More Americans accept theory of creationism than evolution

In summary: Please, just enjoy the story for what it is and don't try and make it into a history book or science book. In summary, the conversation discusses the results of a Gallup poll showing that the majority of Republicans in the United States do not believe in the theory of evolution. The conversation also explores possible reasons for this trend, including an educational problem and the influence of the church in isolated communities. It is compared to results in other countries, where the acceptance of evolution is higher. The conversation also mentions the rise of creationism, especially influenced by American fundamentalist churches, and the difference between the concept of creation and literal interpretation of the Bible. One participant expresses concern about people thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong, while another
  • #1
EL
Science Advisor
558
0
This is scary:
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=27847 [Broken]

The majority of Republicans in the United States do not believe the theory of evolution is true and do not believe that humans evolved over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. This suggests that when three Republican presidential candidates at a May debate stated they did not believe in evolution, they were generally in sync with the bulk of the rank-and-file Republicans whose nomination they are seeking to obtain.

Two recent Republican debates have included questions to the candidates about evolution. Three candidates -- Sam Brownback, Mike Huckabee, and Tom Tancredo -- indicated in response to a question during the May 3 debate that they did not believe in the theory of evolution, although they have attempted to clarify their positions in the weeks since.

24% of Americans believe that both the theory of evolution and the theory of creationism are probably or definitely true
41% believe that creationism is true, and that evolution is false
28% believe that evolution is true, but that creationism is false
3% either believe that both are false or have no opinion about at least one of the theories

What do you think, is this mainly an educational problem?
Is it a world wide trend, or just a local flaw in US?
(It would be nice to compare with results for other countries, but I havn't found any good such polls.)
 
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  • #2
Because America is on average more religious than, say, Europe.
 
  • #3
Possible reason... ?

Communities in the US are more isolated than those in, say, Europe, making it easier for people to form a single believe and for that to take over the whole community; ie. without an outsider coming in and offering an alternative view.

Is it easier for the church in the US to push their believes on these isolated communities?

Here, I say isolated due to the large distances between individual towns, distance from my forward-thinking, large cities.

Same goes for how Bush got in :shrugs:
 
  • #4
I have seen the argument against evolution (else where) the pro evolutionists
may present pages of evidence, the anti evolutionists answer with one line
that has no scientific content.
It seems these people just want to have their own way no matter what.
 
  • #5
J77 said:
Communities in the US are more isolated than those in, say, Europe, making it easier for people to form a single believe and for that to take over the whole community; ie. without an outsider coming in and offering an alternative view.

Is it easier for the church in the US to push their believes on these isolated communities?

Here, I say isolated due to the large distances between individual towns, distance from my forward-thinking, large cities.

Same goes for how Bush got in :shrugs:


THis is unlikely... it's a region-wide phenomenon, not a town-specific one. Otherwise you'd see different ideas cropping up all over the place.

In fact, it's more the opposite. If you grow up in Kentucky, everyone goes to church, everyone knows god created the Earth in six days, so it's a fact. If somebody right now presented compellingscientific evidence that the Earth was flat and the sun rotated around it, you'd probably blow them off, or at the least be incredibly skeptical
 
  • #6
EL said:
This is scary:

What do you think, is this mainly an educational problem?
Is it a world wide trend, or just a local flaw in US?
(It would be nice to compare with results for other countries, but I havn't found any good such polls.)

Here is a nice chart of a survey presented by national geographic comparing the acceptance of evolution theory in different countries. The chart is a little less in depth tha the gallup poll but its gives an illustration of the broad trends between countries.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html
 
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  • #7
They like to walk backwards in the US.
 
  • #8
Kurdt said:
Here is a nice chart of a survey conducted by national geographic comparing the acceptance of evolution theory in different countries.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html

It's kind of sad too because it feels like the US is going around trying to get countries to follow their views.
 
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  • #9
Indeed. Creationism was a very minor phenomenon in Britain about forty years ago, even amongst the Evangelical churches, but now it is becoming more and more widespread, even amongst Christian university students, because of the influence of the American fundamentalist churches.

There is a difference between the concept of 'creation' that lies at the heart of at least the three major monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and Creationism as now known in the USA and elsewhere.

