Inability to memorize anything-starting to haunt me

[Listiba]

Inability to memorize anything--starting to haunt me

To get right to the point, I am currently getting a C in the dreaded calc 2. It is because I simply cannot drill anything into my head. The center of mass formulas, the arc length formula, the surface area formula, error bound formulas, most of the common trig integrals. I could not recall most of them on my midterm (which I failed miserably, <50%) despite having no problem using them in homework and acing my open note quizzes. My midterm consisted of a few flawlessly completed differentials, a correctly solved surface area problem (lucked out that it was a sphere and I didn't need to use the formula), and a bunch of 0 credit embarassments. These questions are loved by the average student because they are easy points for them.

I have always barely scraped by in classes that were heavy on memorization--poli sci, econ, psych. That's what drew me to math and physics, specifically to a "learn by doing" school (cal poly). Math has been very low on memorization until now. I breeze through physics because all my professors allow equation sheets on exams.

I guess my question is whether I would be able to handle math courses beyond calc 2 with my poor memorization skills. Is it only going to get worse? (I'm a materials engineering major). I feel I have a strong grasp of the main topics of this course--integration techniques, differential equations. I am often the person people come to for help, even by my peers that have higher grades than I do.

Also, if there is anybody out there like me, what did you do to deal with it? I've tried writing things down repeatedly, flash cards, reciting them over and over, but nothing works. I can do 100 practice problems and forget the formula I used within minutes. I understand that everyone remembers things differently, but in my many years of schooling I have not been able to find a method that works.

Thanks!

 

[symbolipoint]

I'll try to help, but this is not much.

You are doing better than I did the first time in Calculus 2. Could you learn to derive a few of the formulas, and from those, learn to derive other formulas? Could you draw a picture or a graph to help remake a formula?

One of my troubles was with remembering formulas for trigonometric substitutions for some integrals. I found that I could draw right triangles and label the parts and from them, find what substitution expressions to make so I could proceed with the integral. No real memorization; just understanding right triangle and pythagorean theorem.

 

[chiro]

Hey Listiba and welcome to the forums.

One recommendation I have (and this applies regardless of what you are learning) is to put the results into your own language.

By your own language I mean a way that is the best way for you to retain information. If you are trying to remember things in a way that is described in a foreign language that is un-natural to you with regards to retaining things then see if you have other ways to describe the exact same thing that are a lot easier to recall.

In terms of the specifics, that is something you will have to work on.

The way you remember it need not be mathematical at all: as long as you have a way to relate it back to the mathematical language then it doesn't matter how you remember it or what is actually remembered.

Try and think of the things that you remember easily: lots of people remember particular kinds of things that resonate with them more than other things.

There are lots of different techniques that are suggested by cognitive and memory gurus like mind maps and so on, but the thing that underlies all these techniques regardless of the method and the author, is that they are looking at different ways to say the same thing in a way that easily resonates with the individual and is easy to relate to and remember.

 

[Listiba]

Thanks for the responses.

I'll try to help, but this is not much.

You are doing better than I did the first time in Calculus 2. Could you learn to derive a few of the formulas, and from those, learn to derive other formulas? Could you draw a picture or a graph to help remake a formula?

One of my troubles was with remembering formulas for trigonometric substitutions for some integrals. I found that I could draw right triangles and label the parts and from them, find what substitution expressions to make so I could proceed with the integral. No real memorization; just understanding right triangle and pythagorean theorem.

I do end up trying to derive most of the common trig integrals, but time simply does not allow for it in most cases. Most of the time I can handle the "easy" functions (cos/sin/tan)--the "triangle" takes me about a minute--but when a hyperbolic inverse csc comes around, I end up playing with the problem for 15 minutes and get nowhere because I simply didn't recognize what it was. It's extremely frustrating for me, because I KNOW how to solve these problems but end up blowing it because I failed to recognize something that you are expected to see instantly.

Hey Listiba and welcome to the forums.

