Psychedelics and Time Distortion

[Oblivion]

I occasionally have used natural psychedelic drugs for spiritual and scientific purposes (I do not abuse them and I treat them with the utmost respect), and have found that on several of these occasions my sense of time became severely distorted and disconnected. On the first of these occasions the effects of the drug lasted around 14 hours. However, during these 14 hours I experienced a passage of time that I believed to be roughly a two year period. On the second occasion I had asked a friend the time and he told me it was 6:15. I waited awhile and asked him again to the reply of 6:00.

There has been much talk lately of the potential for elongating our lives through biological altercation. But after having had these experiences I am led to wonder if perhaps the key to living a "longer" life is in the way we perceive the passage of time itself. If there were a way to be "more conscious" within each passing second so as to sort of prolong it, we would essentially be living longer (even though biologically we would still die at the same age). This is very strange, and although I haven't fully wrapped my mind around it yet, I can honestly say that I did live two years within that 14 hour period. Which leads me to wonder if there is any potential for developing a substance from these drugs (without the severe sensory alteration) that could allow an individual to attain this state indefinitely? Also, is it possible to exercise your brain in such a way as to develop the ability to process more sensory input in a given amount of time than you do regularly? Any thoughts or similar experiences?

 

[PIT2]

Im aware that time can become distorted when for instance, a person has an enormous amount of fun, or a hellish time. In the first case time will seem to go faster, in the second it will seem to go slower.

Can u tell me what u experienced during ur 14 hour/2 year period?


Also, i have read something about LSD experiments being done in the 50's or 60's, and some subjects found their consciousness being encapsulated inside prehistoric reptiles.

Here it is:

In the 1950s, while conducting research into the beliefs of LSD as a psychotherapeutic tool, Grof had one female patient who suddenly became convinced she had assumed the identity of a female of a species of prehistoric reptile. During the course of her hallucination, she not only gave a richly detailed description of what it felt like to be encapsuled in such a form, but noted that the portion of the male of the species's anatomy was a patch of colored scales on the side of its head. What was startling to Grof was that although the woman had no prior knowledge about such things, a conversation with a zoologist later confirmed that in certain species of reptiles colored areas on the head do indeed play an important role as triggers of sexual arousal. The woman's experience was not unique. During the course of his research, Grof encountered examples of patients regressing and identifying with virtually every species on the evolutionary tree (research findings which helped influence the man-into-ape scene in the movie Altered States). Moreover, he found that such experiences frequently contained obscure zoological details which turned out to be accurate.

Regressions into the animal kingdom were not the only puzzling psychological phenomena Grof encountered. He also had patients who appeared to tap into some sort of collective or racial unconscious. Individuals with little or no education suddenly gave detailed descriptions of Zoroastrian funerary practices and scenes from Hindu mythology. In other categories of experience, individuals gave persuasive accounts of out-of-body journeys, of precognitive glimpses of the future, of regressions into apparent past-life incarnations.

http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html

I know of many other cases that seem to indicate that consciousness can travel through time(forward or backward), so perhaps this is actually possible.

 

[PIT2]

U might want to browse through this archive of 'psychedelic' experiences and see if any of theirs matches urs:

http://www.maps.org/psychedelicreview/

 

[Philocrat]

I occasionally have used natural psychedelic drugs for spiritual and scientific purposes (I do not abuse them and I treat them with the utmost respect), and have found that on several of these occasions my sense of time became severely distorted and disconnected. On the first of these occasions the effects of the drug lasted around 14 hours. However, during these 14 hours I experienced a passage of time that I believed to be roughly a two year period. On the second occasion I had asked a friend the time and he told me it was 6:15. I waited awhile and asked him again to the reply of 6:00.

There has been much talk lately of the potential for elongating our lives through biological altercation. But after having had these experiences I am led to wonder if perhaps the key to living a "longer" life is in the way we perceive the passage of time itself. If there were a way to be "more conscious" within each passing second so as to sort of prolong it, we would essentially be living longer (even though biologically we would still die at the same age). This is very strange, and although I haven't fully wrapped my mind around it yet, I can honestly say that I did live two years within that 14 hour period. Which leads me to wonder if there is any potential for developing a substance from these drugs (without the severe sensory alteration) that could allow an individual to attain this state indefinitely? Also, is it possible to exercise your brain in such a way as to develop the ability to process more sensory input in a given amount of time than you do regularly? Any thoughts or similar experiences?

