Is Gun Ownership Linked to Higher Rates of Violence?

[rolerbe]

And that was my point. More fearful people are more likely to own guns, because they are afraid of themselves or members of their family/social group being victimized. More fearful people also tend to be more violent

It really disturbs and scares me that otherwise purportedly scientifically minded people (as evidenced by their coming to this site at all) are so willing to go down really long unsupported inferential chains (such as this one) to reach 'conclusions' that may be miles and miles off the mark.

 

[vociferous]

It really disturbs and scares me that otherwise purportedly scientifically minded people (as evidenced by their coming to this site at all) are so willing to go down really long unsupported inferential chains (such as this one) to reach 'conclusions' that may be miles and miles off the mark.

Clearly it is only a hypothesis, based on the data that is available. If someone has good data to support or refute it, I would like to see it.

The Academy of Science actually did a thorough review of all the gun studies in the United States (or perhaps it was just the ones that examined the correlation between crime and gun ownership) and found that none of them were really adequate to draw any conclusions from.

 

[drankin]

An ambiguous question gets and ambiguous answer. To say that legitemate gun owners are more or less violent would be disingenuous. There is no data to support either case. And I believe that is because there is little to no difference in violent tendencies to be measured.

But, if it makes those who do not like gun ownership feel better, in order to get a concealed carry permit (in those states that allow it) you cannot be a felon or have a police record showing any kind of domestic violence. And ex-cons/felons are not permitted to possesses a firearm ever, anywhere.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

And that was my point. More fearful people are more likely to own guns, because they are afraid of themselves or members of their family/social group being victimized. More fearful people also tend to be more violent.

This is not something novel, it goes back to these kind of evolved psychological traits.

Back in the caveman days, say a lone hunter spotted a stranger from another tribe. A more fearful hunter would be more likely to engage his "fight or flight" instinct and either try to kill the foreign tribesman, or run, or hide from him. This would help ensure his survival, but, on the other hand, it would make it difficult for nearby tribes to cooperate and could easily spark a feud.

A less fearful tribesman may greet the stranger, and for his lack of fear, be killed by the stranger. Or he may help initiate a mutually beneficial alliance between his tribe and theirs.

But, more fearful people do tend to advocate violence much more, and they are probably more likely to commit violent (though not necessarily illegal) acts.

Fight or flight is not a normal decision making response. A person does not have a fight or flight response when they peek through the bushes to see a stranger on the other side of the clearing. The response occurs when there is an immediate threat perceived. There is also no evidence I am aware of that fearful individuals will tend to choose the fight response over the flight response or that people who are not generally fearful will not have such a response at all. You are twisting this into something to fit your preconceptions.

Besides, simply because a person makes a fight response in a highly stressful situation does not make them a violent person in general. A violent person has a preference for violent behavior in any situation. Are rapists suffering from a fight or flight response? Are wife beaters having a fight or flight response? Bar brawlers? Child Abusers? Gang members? ect ect ect

 

[drankin]

Fight or flight is not a normal decision making response. A person does not have a fight or flight response when they peek through the bushes to see a stranger on the other side of the clearing. The response occurs when there is an immediate threat perceived. There is also no evidence I am aware of that fearful individuals will tend to choose the fight response over the flight response or that people who are not generally fearful will not have such a response at all. You are twisting this into something to fit your preconceptions.

Besides, simply because a person makes a fight response in a highly stressful situation does not make them a violent person in general. A violent person has a preference for violent behavior in any situation. Are rapists suffering from a fight or flight response? Are wife beaters having a fight or flight response? Bar brawlers? Child Abusers? Gang members? ect ect ect

Not to diminish your point but I learned something in a psyc class I found profoundly interesting. Often, wife beaters psychologically feel they are in a fight or flight situation. It's twisted, obviously, but it is common that they feel immasculated to a point that they will react in a way liken to self-defense. Trying to defend their identity. Of course it's no justification but if you ever wonder how someone can be so violent towards a physically weaker companion this is a common scenario for that type of person. Not trying to derail the thread, just jogged something I learned.

 

[vociferous]

Fight or flight is not a normal decision making response. A person does not have a fight or flight response when they peek through the bushes to see a stranger on the other side of the clearing. The response occurs when there is an immediate threat perceived. There is also no evidence I am aware of that fearful individuals will tend to choose the fight response over the flight response or that people who are not generally fearful will not have such a response at all. You are twisting this into something to fit your preconceptions.

Besides, simply because a person makes a fight response in a highly stressful situation does not make them a violent person in general. A violent person has a preference for violent behavior in any situation. Are rapists suffering from a fight or flight response? Are wife beaters having a fight or flight response? Bar brawlers? Child Abusers? Gang members? ect ect ect

Yes, which makes it important to consider what types of violence we are talking about.

Are we talking about criminal violence, where the individual committing the violence is clearly in the wrong, or are we talking about who is more likely to be capable of killing, in a legal or potentially legal fashion (in war, in self defense, as a state-sanctioned executioner, out of fear), or are we talking about someone who uses premeditated and calculated violence, such as a criminal or a terrorist?

 

[Pythagorean]

Do we really trust social statistics anyway?

All I can offer is anecdotal evidence:
I live in Alaska. Everyone I know owns a gun. None of us our violent.