The concept of creation can sit together with scientific theory, it simply adds the interpretation of faith that says "God did it" to the story of cosmology and evolutionary biology.

Creationism, on the other hand, chooses to interpret literally the opening chapters of Genesis (even when they are mutually contradictory when taken literally) as a 'six-day wonder' and then chooses not to interpret literally the verses that say the Earth is fixed and cannot be moved (Psalm 93:1, Psalm 104:5) and those that assume the world is flat (Psalm 19). The people of that time were living in the Late Bronze Age over three thousand years ago, their cosmology reflects that fact, it could not do otherwise.Garth
 
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  • #10
What is scary is that people think they know what the truth is, they are right and everyone else is wrong. I think that many people believe in some kind of higher intelligence, not that that implies a belief in the Bible. Trying to convince people that a red hot ball of lava (early Earth) just turned itself into people, on its own, it not easy, no matter how many small steps you describe it as. You claim people are "uneducated" because they have their own beliefs that do not match yours? That is the scary part...
 
  • #11
We're not talking about a belief in a supreme being, we're talking about taking parts of the bible literally.

Like Adam and Eve, they had two sons, one son killed the other, so the three of them were the only humans on the planet, so you know what had to go on for them to "be fruitful and multiply", however the bible fails to recognize that part. :rolleyes:
 
  • #12
IMP said:
What is scary is that people think they know what the truth is, they are right and everyone else is wrong. I think that many people believe in some kind of higher intelligence, not that that implies a belief in the Bible. Trying to convince people that a red hot ball of lava (early Earth) just turned itself into people, on its own, it not easy, no matter how many small steps you describe it as. You claim people are "uneducated" because they have their own beliefs that do not match yours? That is the scary part...

I think many people have such a reaction to creationism because many proponents of creationism are trying to tell everyone that its science when it isn't. Even further many scientists are disappointed at the lack of trust in science by the general public when they'd rather believe some unsupported story over a theory that links a series of observable facts.
 
  • #13
IMP said:
What is scary is that people think they know what the truth is, they are right and everyone else is wrong. I think that many people believe in some kind of higher intelligence, not that that implies a belief in the Bible. Trying to convince people that a red hot ball of lava (early Earth) just turned itself into people, on its own, it not easy, no matter how many small steps you describe it as. You claim people are "uneducated" because they have their own beliefs that do not match yours? That is the scary part...
Uneducated because they don't understand the concept and the evidence that it is based on. You're right that it is not an easy thing to accept (without proper treatment in a school science class), but you imply that that somehow makes the idea inferior to the super-simplistic American view of creationism. That's just rediculous. It also implies that the average American can only comprehend ideas in single-sentence soundbytes. And some of these ideas that are shown in the poll are both spectacularly simplistic and thoughtless ("God did it") and simply, straightforwardly, utterly wrong. The fact is that many Americans are simply choosing not to apply thought to this issue, and it really is a straightforward issue. That is what is scary to me.

Others are right that this is, for the most part, a uniquely American phenomena. It is a single, specific, and high profile issue, so it can't be taken as a benchmark of overall scientific knowledge, but what it may say is that Americans are looking for an easy answer or are impressionable and succeptible to high-pressure marketing.

Anyway, how many times are we going to have this exact discussion?
 
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  • #14
The US has been a deeply religious nation since its onset. The Europeans chased the religious whackos out of Europe from the 16th-19th centuries. They largely came to what became the US, which is still plagued with their intolerant and nonscientific views.
 
  • #15
People have believed in "creationism" for thousands of years. It's not a big deal. It doesn't matter what people believe in, they are going to try to influence others of what they believe. It's human nature. There is nothing "scary" going on. Why would it matter any more today than it did 100yrs ago? The sciences have not been adversely impacted. I get a kick out of people acting as if there is some sort of epidemic. LOL

What is scary is people expecting that a government should censor what one can and cannot believe.
 
  • #16
According to the bible, Adam had another named son, Seth, and other unnamed sons and daughters. This is found in Genesis, chapter 5, verses 3 and 4. Chapter 6, verse 4 indicates that there were opportunities for propagation without incest. The problem aluded to arises in chapter 7 verse 23 and chapter 9 verse 1. According to these, the incest occurred among the descendent of Noah. According to the theory of evolution, this incest occurred before humans walked.