One recommendation I have (and this applies regardless of what you are learning) is to put the results into your own language.

By your own language I mean a way that is the best way for you to retain information. If you are trying to remember things in a way that is described in a foreign language that is un-natural to you with regards to retaining things then see if you have other ways to describe the exact same thing that are a lot easier to recall.

In terms of the specifics, that is something you will have to work on.

The way you remember it need not be mathematical at all: as long as you have a way to relate it back to the mathematical language then it doesn't matter how you remember it or what is actually remembered.

Try and think of the things that you remember easily: lots of people remember particular kinds of things that resonate with them more than other things.

There are lots of different techniques that are suggested by cognitive and memory gurus like mind maps and so on, but the thing that underlies all these techniques regardless of the method and the author, is that they are looking at different ways to say the same thing in a way that easily resonates with the individual and is easy to relate to and remember.

Thanks for the welcome. I've lurked this forum for many years but never got around to registering.

My problem is retaining concrete things like formulas and facts, whereas I have no trouble remembering things like processes and methods of solving problems. I remember when I was taking Spanish classes, I was quite good at grammar and conjugations but was often unable to form a sentence because I could not recall the vocabulary words.

I have done quite a bit of research regarding memory techniques but they all seem to be strange and perhaps a bit corny to me, so I've never given it a shot. I feel quite discouraged by the thought that I have to go through some fancy method to remember something simple that the average person can read a few times over the course of 30 seconds and have it etched into their mind.

 

[symbolipoint]

Maybe you just need LONGER time to memorize facts? Maybe you need to learn to recite them in both a spoken and a written form. You could begin with a small list, and gradually build the size of this list.

 

[mathwonk]

do you know your name? your phone number? the words to your favorite song? if so, then you can certainly memorize. what makes it possible? hmmm? hint: repetitition

 

[MarneMath]

As Mathwonk stated it is a lot of repetition. I have a memory that most would consider poor. I can use a formula in one problem, forget it within 5 minutes. I know this a problem that I face, but I also learn that if I use something enough times, it'll eventual stick with me for period. So when I study for a class that requires specific formula, I do two things.

1)I do a lot of problems with the formula, until eventually I retain it. I do this immediately when I learn it, and then I redo all the problems prior to a test that requires it to help enforce it.
2)I make flashcards. I give my wife the flashcards and have her call me randomly throughout the day and ask me to state a formula. She obviously has no idea what any of it means, so on the otherside of the card, I write out in words what the symbols mean. Doing this also helps me memorize it. Something about translating the symbol into english back into math helps.

Hopefully this will help you out some.

 

[scout6686]

I don't know about VERY advanced mathematics but just obsessively repeating seems to work mostly. I remember I learned this around trig where I found all the identies etc to be so annoying and I tried to avoid them. Eventually you just have to get used to using them to the point that you understand what they do (physically/graphically) and how they are connected. It also helps to know about their meaning and how they relate to the themes (eg limits -> continuity in calculus) -- although this won't be is easy if you have time constraints.

 

[Klungo]

Some formulas are easy to derive from others. Others are a bit more difficult and would be better off memorizing them.

In the case of arclength, think of the simple distance formula.

ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2

Then "solve for s" and you'll have your arclength formula. i.e. divide both sides by dt^2 or dx^2, algebra, integrate.

 

[Nano-Passion]

Go to the doctor and tell him about this and make it clear that you want a solution as well. There can be several causes, one being anemia (and I'm making no diagnosis but I'm just giving a completely random example here). Your doctor may refer you to another clinician, at the very least you might be prescribed supplements that will improve your memory recall.

Not every thing is genetic, there is a nonzero fraction of it that is environmental. While I can't tell you how much of it is genetic, you should be aware that you can do something about the environmental factors.

