Who was Nicola Tesla and Why is He a Forgotten Genius?

[Ivan Seeking]

Note also that the Tesla myths are not new.

In America, Tesla's fame paralleled that of any other inventor or scientist in history and in popular culture. His name became a byword for innovation and practical achievement. He was deemed a "magician" who conjured up technical feats. After his demonstration of wireless communication in 1893 and after being the victor in the "War of Currents", he was widely respected as America's greatest electrical engineer. Much of his early work pioneered modern electrical engineering and many of his discoveries were of groundbreaking importance. In his later years, Tesla was regarded as a mad scientist, and he ended his life impoverished and forgotten. [4][5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

not to mention stuff like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tesla_colorado_444px.jpg
and this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BrochureWardenclyffe_.PNG

So it's not really fair to peg this on crackpottery entirely. Tesla was a bit of a myth maker not only by design, but also as a consequence of his revolutionary work.

 

[ZapperZ]

Gents, original post is more or less answered. As for Bardeen, I don't know much about him, primarily since I don't have superconductors in my home(yet). Thanks for pointing him out though, as I might need some reading on superconductivity. Although he certanly is great as thousands of other people that have made contribution to what we have today, Tesla's inventions are surrounding us on every step, we could not miss them if we try.Comparative quantitization of ones contribution is hard if not impossible, even if we agree on what makes one a great scientist. I would not further engage in this discussion as it is pointless. Let's just conclude that in some point we agree to disagree and in some we do agree.

I think you have just proved my point. Bardeen may have won his second Nobel prize for the BCS theory of superconductivity, but his first Nobel prize was for the invention of the TRANSISTOR, along with Brittain and Shockley. And considering that this is in an Electrical Engineering forum, I don't think I need to explain anymore why this invention is as significant as any in terms of shaping the world that we see today.

I could have easily complained that Bardeen is a "forgotten" genius that most people, even "experts" in engineering and science are not aware of.

Zz.

 

[Pravoslavan]

Zapperz ... I agree with this :

http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt

Tesla was ignored by the US War Department when he told them had been working on some form of teleforce weapon, or death ray. But when he wound up dead in his apartment a few days later, they classified his documents Top Secret. (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Death_and_afterwards))

Tesla's critique in the announcement was the opening clash between him and modern experimental physics. Tesla may have viewed his principles in such a manner as to not be in conflict with other modern theories (besides Einstein's). Tesla's theory is ignored by some researchers (and mainly disregaurded by physicists).
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Nikola_Tesla

Tesla was clearly ahead of his time, a problem which would haunt his entire career. His inventions and patents for remote operation of robotic devices, for instance, were stunningly advanced but largely ignored at the time. The military inexplicably failed to understand the usefulness of remote-controlled attack vehicles and torpedoes until after Tesla's patents had expired. Even then, they began researching it over from scratch, rather than working with his established techniques.
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/mad-science/nikola-tesla/

Especially ignoble, in that after his death, Nikola Tesla was pretty much ignored by historians for decades, while Edison was given whole library shelves of praise.
http://www.davearcher.com/Machines.html

 

[ZapperZ]

Zapperz ... I agree with this :
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt
Tesla was ignored by the US War Department when he told them had been working on some form of teleforce weapon, or death ray. But when he wound up dead in his apartment a few days later, they classified his documents Top Secret. (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Death_and_afterwards))
Tesla's critique in the announcement was the opening clash between him and modern experimental physics. Tesla may have viewed his principles in such a manner as to not be in conflict with other modern theories (besides Einstein's). Tesla's theory is ignored by some researchers (and mainly disregaurded by physicists).
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Nikola_Tesla
Tesla was clearly ahead of his time, a problem which would haunt his entire career. His inventions and patents for remote operation of robotic devices, for instance, were stunningly advanced but largely ignored at the time. The military inexplicably failed to understand the usefulness of remote-controlled attack vehicles and torpedoes until after Tesla's patents had expired. Even then, they began researching it over from scratch, rather than working with his established techniques.
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/mad-science/nikola-tesla/
Especially ignoble, in that after his death, Nikola Tesla was pretty much ignored by historians for decades, while Edison was given whole library shelves of praise.
http://www.davearcher.com/Machines.html

OK, now turn around and look at how much of his work is now in physics textbooks, that the SI magnetic flux is named after him, he was on the cover of Time, etc... etc.