I know my opinions on the subject of this thread are violently rejected here. I think that rather than butt heads with the religious community over this issue, we should be content to teach the scientific method and let people believe what they want. My belief is that if we could get more people to understand the scientific method, we will have the best victory we could ever have hoped to achieve.
 
  • #17
Many religious people are taught that evolution is voodoo and evil. I forgot what I said, but in response my seemingly normal friend replied "You don't ACTUALLY believe in evolution do you?", in an angry tone.

I believe that it's not entirely an educational problem, because no amount of education now will sway them...
 
  • #18
I've been a theistic evolutionist since about the 4th grade [in a Catholic school]. We were taught both creationism and evolution without apologies or equivocation because they are not mutually exclusive. The Catholics also have a Pope Scope - an observatory run by a priest. Science was a big part of my Catholic education.

There is a huge difference between mainstream religion and fundamentalism just as there is a huge difference between Islam and radical Islam. But it does seem that many Americans have been radicalized - hence our current President.
 
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  • #19
moose said:
Many religious people are taught that evolution is voodoo and evil. I forgot what I said, but in response my seemingly normal friend replied "You don't ACTUALLY believe in evolution do you?", in an angry tone.

I believe that it's not entirely an educational problem, because no amount of education now will sway them...

I would go as far to say that it's not a "problem" at all. I fail to see why people think it is. The job of public schools is to provide the information. It's up to the student to apply it. Once the theory of evolution is taught, a person can believe it or not believe it. Noone gets hurt, no one dies. Nothing of any real significance happens as a result. It's a non-issue.
 
  • #20
drankin said:
I would go as far to say that it's not a "problem" at all. I fail to see why people think it is. The job of public schools is to provide the information. It's up to the student to apply it. Once the theory of evolution is taught, a person can believe it or not believe it. Noone gets hurt, no one dies. Nothing of any real significance happens as a result. It's a non-issue.
The problem is that the "creationists" aren't happy to keep their beliefs to themselves and are trying to get the teaching of evolution removed from schools and books and/or teach creationism as an alternate science course, which of course is ridiculous. It is because these people are trying to remove scientific knowledge from Americans and replace it with the Bible that they are very scary.

Like Ivan, being raised catholic, very little importance was put on the bible. I had my catechism book and my missal for mass.
 
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  • #21
russ_watters said:
Uneducated because they don't understand the concept and the evidence that it is based on. You're right that it is not an easy thing to accept (without proper treatment in a school science class), but you imply that that somehow makes the idea inferior to the super-simplistic American view of creationism. That's just rediculous. It also implies that the average American can only comprehend ideas in single-sentence soundbytes. And some of these ideas that are shown in the poll are both spectacularly simplistic and thoughtless ("God did it") and simply, straightforwardly, utterly wrong. The fact is that many Americans are simply choosing not to apply thought to this issue, and it really is a straightforward issue. That is what is scary to me.

Others are right that this is, for the most part, a uniquely American phenomena. It is a single, specific, and high profile issue, so it can't be taken as a benchmark of overall scientific knowledge, but what it may say is that Americans are looking for an easy answer or are impressionable and succeptible to high-pressure marketing.

Anyway, how many times are we going to have this exact discussion?
Do you know why most educated Europeans are rather critical to the US?
Answer:
US politicians make us cringe by their stupid one-liners and slogans like "The Evil Empire, The Axis of Evil" and other nonsensical, and therefor politically and morally dangerous statements.

Now, do you see a connection between the deep-seated, silly religiosity of the average American and these idiotic presidential declarations?
 
  • #22
Evo said:
The problem is that the "creationists" aren't happy to keep their beliefs to themselves and are trying to get the teaching of evolution removed from schools and books and/or teach creationism as an alternate science course, which of course is ridiculous. It is because these people are trying to remove scientific knowledge from Americans and replace it with the Bible that they are very scary.

Some might be trying to get it removed entirely but I haven't seen this myself. I've seen the effort to get it taught as a theory as well as evolution. The bible will never replace "scientific knowledge". That's kind of silly to even consider a possibility. "Let us continue our study of jet propulsion in the book of Jeremiah". :rofl:

Humans can't keep their beliefs to themselves, whether they are athiest, religious, homosexual, heterosexual...
That's where the idea of toleration should be taken literally.
 