 

[mynick]

If you don't have a pathological problem...if you are ok in general,then you could boost your memory if you just:
1.get regular sleep,8 hours sleep every single night,no exceptions!Rewarding in the long run,guaranteed.
2. Sleep standard hours.Flexible sleeping time is bad( tonight at 9 tommorow at 12).
3. Coffee keeps you awake,but eat a little bit of basil every day uncooked!No joke!
4.REPETITION is the cure to a weak memory.repeat repeat.Did i mention to repeat? :P

maybe you could see some improvement after a while,who knows...

 

[Nano-Passion]

If you don't have a pathological problem...if you are ok in general,then you could boost your memory if you just:
1.get regular sleep,8 hours sleep every single night,no exceptions!Rewarding in the long run,guaranteed.
2. Sleep standard hours.Flexible sleeping time is bad( tonight at 9 tommorow at 12).
3. Coffee keeps you awake,but eat a little bit of basil every day uncooked!No joke!
4.REPETITION is the cure to a weak memory.repeat repeat.Did i mention to repeat? :P

maybe you could see some improvement after a while,who knows...

Why is flexible sleeping time bad?

 

[mynick]

Why is flexible sleeping time bad?

ask a doctor how differenent sleeping hours decreasing your mental strenght :)

 

[Nano-Passion]

ask a doctor how differenent sleeping hours decreasing your mental strenght :)

Well I was looking to get a source from you but I googled it myself so its alright. And doctors aren't always right either.

Anyways here is one article: http://ccs.sagepub.com/content/4/3/304.abstract

It states that sleeping at the same time everyday decreases your morning latency in the morning.

This other article states that you may fall asleep with irregular sleeping hours. http://sleepforscience.com/stuff/co...567db2c113cf0e8/pdf/wolfson_carskadon1998.pdf

However, it doesn't conclude anything about sleep overall. The subjects they are studying (adolescents) have to wake up early for school. What about people in college that don't start classes till afternoon or even in the evening? I myself never loose sleep due to irregular sleeping hours.

I still don't see how it decreases your "mental strength" though? Perhaps it can indirectly if you lose sleep due to it, but that is about all. That is, unless you can provide a couple of sources.

 

[Listiba]

Small update.

Just took my final. Couldn't recall most of the "memorization" things (formulas, common trig integrals/derivatives) despite knowing all of them by heart yesterday. Probably failed.

Maximum frustration! I'm really hoping further courses don't require this much memorization.

There's nothing wrong with my mental strength! In fact I am quite competent at doing... pretty much anything except storing and regurgitating information.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

There's nothing wrong with my mental strength! In fact I am quite competent at doing... pretty much anything except storing and regurgitating information.

In my opinion this is a big problem. Being able to store and recall facts is crucial. Some people disagree with this; they think you can just look things up when you need them. To some extent this is true. But when you're talking to another scientist you're going to need to have a large working vocabulary and KNOW FACTS. When you're working on a research problem and you're doing a literature review it's going to kill you if you don't just KNOW things when they are referenced in passing. If you're in the lab, it's going to be murderous if you can't remember what equipment is called what or which chemical is called which or the order of a specific protocol. You won't be able to program if you have to look up syntax and simple algorithms all the time. Solving things analytically is much swifter if you don't have to constantly look up vector identities, trig identities, derivatives of things, Fourier transforms of things... Etc, etc, etc.

I'm not saying to memorize everything, but the more you have in your brain, the better. This is an issue and you need to fix it.

Flash cards, make lists, write things down, constantly review, etc.

 

[yenchin]

Perhaps try something like this?

 

[thegreenlaser]

One thing that I find very helpful is to learn to use formulas/facts you know to help you figure out other formulas/facts that you don't quite know.

Here's an example. All through high school, I had trouble remembering the formula relating velocity, position, and time. Before a test, I would memorize v = x/t, but then I would usually forget it later and have to memorize it again. I knew that it was either v = x/t or v = xt or v = t/x, but I could never remember which. When I finally got it solidified in my memory was when I realized, hey, when I talk about a car's velocity I use kilometres per hour: distance per time. If the units of velocity are distance over time, then v has to be x/t for the units to make sense. In fact, I find this sort of thing (dimensional analysis) to be very useful for remembering formulas in general.