Yes, Natural Substances do have the capacity to speed up and slow down time in conscious creatures. Distorted senses of time simply implies that we do experience things that are visually off balance on the regulatory scale of consciousness. This should not come as a surprise to us at all as the whole notion "NORMALITY" fundamentally rests on REGULATORY LAWS of nature.

Even now, it is becoming very clear that CHAOS is decisively an ORDER. How consciousness translate chaos into order, weave the world into sensible forms, queue and reorder events in time, mask dimensions of events space to allow individuation of perceivable objects and quantities etc, has for thousands of years remained the delusive battle ground for philosophical puzzles. In fact, this is the main source of SCEPTICISM in philosophy. For example, this is the source of David Hume's Epistemology (for those of you are versed in his sceptical philosophical programmes).

On the issue of SCALE OF REFERENCE, it is not clear how things are, or are perceivable, in each scale of reference. Given that all these experience altering substances take us on an ethereal trip from one scale of reference to the next, it is not clear how each scale of reference is experientially ordered (except perhaps a few of the indiviaul acccounts that we have heard people give). Equally, even if all these altered experiences are infinitely prolonged or shortened, it still does not affect the whole notion of a LIVING CREATURE POSSESSING THE PHYSICAL POWER TO SURVIVE PHYSICAL DESTRUCTION AND LIVE FOREVER! If this is true, it follows that experience alteration via application of natural substances are fundamentally delusive and has no relation to reality. It also means that the notion of a living creature surviving and living for all eternity or forever is completely detached from or is independent of the scale of reference in which each creature is experientially installed, and the length of any altered eperience therein (shortened or prolonged) is metaphysically and epistemologically irrelevant.

NOTE: Being experientially installed in an extended or reduced time continuum is completely different from being physically installed in an extended or reduced time continuum. They are not metaphysically equivalent. In reality, the most revered and desirable would be the the latter and not the former. For me, and perhaps for many people too, a million years in a minute is metaphysically and epistemologically delusive!

 

[PIT2]

Here is another example of time distortion (or rather: time control) during a Near-Death-Experience:

"I had an out-of-body experience. But I see it as part of life, not a religious experience," said the 56-year-old Escondido woman. She suffered respiratory failure four years ago from complications due to post-polio syndrome and a severe virus.

Schlesinger said she was placed on life support in the intensive-care unit and realized she was dying. "Time suddenly became very important. I could slow it down or speed it up," she said.

"Time slowed down, enabling me to go through all of my life and consciously forgive everyone who had ever hurt me. Then it was easy to let go."


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20050501-9999-lz1c01dead.html

 

[Oblivion]

Thanks for the links, that made for some interesting reading. Might I suggest http://www.erowid.org/ if you are interested in a neutral and scientific approach to human-drug interaction.

As for an explanation of living 2 years time within 14 hours, I honestly cannot explain what it was like, because these experiences truly defy explanation. It was just my "sense" of how long it lasted. There really isn't a point of reference when you're on drugs for gauging the amount of time that has passed, because the relationships time is based off of remain unchanged.

Philocrat, I agree with most of what you said, except for the last part which is not entirely clear. In my trip the experiential and physical notions of time seemed interdependent, ex: I only got hungry every few months which was consistent with the feeling of 2 yrs in 14 hours. Hence if I were somehow placed on this real time to drug time ratio the rest of my life (and it may come to this if I get dumped again, women and reality don't mix ) then in reference to real time wouldn't I have elongated the time I was conscious?

 

[RAD4921]

Einstein on time distortion and state of mind

Einstein once remarked that while sitting next to your favorite girl time goes by fast, sitting on a hot stove time goes by slowly. No doubt time itself does have a psychic component to it.

The link below is an online (partial) article in New Scientist Magazine on the possible medicinal uses of psychedelic drugs from treating anxiety in dying patients with extasy (MDMA), treating various forms of mental illness to spiritual uses as you suggest in your post.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524881.400

 

[Marc Carpentier]

I just wanted to add a recent anecdotal item to this thread. A Buffalo, NY firefighter (Donald Herbert) recently made a sudden recovery after nearly 10 years of being mostly blind and all but mute due to a brain damaging injury from a 1995 fire. He shocked his family and friends when he abruptly asked for his wife. His initial recovery was striking and somewhat miraculous.

Herbert at one point reportedly asked how long he had been "under." When told it had been almost 10 years, he replied, "I thought it was three months."

 

[Kerrie]

So is this a suggestion that time is all in the mind?