  • #23
arildno said:
Do you know why most educated Europeans are rather critical to the US?
Answer:
US politicians make us cringe by their stupid one-liners and slogans like "The Evil Empire, The Axis of Evil" and other nonsensical, and therefor politically and morally dangerous statements.

Now, do you see a connection between the deep-seated, silly religiosity of the average American and these idiotic presidential declarations?

There have been times in history that the President would say a prayer (to the Christian God) for soldiers going into battle during WWII. Was it strange then? No, the whole nation would pray with him. That wasn't all that long ago.

Did we call are enemies evil back then? Yes. How do you go to war with an enemy and kill them unless you thought otherwise?
 
  • #24
Go on believe in those silly demonizations and revenge fantasies.

You are not in a position to make the same mess of it as American presidents are won't to do. Fortunately.
 
  • #25
I believe that many Americans are unable to open their minds to new ideas. I don't have a problem with their beliefs. I just don't want them influencing our national policies.
 
  • #26
drankin said:
I would go as far to say that it's not a "problem" at all. I fail to see why people think it is. The job of public schools is to provide the information. It's up to the student to apply it. Once the theory of evolution is taught, a person can believe it or not believe it. Noone gets hurt, no one dies. Nothing of any real significance happens as a result. It's a non-issue.
If it is indicative of a larger problem of lack of general scientific knowledge/understanding, then the whole country gets hurt as a result.
 
  • #27
russ_watters said:
If it is indicative of a larger problem of lack of general scientific knowledge/understanding, then the whole country gets hurt as a result.

Religious beliefs are not indicative of a larger problem concerning a lack of general scientific knowledge/understanding in the US. That statement is simply a bias.
 
  • #28
When I was a teenager, I was friends with a younger boy who lived down the street and looked up to me like a big brother. This little boy went to a very strict religion-based seventh-day adventist "academy" comprised of a whopping 40 students in twelve grades. Just to give you a little perspective, he viewed going to the mall as an extravagant "field trip," and was almost dumb-founded by the presence of black people there. His hometown was 40% African-American, yet he had never actually seen a black person until he was a pre-teen.

One day I come walking down his street, and he stops me short with the question "Hey Warren, do you believe in evolution?". I paused for a long moment, trying to choose my words carefully. I finally said "of all the explanations available, I think evolution is the best."

"Really?" he said, "so who in your family is a monkey?"

The poor kid couldn't multiply two-digit numbers until he was 12. (I taught him how.) He was fascinated by my books on space shuttles and other planets, and I brought them over whenever I could. He asked his parents for books like those, but they wouldn't buy him any.

Because of his poor performance in his "academy," his parents decided to home-school him for remainder of his childhood. He explained that he spent approximately four hours a day on the Bible, and a few left-over minutes here and there on other subjects like math and history. He also explained that when he didn't do well on his tests, his mom helped him. (Translation: his parents doctored his home-school exams to make sure the state didn't declare them incompetent and put him in public school.)

He works at Chic-Fil-A now, serving chicken sandwiches.

Now, this is of course just one data point: an anecdote. At the same time, I believe it illustrates very nicely what happens when parents almost literally exclude their children from an education of the real world. This is what many evangelical Christians would truly like to see: children educated solely from the Bible, at the expense of every other subject. The science classroom and the "debate" about the theory of evolution are nothing more than footholds in their larger attempt to achieve it.

- Warren
 
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  • #29
I wonder whether the American style of biblical Christianity might have come out of the westward expansion, when anyone with a bible might be a "preacher" and the established churches were not widely "established".

Other than that, I can only say that religious dogma is resistant to education. Modern particle physics shows that the world is probabalistic, not determanistic. That doesn't make Islam give up its dependence on fate. Modern biology explains evolution so well that denial of it is irrational. That doesn't deter bible literalists. The old testament forbids the cutting of the beard, which is why fundamentalist Jews and Muslims don't cut theirs. But fundamentalist Christians do.

Religion is a phenomenon of group psychology. It's impervious to logic. You can see the illogical nature of someone else's religion but not your own, and yet you're quite sane, intelligent, and rational in other respects. The whole subject deserves more study.
 