Now that I'm out of high school and in engineering, I have a quite a lot of formulas at my grasp, even though I may not have them entirely memorized. I like to make connections between the things I learn so that the things I remember for sure (usually formulas I use a lot and concepts/principles) can help me to figure out the things I only somewhat remember. It doesn't let me avoid memorization entirely, but it helps me to be more efficient in what I memorize. I also find that this sort of memorization technique keeps things in my brain for a much longer period of time, because there's redundancy in the things I know.

 

[MathWarrior]

Learning math and physics by memorization is a bad way to learn. You do not simply memorize a Spanish dictionary to learn Spanish. You must use it, it should be the professors job to teach you it if they are doing a bad job they should re-evaluate their teaching practices.

If they feel memorization is the only way to learn it, they are mistaken. People learn different ways, what may work for some simply will not work for others, there job as a paid teacher is to expose you to the material in a way you can best learn and your job as a student is to learn.

If this is not being done, they should be reported to the director at your school. There job is not mathematician/physics its "professor of mathematics/physics" so they should start teaching. This is the main difference between a good and bad educator.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

Learning math and physics by memorization is a bad way to learn. You do not simply memorize a Spanish dictionary to learn Spanish. You must use it, it should be the professors job to teach you it if they are doing a bad job they should re-evaluate their teaching practices.

If they feel memorization is the only way to learn it, they are mistaken. People learn different ways, what may work for some simply will not work for others, there job as a paid teacher is to expose you to the material in a way you can best learn and your job as a student is to learn.

If this is not being done, they should be reported to the director at your school. There job is not mathematician/physics its "professor of mathematics/physics" so they should start teaching. This is the main difference between a good and bad educator.

I agree that memorization ion it's own is useless.

But, having to memorize facts, formulae, and such and learning physics are not mutually exclusive!

There's no reason why a student should not be expected to remember things while ALSO being expected to think critically, solve problems, and gain a deep intuitive understanding!

 

[MathWarrior]

There's no reason why a student should not be expected to remember things while ALSO being expected to think critically, solve problems, and gain a deep intuitive understanding!

I agree, no reason to not be expected to memorize some things, its a question to what degree. Basic things definitely should be memorized, but what is considered basic?

 

[micromass]

Learning math and physics by memorization is a bad way to learn. You do not simply memorize a Spanish dictionary to learn Spanish. You must use it, it should be the professors job to teach you it if they are doing a bad job they should re-evaluate their teaching practices.

If they feel memorization is the only way to learn it, they are mistaken. People learn different ways, what may work for some simply will not work for others, there job as a paid teacher is to expose you to the material in a way you can best learn and your job as a student is to learn.

If this is not being done, they should be reported to the director at your school. There job is not mathematician/physics its "professor of mathematics/physics" so they should start teaching. This is the main difference between a good and bad educator.

Students in college really have to learn how to self-study. I get how you can complain about a high-school teacher. But complaining about a professor in college is silly. By that time, the students should know better than to rely on their professor to educate them.

I've had many "bad professors" in my college, so I quickly learned how to rely on myself and other books. This self-reliance is a skill that is so necessary in college.

In short: don't complain about your professor not explaining things well. Rather, take your education into your own hands.

Also, memorization is a very good technique to study physics and mathematics. Being able to derive things yourself is good, but sometimes you just need to memorize things or you'll lose time. Memorization is an essential skill in college. Of course, it is far from the only way you should study. Understanding is also extremely important.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

I agree, no reason to not be expected to memorize some things, its a question to what degree. Basic things definitely should be memorized, but what is considered basic?

I always thought formula sheets for exams were a bad idea, for example. I think you should have anything at your fingertips that you need for the exam. I think students should NOT, however, be under extraordinarily onerous time constraints.

That's just my opinion.