 

[selfAdjoint]

Our perception of time certainly is. There doesn't seem to be any sufficient reason to suppose that that's all there is to time.

 

[arildno]

There is nothing more "wrong" with the time-sense under the influence of these drug types than the "normal" time-sense, since both would agree to the number of ticks a particular clock has made as long as they do not move relative to each other.

 

[z0r]

I found the bit about the regression to lower evolutionary forms interesting.

But certainly, I don't find it surprising. Humans are animals, like any other, and animals primarily run on instinct. I think the only thing which makes humans any different is that many humans are convinced that they somehow are different. We are not as far away from the primates and other forms as some like to think.

I've had interesting experiences while shrooming, but the past two times have been disturbing ("bad trips", so to speak). Many claim that mushrooms bring one closer to nature, and I would have to agree, with the assertion that nature can sometimes be terrifying.

Mushrooms make you want to go out and do things (that's probably why it's called "tripping"), but they also mess with your sense of direction. So I'll go out on an adventure and get lost. Then slight panic sets in, and I begin thinking about how animalistic everything is, how we are just these beings on this globe, and only a few have even a glimmer of understanding about it all.

I can remember a particular instant when I was beset with the idea that we're all really just rotting, heading towards death. Our skin perpetually sheds, our hair falls out, our bodies grow frail and tired, and life itself is simply a struggle against the ever encroaching and increasing entropy all around us...

The last time I tripped was about a year ago. Might be time to do it again soon.

 

[Evo]

Our perception of time certainly is. There doesn't seem to be any sufficient reason to suppose that that's all there is to time

Exactly. Just because our mental perception of time is distorted, that doesn't mean "real" time has been altered and to think so just means you need to get off the drugs...

I was very ill with mononucleosis when I was 14. I was taken to the hospital when they could not get my fever under 106F. I was in the hospital for three days and have no memory of it. I remember being taken in then I remember my mom sitting on the foot of the bed telling me that I might be able to get out in a few days if I countinued to improve. She told me that I had already been there for 3 days. I thought that I had just gotten there. I have no memory of the three days even though I am told that I never lost consciousness.

 

[saltydog]

I can honestly say that I did live two years within that 14 hour period.

I disagree. You can honestly say you "think you lived two years". Why am I not supprised . . .

It's just not there. The drug is making you think that and I've heard similar things about what people think when they're high. Really not a good idea to be experimenting that way. Injestion of hallacinogens leads to schizophrenia. It's documented. Take care.

 

[Kerrie]

I disagree. You can honestly say you "think you lived two years". Why am I not supprised . . .

It's just not there. The drug is making you think that and I've heard similar things about what people think when they're high. Really not a good idea to be experimenting that way. Injestion of hallacinogens leads to schizophrenia. It's documented. Take care.

How can one disagree with another's experience? Experience and perspective are truly individual...

 

[saltydog]

How can one disagree with another's experience? Experience and perspective are truly individual...

Hello Kerrie. You know, if you tell me you time traveled, I'll disagree with you simply because I don't believe in time travel and if you tell me that while you're on an acid trip, then . . . I'll feel I understand why you said that, feel symapthy for you, and then disagree with you. Also, I think you'll agree with me on the schizophrenia part.

 

[Oblivion]

I appreciate your concern, but I've found that the mind-shattering perspective gained through these experiences outweighs the documented risks associated with occasional use. It's right up there with birth and death.

One thing I am still curious about is the aspect of accelerating the amount of sensory information you assimilate and how this would relate to your conscious perception of time passage. For example, take two people A and B who live the exact same lifespan. Person A however has a brain that is capable of processing a larger quantity of sensory input than person B over a given period of time. Since consciousness is partially related to your sensory input, is it possible to say that person A is more conscious than person B? Additionally, can you then say that person A was "more alive" or "lived more" than person B? And would this then imply that person A, being more consciously present in each passing second than B, was able to experience more time?

 

[Evo]

I appreciate your concern, but I've found that the mind-shattering perspective gained through these experiences outweighs the documented risks associated with occasional use. It's right up there with birth and death.

I've done mushrooms, heck I've done all hallucinogens and they are a complete waste of time, IMHO.

