically, it says "drive stun" hurts but is less effective at incapacitating, so the resistance of the criminal sometimes goes up, which leads to brutality accusations.Even the company that makes the stun gun, Taser International, urges caution about use of the weapon in the "drive-stun" mode and with repeated shocks — uses that The Post survey found have been frequent on the streets of Palm Beach County and the Treasure Coast.
When the two barbed prongs that Tasers shoot are ensnared in skin or clothing, they transmit 50,000 volts of current that override the nervous system and temporarily paralyze muscles. The greater the distance between the prongs, the more incapacitating the effect. Another five-second jolt can be administered by pulling the trigger again as long as the suspect hasn't ripped out one of the prongs.
Officers also can remove the prong cartridge and discharge the weapon directly against a person's body in the "drive-stun" mode to subdue combative arrestees with a searing jolt of pain.
The Taser training manual advises that because it is not incapacitating, this mode can lead to "prolonged struggles" and that "it is in these types of scenarios that officers are often facing accusations of excessive force."
The technique also requires some care, according to Taser International, but the company's guidelines contain conflicting recommendations. The manual points out that the neck and groin "have proven highly sensitive to injury, such as crushing to the trachea or testicles if applied forcefully." The manual continues, "However, these areas have proven highly effective targets."
A recent amendment to the DeLand Police Department's Taser policy is clearer, saying that the "drive-stun" mode can be used only under exceptional circumstances. Local policies don't address the use of the "drive-stun" mode in writing, although narratives in some of the reports examined by The Post acknowledge that this use is discouraged.
You don't see the risk in trying to restrain someone's legs? Seriously?cyrusabdollahi said:How is a guy getting carried away by 5 cops by the arms,legs and head, IN HANDCUFFS going to be a huge risk?
russ_watters said:You don't see the risk in trying to restrain someone's legs? Seriously?
How would they get him down those flights of stairs?cyrusabdollahi said:I've seen them do it on "Cops." They hand cuffed the guys hands and legs, picked him up by the arms and legs, and put him in the back of the police car. The guy couldn't move. I was like damn, they went all out on his butt.
(italics and underlining in the original document; bold added by me)The TASER® may be used when a subject is displaying active, aggressive or aggravated aggressive resistance to an officer
attempting to conduct legal law enforcement activities (see 6/002.00, Use of Force, for definitions).
The TASER® will not be used:
1. when the officer knows a subject has come in contact with flammable liquids or is in a flammable atmosphere;
2. when the subject is in a position where a fall may cause substantial injury or death;
3. punitively for purposes of coercion, or in an unjustified manner;
4. when a prisoner is handcuffed;
5. to escort or jab individuals;
6. to awaken unconscious or intoxicated individuals; or
7. when the subject is visibly pregnant, unless deadly force is the only other option.
russ_watters said:Basically, it says "drive stun" hurts but is less effective at incapacitating, so the resistance of the criminal sometimes goes up, which leads to brutality accusations.
It does not say that use of that setting in-and-of itself is dangerous (except when applied to particularly sensitive areas).
6. to awaken unconscious or intoxicated individuals; or
The UCLA incident, which occurred on June 1, 2016, involved a murder-suicide at the UCLA campus. The gunman, a former PhD student, shot and killed his former professor before turning the gun on himself.
The police response to the UCLA incident was immediate and thorough. The campus was put on lockdown, and multiple law enforcement agencies, including the LAPD and FBI, responded to the scene to secure the area and investigate the incident.
There were some criticisms of the police response to the UCLA incident, specifically regarding the delay in notifying students and faculty about the lockdown. Some also questioned why it took several hours for the campus to be declared safe.
In response to the UCLA incident, the university has implemented several measures to improve campus safety. This includes increasing police presence, conducting active shooter drills, and improving communication protocols in the event of an emergency.
The UCLA community, especially the students and faculty who were on campus during the incident, were deeply affected by the tragedy. The university provided counseling and support services for those who needed it, and the community came together to mourn and support each other during this difficult time.