  • #30
Well, evolution can be defined as the change in allele frequency over time. Demonstrating evolution requires nothing more than some fruit flies and a little patience. Microevolution is as real as sunlight, and it would be equally irrational to deny the existence of either. We've yet to demonstrate speciation (macroevolution) in a controlled experiment, but it's just a matter of time, in my opinion.

- Warren
 
  • #31
chroot said:
When I was a teenager, I was friends with a younger boy who lived down the street and looked up to me like a big brother. This little boy went to a very strict religion-based seventh-day adventist "academy" comprised of a whopping 40 students in twelve grades. Just to give you a little perspective, he viewed going to the mall as an extravagant "field trip," and was almost dumb-founded by the presence of black people there. His hometown was 40% African-American, yet he had never actually seen a black person until he was a pre-teen.

One day I come walking down his street, and he stops me short with the question "Hey Warren, do you believe in evolution?". I paused for a long moment, trying to choose my words carefully. I finally said "of all the explanations available, I think evolution is the best."

"Really?" he said, "so who in your family is a monkey?"



The poor kid couldn't multiply two-digit numbers until he was 12. (I taught him how.) He was fascinated by my books on space shuttles and other planets, and I brougt them over whenever I could. He asked his parents for books like those, but they wouldn't buy him any.

Because of his poor performance in his "academy," his parents decided to home-school him for remainder of his childhood. He explained that he spent approximately four hours a day on the Bible, and a few left-over minutes here and there on other subjects like math and history. He also explained that when he didn't do well on his tests, his mom helped him. (Translation: his parents doctored his home-school exams to make sure the state didn't declare them incompetent and put him in public school.)

He works at Chic-Fil-A now, serving chicken sandwiches.

Now, this is of course just one data point: an anecdote. At the same time, I believe it illustrates very nicely what happens when parents almost literally exclude their children from an education of the real world. This is what many evangelical Christians would truly like to see: children educated solely from the Bible, at the expense of every other subject. The science classroom and the "debate" about the theory of evolution are nothing more than footholds in their larger attempt to achieve it.

- Warren

I'll give you a couple of other examples.

My friend has five children, all girls (ugh!). His wife home schools them all. Their 17 yr old daughter just got a full ride scholarship to Harvard, among a few other universities she had applied to. She chose Harvard.

My cousin has six children that she homeschools, her oldest started college to study some discipline of engineering at 16 yrs old.

Some parents can home school and some aren't so great. Some public schools are good and some are not.

*edit* Oh, and both of those households are "Christian" based.
 
  • #32
drankin said:
My friend has five children, all girls (ugh!). His wife home schools them all. Their 17 yr old daughter just got a full ride scholarship to Harvard, among a few other universities she had applied to. She chose Harvard.

I think you missed my point entirely. What I wrote was not a tirade against home-schooling -- you are indeed correct that many parents are capable of educating their children more successfully than professional educators.

Instead, my point is that parents who actively limit a child's access to genuine educational experiences in favor of religious propaganda raise kids who can't do anything beyond serving fast food. Many well-meaning evangelical parents think they're raising good Christian children, when in fact they're really just raising morons.

- Warren
 
  • #33
chroot said:
Many well-meaning evangelical parents think they're raising good Christian children, when in fact they're really just raising morons.

- Warren
:rofl: Very succinct! :rofl:
 
  • #34
Kurdt said:
Here is a nice chart of a survey presented by national geographic comparing the acceptance of evolution theory in different countries. The chart is a little less in depth tha the gallup poll but its gives an illustration of the broad trends between countries.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html
Thanks, this is what I was looking for. It seems like this is a typical american phenomenon, and maybe its not fair to compare US to European countries due too their different histories. It would have been interesting to see the scores of Canada, which past is a bit closer to that of the US.