One thing I am still curious about is the aspect of accelerating the amount of sensory information you assimilate and how this would relate to your conscious perception of time passage. For example, take two people A and B who live the exact same lifespan. Person A however has a brain that is capable of processing a larger quantity of sensory input than person B over a given period of time. Since consciousness is partially related to your sensory input, is it possible to say that person A is more conscious than person B? Additionally, can you then say that person A was "more alive" or "lived more" than person B? And would this then imply that person A, being more consciously present in each passing second than B, was able to experience more time?

No, they just processed more information over the same period of time.

If I went to a rap concert, I would be miserable and an hour could seem like a lifetime, every detail would grate on my nerves. A person that enjoyed rap may have that same hour seem like 15 minutes because he is enjoying every detail. So, how you react to an identical amount of information can alter how you "perceive" time.

Also, you could say that a person that was calm, relaxed, and led an uneventful life but was happy was more "alive" and "lived more" than a person that was constantly cramming their mind with details, and was stressed and nervous and unhappy.

 

[loseyourname]

I appreciate your concern, but I've found that the mind-shattering perspective gained through these experiences outweighs the documented risks associated with occasional use. It's right up there with birth and death.

Oblivion, there is no way you remember your birth and I will go out on a limb and guess that you haven't died yet. How can you say this experience of yours is similar to birth and death? I've had some experiences with LSD in particular and didn't find it all that mind-blowing. It just made bands like the Allman Brothers and Primal Scream that much better. Then again, spatial distortion was far more pronounced than temporal distortion during these experiences for me. The biggest change, really, was that I seemingly had the ability to perceive input that is normally processed by one sense (such as sound waves) with all of my senses. It was like I could taste and smell and see the music. Great feeling, but still not all that profound.

 

[juvenal]

I would say that just because your own personal experiences with drugs were not particularly illuminating does not mean that someone else might not find deeper meaning in their use.

At the very least, like loseyourname describes, some drugs can enhance your enjoyment and understanding of music, especially since a good deal of music has been created under the influence.

I do think that psychedelic mushrooms ingested in the right place at the right time (typically somewhere isolated outdoors) can give one a deeper connection with nature. Not everyone, but someone in the right mindset to begin with.

And there have been ancecdotal accounts of the emotional healing effects of using ecstasy. Which may not be convincing to some, being anecdotal and all.

I do agree that the experience gained through occasional use can be well worth the health risk. Or even trying it once in your lifetime.

There was an interesting article in the New Yorker last year (non-drug-related) about how perception of time can change. I can't remember who wrote it. Maybe Oliver Sacks?

 

[Oblivion]

Sure I remember my own birth. Kept the umbilical cord for days when I get nostalgic.The point was that several of the times I've used have been awesome in their ability to change the way I see things. I've taken very high doses on rare occasions to achieve the viewpoint I'm talking about. The effects obviously vary on an individual basis. The point of the post was to see if there were any other thoughts out there regarding the relationship between consciousness, psychedelic influence, and time.

 

[Kerrie]

Hello Kerrie. You know, if you tell me you time traveled, I'll disagree with you simply because I don't believe in time travel and if you tell me that while you're on an acid trip, then . . . I'll feel I understand why you said that, feel symapthy for you, and then disagree with you. Also, I think you'll agree with me on the schizophrenia part.

Like I said before, someone's experience and perspective are truly an individual one, your experiences/beliefs/perspectives/beliefs are unique. I can see why one would be skeptical, but the experience Oblivion is sharing is his/hers to reflect upon only.

 

[Burnsys]

One thing I am still curious about is the aspect of accelerating the amount of sensory information you assimilate and how this would relate to your conscious perception of time passage. For example, take two people A and B who live the exact same lifespan. Person A however has a brain that is capable of processing a larger quantity of sensory input than person B over a given period of time. Since consciousness is partially related to your sensory input, is it possible to say that person A is more conscious than person B? Additionally, can you then say that person A was "more alive" or "lived more" than person B? And would this then imply that person A, being more consciously present in each passing second than B, was able to experience more time?

I think the same way.. supose you watch a movie at 60 frames per seccond instead of 30 fps... and you are able to see and process all those 60 frames per seccond... the movie would last double time in your counciousnes.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I find the subject of time distortion fascinating.

My information about it comes not from drug experiences, but from distortions in time reported by people experiencing simple-partial seizures. These are small, localized seizures that cause no defect in consciousness. They can take place anywhere in the brain. The symptoms vary dramatically from person to person, depending on where the focal seizure takes place in the brain.

A common simple partial seizure is the flashback. A scene from the person's past reappears before their eyes in vivid detail. Some people with this type of seizure automatically think of it as "time travel".