 

[MathWarrior]

Students in college really have to learn how to self-study. I get how you can complain about a high-school teacher. But complaining about a professor in college is silly. By that time, the students should know better than to rely on their professor to educate them.

While self studying is a great skill to have. I personally feel, if your paying $60,000 or more to be educated by a institution. They should be fulfilling their contract to teach you it without the need of extra self teaching, not everyone in college has the time to do that.

Should you have homework, have to study etc.? Absolutely, but if I do all my homework get 100%'s on everything and fail the exams there is a problem.

If anything the fact that they are being paid large sums of money to teach you should make it even more of an issue.

 

[micromass]

While self studying is a great skill to have. I personally feel, if your paying $60,000 or more to be educated by a institution. They should be fulfilling their contract to teach you it without the need of extra self teaching, not everyone in college has the time to do that.

I'm sorry, but if you can't self-teach, then you shouldn't be in college. College is not the place to spoonfeed the students. The students need to be responsible for their own education.

Should you have homework, have to study etc.? Absolutely, but if I do all my homework get 100%'s on everything and fail the exams there is a problem.

If anything the fact that they are being paid large sums of money to teach you should make it even more of an issue.

Most professors aren't even hired to teach you. They are being hired to produce good research. And they are being judged on how good their research is. They are rarely judged on how good their teaching is. So it makes sense that they care less about teaching than about research.

In my college, there were a lot of people complaining about their professors. But I never saw a professor being fired because of bad teaching. The only thing that happened is that they got less teaching duties.

Seriously, if you expect all professors to be good teachers, then you will be disappointed many times. Especially in grad school where professors really don't care about their classes.

 

[MathWarrior]

I'm sorry, but if you can't self-teach, then you shouldn't be in college. College is not the place to spoonfeed the students. The students need to be responsible for their own education.

This defeats the purpose of a college then. I am willing to bet the only reason they never got fired is because most students are not willing to make legal complaints with the department of education. Gradschool, is entirely different then undergraduate.

 

[micromass]

This defeats the purpose of a college then. I am willing to bet the only reason they never got fired is because most students are not willing to make legal complaints with the department of education. Gradschool, is entirely different then undergraduate.

A college education to me is

• A college degree showing that you know the basics
• Opportunities to talk with like-minded people
• Research opportunities
• Guidance by professionals

The most important thing is the first point: getting a degree. But a college degree alone doesn't show much. I knew people graduating with a masters in mathematics who knew very little and who relied on the lectures. They didn't want to self-study or get ahead of others. College was wasted on them.

I don't count "good lectures" or "being spoonfed" as part of college. Personally, I find that college should leave the students more freedom. And they should enforce self-study even more seriously.

 

[SolsticeFire]

I don't count "good lectures" or "being spoonfed" as part of college. Personally, I find that college should leave the students more freedom. And they should enforce self-study even more seriously.

I agree with this 100%, but why am I paying $ 60000/yr to be free?

Solsticefire

 

[micromass]

I agree with this 100%, but why am I paying $ 60000/yr to be free?

Solsticefire

I'm certainly no proponent to paying $60000/yr for a college. It's simply too much, but that's another discussion.

The way I see it is that you're essentially paying the $60000 for a degree. If you get exciting and good lectures, that's an extra bonus. But it is not something you should expect.

In an ideal world, there should be good lectures and guidance. But that's far from always the case in the real world. And maybe it's better like this: this way you learn to be self-reliant.

 

[MathWarrior]

The way I see it is that you're essentially paying the $60000 for a degree. If you get exciting and good lectures, that's an extra bonus. But it is not something you should expect.

Given this it would seem you would maybe agree with the idea that a college degree is a waste of time then. If all you're doing is paying for a $60,000 diploma for something you can teach yourself, and might have already even taught yourself. Why waste the time and money paying for it? It's not even guaranteed to get you a job.

I personally feel the idea of college being self studied is just a difference opinion on who you ask. Some places teach differently then others, but ultimately I would think the primary goal is education. If it isn't you should probably go somewhere else.