IMP said:
What is scary is that people think they know what the truth is, they are right and everyone else is wrong. I think that many people believe in some kind of higher intelligence, not that that implies a belief in the Bible. Trying to convince people that a red hot ball of lava (early Earth) just turned itself into people, on its own, it not easy, no matter how many small steps you describe it as. You claim people are "uneducated" because they have their own beliefs that do not match yours? That is the scary part...
Evolution is not a matter of belief. Evolution is a well established scientific theory (that is: not "just a theory"), based on numerous after numerous of scientific facts. Denying evolution has simply no more to do with religous belief than claiming the Earth is flat.


drankin said:
People have believed in "creationism" for thousands of years. It's not a big deal. It doesn't matter what people believe in, they are going to try to influence others of what they believe. It's human nature. There is nothing "scary" going on. Why would it matter any more today than it did 100yrs ago? The sciences have not been adversely impacted. I get a kick out of people acting as if there is some sort of epidemic. LOL

What is scary is people expecting that a government should censor what one can and cannot believe.

I do not agree with you here. "Believing" in unrational ideas is a big problem, not only just now, but also has been during the history. It simply did matter 100 years ago too. (Although I think it matters even more know due to the development in warfare.) Just because it has always used to be this way doesn't make it less problematic. As long as the unrational ideas only are followed by a minor part of the population it's true that it's not really a big problem. The problem really arises when the ideas are spread to the men in power, whos decisions affect a huge number of people. Too see the effects of unrational leaders just look at Germany in the 30th-40th, or Iran today...and there are plenty of more examples.
Btw, who are saying they think the government should censor what people can believe in?


jimmysnyder said:
I know my opinions on the subject of this thread are violently rejected here. I think that rather than butt heads with the religious community over this issue, we should be content to teach the scientific method and let people believe what they want. My belief is that if we could get more people to understand the scientific method, we will have the best victory we could ever have hoped to achieve.

I second that. I do think most people are capable of making rational choices. The hard thing is to make sure everyone has enough information to have a fair chance of doing so, and this requires hard work from the scientific community.
 
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  • #35
chroot said:
I think you missed my point entirely. What I wrote was not a tirade against home-schooling -- you are indeed correct that many parents are capable of educating their children more successfully than professional educators.

Instead, my point is that parents who actively limit a child's access to genuine educational experiences in favor of religious propaganda raise kids who can't do anything beyond serving fast food. Many well-meaning evangelical parents think they're raising good Christian children, when in fact they're really just raising morons.

- Warren

I have no doubt that happens, it just hasn't been my personal experience. I hope you weren't referring to your friend as one of those morons.

To be fair, you have to admit that you have met plenty of morons that went through the public school system. And even a few that are college grads. :wink:
 
<h2>1. What is creationism?</h2><p>Creationism is the belief that the universe and all living things were created by a divine being or higher power, as described in religious texts such as the Bible.</p><h2>2. What is evolution?</h2><p>Evolution is the scientific theory that explains how species change and adapt over time through natural selection, genetic variation, and other mechanisms.</p><h2>3. How do these two theories differ?</h2><p>Creationism is based on religious beliefs and is not supported by scientific evidence, while evolution is supported by a vast amount of scientific evidence and is widely accepted by the scientific community.</p><h2>4. Why do more Americans accept creationism over evolution?</h2><p>There are a variety of reasons why some Americans may accept creationism over evolution, such as personal religious beliefs, lack of understanding of the scientific evidence for evolution, or cultural and societal influences.</p><h2>5. Is it possible to believe in both creationism and evolution?</h2><p>Some individuals may hold the belief that a higher power guided the process of evolution, while others may see the two theories as completely separate and not compatible with each other. Ultimately, it is a personal belief and interpretation.</p>

1. What is creationism?

Creationism is the belief that the universe and all living things were created by a divine being or higher power, as described in religious texts such as the Bible.

2. What is evolution?

Evolution is the scientific theory that explains how species change and adapt over time through natural selection, genetic variation, and other mechanisms.

3. How do these two theories differ?

Creationism is based on religious beliefs and is not supported by scientific evidence, while evolution is supported by a vast amount of scientific evidence and is widely accepted by the scientific community.

4. Why do more Americans accept creationism over evolution?

There are a variety of reasons why some Americans may accept creationism over evolution, such as personal religious beliefs, lack of understanding of the scientific evidence for evolution, or cultural and societal influences.

5. Is it possible to believe in both creationism and evolution?

Some individuals may hold the belief that a higher power guided the process of evolution, while others may see the two theories as completely separate and not compatible with each other. Ultimately, it is a personal belief and interpretation.

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