Flashbacks range in quality from poor, where the past scene is "see through," a visual image superimposed on the actual present visual field around them, to full blown sensory recreation of the past situation where the person is convinced they are now relocated physically back in a situation from their past. Not just sight, but taste, touch, smell, and hearing are satisfied.

The other simple-partial in which time is distorted is of a very different nature and must be taking place in a whole different circuit of the brain. This is when the person sees the world around them suddenly speed up: people start zipping around like a film in fast motion.

This latter type suggests to me that some part of the brain is, indeed, dedicated to regulating our sense of the passage of time. There seems to be a specific frequency to consciousness. We do, in fact, seem to percieve things by taking evenly spaced "samples" and assembling them into a smooth flow in our mind, just the way film and video does.

This frequency may be around 40 cps, because this is the frequency at which the cells of the human thalamus pulse. (The thalamus is vital to consciousness.) A slowing of the pulses of the cells of the thalamus may be what causes these "speeded up" time distortions. If you take 12 frames of film per second and show it at 24 frames per second, the film looks speeded up. The brain may assume that all "frames" are spaced 1/40 of a second apart, even when they're not.

 

[Gokul43201]

On the first of these occasions the effects of the drug lasted around 14 hours. However, during these 14 hours I experienced a passage of time that I believed to be roughly a two year period.

I do not understand this part. Do you recall experiences that fill a two year period (eg : watching 700 sunsets), or does the period just "feel" like it lasted two years ?

 

[PIT2]

Here are some descriptions of time as it was experienced during near-death-experiences:

From the onset of this rather superconscious state of the darkness of the tunnel, there was something that was totally missing, and that was what we call time. There’s no such thing as time in heaven! As I thought of and formulated a desire or a question, it would already have been recognized, acknowledged, and therefore answered. And the dialogue that took place, took place in no time. It didn’t require a fifteen-minute duration in time; it simply happened. (Thomas Sawyer)

Time did not make any sense. Time did not seem to apply. It seemed irrelevant. It was unattached to anything, the way I was. Time is only relevant when it is relative to the normal orderly sequential aspects of life. So I was there for a moment or for eternity. I cannot say but it felt like a very long time to me. (Grace Bubulka)

When you die, the fixed measurement of Earth time becomes soft and flexible. It stretches and shrinks like a rubber band. Entering the spirit realm feels like you were there just a few moments ago. Your time on Earth seems like only a brief instance. You can examine the events of your past with great clarity and detail than you ever could in life. You can linger in your past for what seems like hours. When you are done, it seems like no time at all went by. Time can contract and centuries can condense into seconds. Millenniums can shrink into moments and the entire history of civilization can pass by in the blink of an eye. Time and space is no obstacle. You can go in and out of worlds and stay there for as long as you desire. You feel eternal once again. There is no way to tell whether minutes, hours or years go by. Existence is the only reality and it is inseparable from the eternal now. (John Star)

Time can be contracted. Centuries can condense into seconds. Millenniums can shrink into moments. An entire civilization can pass by in the blink of an eye. Returning to the spirit realm feels as though though the time you spent in the physical realm was only a few moments. You feel totally alive again - an aliveness that is eternal. Be-ing is the only reality. Be-ing which is inseparable from the moment, inseparable from the eternal NOW, inseparable from the life that is in all other beings. Time and space is no longer an obstacle. Time as we know it comes to a halt; past, present, and future is somehow fused together in the timeless unity of life. You can be anywhere instantly. You can live without a body as pure consciousness in the minds of Jesus and his disciples. You can hear their conversations, eat their food, and drink their wine. You can explore any era you desire." (Dr. George Rodonaia)

The light replied, "Let us go back in time, as far back as possible, and tell me how far back we should go". I was thinking for some time. Eventually I blurted out, "Stone Age?" I did not have much time to think about all this, because, all of a sudden, I saw human beings back on Earth. I was looking down on a group of people, men and women, who were dressed in furs, sitting around a campfire. (Guenter Wagner)

 

[zoobyshoe]

Those descriptions remind me of Emanuel Swedenborgs reports of his conversations with angels, who, he said, had no concept of time whatever. Mention of something having occurred at a different time than the present simply confused them, he said.

 

[Overdose]

The last time i did shrooms, i started to feel very reptilian at one point,emotionally cold, slithery, extact, and acutely aware (like i was ready to strike out at any possible prey).
Im not sure if this was the brain 'remembering' its reptilian heritage or some kind of reaching out into the collective consciousness. I am open to both ideas really.