 

[MarneMath]

Is college just what happens in the classroom? I've always felt college was more about talking to people with similar interest, having access to professors who have, at the least, a mild obligation to provide assistance, and a chance to learn the basics of research. I can honestly say, the majority of my education did not occur sitting in a class or talking to a professor. The majority of my education occur at the library with a pile of books, and a group of like minded students asking each other questions.

 

[Arsenic&Lace]

Rote memorization can be efficient, but I would suggest attempting to have a sketch of derivations in your head; this can reduce the "cost" of remembering something. If I remember what I'm trying to do, I can usually figure out what it takes to get there.

Take the center of mass. I understand what an average is, that's a simple definition and idea. I know that the idea behind center of mass is to average the masses of several discrete masses weighted by their distances. I know that for a continuous distribution of masses I need an integral. From these basic ideas I quickly reconstruct the formula.

For trig integrals, I know that the idea is to say that some expression under a radical is either a leg or a hypotenuse of a right triangle. I write down the triangle and decide which it should be through simple geometric reasoning (i.e. if it's an a -b it has to be a leg, or an a + b oh that's a hypotenuse). Then I know to find a differential for any unit substitution I can take derivatives.

EDIT: For arc length I just remember that any curve looked at close enough is just an infinitesimally short line segment, and I know how to find those with the Pythagorean theorem.

EDIT 2: I personally enjoy finding a private place where I read a derivation, and then stand up, and lecture (out loud!) attempting to reproduce everything I just read, using a whiteboard, and taking an explanatory tone. I also like to take a textbook and paraphrase a derivation line by line on paper. I've filled notebooks this way. This is exceptionally useful (for me, at any rate) when faced with long passages of confusing lecture notes, immediately after the lecture. Doing each of these at least once or twice can be useful; more times, and you'll know it excellently.

 

[symbolipoint]

According to the ideas mentioned in the video, good memorization in Mathematics uses, or can often use pictures. Pictures can show information that can be developed or later redeveloped into things that you wish to memorize.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

This defeats the purpose of a college then. I am willing to bet the only reason they never got fired is because most students are not willing to make legal complaints with the department of education. Gradschool, is entirely different then undergraduate.

Legal complaints?
LEGAL complaints...?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I had a teacher, in a sophomore level course for physics majors tell us, explicitly, on day one:

1. That he had tenure and the only thing that could get him fired was committing a felony.

2. That 90% of his pay came from research obligations and only ten percent amounted to teaching.

3. That anyone interested in signing up for his intramural sports team could do so after class. (admittedly, they were pretty good...)

Now this was a fellow of a large national science society (to be vague). He pulled in an incredible amount of grant money. He had a large group of both grad and undergrad researchers.

He was the worst teacher I ever had.

Nonetheless, I learned much from his class. Why? Because I studied. I read the book. I talked to fellow students. I worked tons of problems.

Looking back, even if he had been a great lecturer, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. I NOW realize that most of my learning comes from outside the class. Pretty lectures are icing on the cake, but fairly useless in the long run.

But his tests were really easy, so if you got a 100% on the homework you did well on the exams. I guess perhaps you might have liked him.

I always found that knowing a professors exams are miserably difficult made me overstudy. THAT's how I learn. The fear that the professor's exam is NOTHING like the homework. Knowing you have to search every book, every crevasse for an extra problem to work on. Scrape for every last drop of understanding.

 

[MathWarrior]

I had a teacher, in a sophomore level course for physics majors tell us, explicitly, on day one:

1. That he had tenure and the only thing that could get him fired was committing a felony.

2. That 90% of his pay came from research obligations and only ten percent amounted to teaching.

3. That anyone interested in signing up for his intramural sports team could do so after class. (admittedly, they were pretty good...)

You can have tenure dismissed in many cases other then a felony, especially now of days. Regardless of the point tenure laws are individualized by state, my state for instance has abolished tenure.