 

[rygar]

Injestion of hallacinogens leads to schizophrenia. It's documented. Take care.

documented where? please post reliable sources.

personally, i don't see much point to it. first of all, no matter what your perception of time, you can only accomplish a finite amount within that time frame. ie, whether it feels like a minute or an hour won't make a difference in productivity.

furthermore, it wouldn't really be practical to have a different perception of time than everyone else in the world. consistency helps us function from day to day. unless everyone in the world was on this drug, a lot of apparent discrepancies would arise from person to person.

lastly, our brain is biologically programmed for the perception of time in a certain manner. i don't think it would be practical to adjust that perception while keeping all other aspects of our cognitive functions the same. not to mention it certainly would take it's toll on your brain, as most drugs do.

 

[zoobyshoe]

documented where? please post reliable sources.

This site has mention of studies, and the LSD/schizophrenia connection:


LSD
Address:http://www.coolnurse.com/lsd.htm

"However, drug studies have confirmed that the powerful hallucinogenic effects of this drug can produce profound adverse reactions, such as acute panic reactions, psychotic crises, and flashbacks."

"Do not expect to do anything other than just that when using it. A user will be surprised at how difficult and confusing using a phone or dealing with authority is. Do not drive or operate any sort of machinery. It is a good idea to have at least one sober "babysitter" or designated sober person there to take care of a user just in case. People with histories of psychoses such as schizophrenia in the family should avoid using LSD, as it can bring out latent tendencies towards schizophrenia. (We are not suggesting that you use LSD, but informing you on how it could be used more safely). Continuous use of LSD can trigger mental and social problems as a result of difficulty facing reality.
Flashbacks can occur for years after someone has quit using LSD."

 

[rygar]

This site has mention of studies, and the LSD/schizophrenia connection:


LSD
Address:http://www.coolnurse.com/lsd.htm

"However, drug studies have confirmed that the powerful hallucinogenic effects of this drug can produce profound adverse reactions, such as acute panic reactions, psychotic crises, and flashbacks."

"Do not expect to do anything other than just that when using it. A user will be surprised at how difficult and confusing using a phone or dealing with authority is. Do not drive or operate any sort of machinery. It is a good idea to have at least one sober "babysitter" or designated sober person there to take care of a user just in case. People with histories of psychoses such as schizophrenia in the family should avoid using LSD, as it can bring out latent tendencies towards schizophrenia. (We are not suggesting that you use LSD, but informing you on how it could be used more safely). Continuous use of LSD can trigger mental and social problems as a result of difficulty facing reality.
Flashbacks can occur for years after someone has quit using LSD."

wait, so where in any of that does it say injestion of LSD leads to schizophrenia? all it says is that people who have a family history of schizophrenia shouldn't take LSD.

LSD affects seretonin, schizophrenia is the result of dopamine (too many dopamine receptors or a lesion, both in the frontal cortex).

the symptoms may be similar, and maybe that can bring forward latent symptoms... but it would only happen in someone who already has the physiological makeup of schizophrenia. I'm not going to read into what was said, but if anyone meant to imply that a "normal" person could develop schizophrenia from taking LSD, i think that's absurd.

and not to nitpick, but i was looking for something more in the form of a peer-reviewed medical journal... "coolnurse.com" doesn't really have outstanding credentials...

...that's just my opinion though.

 

[zoobyshoe]

wait, so where in any of that does it say injestion of LSD leads to schizophrenia?

I didn't say it did. I said it explains the LSD/schizophrenia connection. In other words, why they are probably connected in some peoples minds.

the symptoms may be similar, and maybe that can bring forward latent symptoms... but it would only happen in someone who already has the physiological makeup of schizophrenia.

This is the LSD/Schizophrenia connection.

(But, I know what you mean. I wasn't very clear about what I meant by posting it.)

 

[rygar]

zooby: sorry, i was more referring to

Injestion of hallacinogens leads to schizophrenia. It's documented.

though i still think the connection is ambiguous at best. schizophrenia-like symptoms, maybe, but schizophrenia?

 

[zoobyshoe]

though i still think the connection is ambiguous at best. schizophrenia-like symptoms, maybe, but schizophrenia?

From a psychiatrist's point of view the distinction may be of some importance. From the point of view of the person suffering, what's the difference? I think saltydog's warning was aimed at those who might potentially become the latter. Right idea, wrong terminology.