So how are these "proofs" that he was ignored or forgotten? How is this any different than many other famous scientists and engineers throughout history? Why are we obsessed with Tesla and ignoring all the others? This is why I asked way in the beginning. Why is this any different than many others?

If I don't know any better, I'd say there is a Tesla cult out there.

Zz.

 

[Pravoslavan]

OK, now turn around and look at how much of his work is now in physics textbooks, that the SI magnetic flux is named after him, he was on the cover of Time, etc... etc.
So how are these "proofs" that he was ignored or forgotten? How is this any different than many other famous scientists and engineers throughout history? Why are we obsessed with Tesla and ignoring all the others? This is why I asked way in the beginning. Why is this any different than many others?
If I don't know any better, I'd say there is a Tesla cult out there.
Zz.

Ofcourse that there is a lot of his work in textbooks because we can learn a lot from him... not from Edison who used scientists to get rich.
SI unit for magnetic flux is proof how great he was, but "joke" with Nobel prize is proof how they tried to ignore him, but still using his ideas.

There is no Tesla cult, we are not obsessed with Tesla, if you think that I can tell you right now that you are obsessed. I suggest you to read this, I posted that already...
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt

pay attention on the last paragraph...

 

[Integral]

There is no Tesla cult, we are not obsessed with Tesla

Really.~^ Your posts say otherwise. If you are not obsessed with Tesla then why are we having this conversation.

Perhaps a significant portion of why Tesla did not get more recognition from his contemporaries is that he lost credibility during the final years of his life. This due to his schizophrenia.

Currently Tesla's name is more in the public eye then Edison. I mean have you ever heard of a rock band called Edison?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Perhaps a significant portion of why Tesla did not get more recognition from his contemporaries is that he lost credibility during the final years of his life. This due to his schizophrenia.

Scizophrenia is the wrong diagnosis. Tesla obviously suffered from OCD all his life and his final strangeness was a result of this. Howard Hughes was affected by it in much the same way, although his was exacerbated by drug use. Telsa also probably has something like alzheimers toward the end. There were times he was grossly disoriented about what year it was.

 

[ZapperZ]

Ofcourse that there is a lot of his work in textbooks because we can learn a lot from him... not from Edison who used scientists to get rich.

But you are agreeing to my point earlier that scientists and engineers DO NOT ignore Tesla. If you agree with this particular observation, then your whole point that he is "ignored" or forgotten (as the topic implied) is false! This is what I've been trying to highlight.

SI unit for magnetic flux is proof how great he was, but "joke" with Nobel prize is proof how they tried to ignore him, but still using his ideas.
There is no Tesla cult, we are not obsessed with Tesla, if you think that I can tell you right now that you are obsessed. I suggest you to read this, I posted that already...
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt
pay attention on the last paragraph...

Puhleeze! There are SEVERAL deserving people who should have received the Nobel prize, but didn't. Rosalind Franklin deserves one, and her "fans" have more of a gripe to say that she was forgotten MORE than Tesla. After all, you don't see her name assigned to anything in textbooks.

Again, I can rattle of a bunch of names that are deserving recognition as much, if not more, than Tesla. You are the one focusing on him in particular, not me. In the engineering and scientific circles, Tesla is not ignored, and certainly not forgotten. So how is such a stand reflects an "obsession"?

Zz.

 

[Pravoslavan]

Really.~^ Your posts say otherwise. If you are not obsessed with Tesla then why are we having this conversation.

Hmmmm... let me see... maybe because this is a forum and forum is for having conversation !

 

[Pravoslavan]

But you are agreeing to my point earlier that scientists and engineers DO NOT ignore Tesla. If you agree with this particular observation, then your whole point that he is "ignored" or forgotten (as the topic implied) is false! This is what I've been trying to highlight.

Ok, let's clear this... I say that he IS IGNORED as long as most of the books says that Marconi invented radio, Roentgen X-rays, De Forest vacuum tube amp, or some other guy invented fluorescent bulb etc.
This is what I call ignoring...

Edison invented bulb my ass... he invented electric chair while he was showing how Tesla`s AC is dangerous by killing animals in public. Because of people like Edison, Tesla is marginalized, but he will never be forgoten. Future will show the truth.
And if some people don't like to talk about Tesla, why are they posting in this thread... helloouuu there is no Tesla cult, he deserves more than 3 pages of discusion...

 

[ZapperZ]

Ok, let's clear this... I say that he IS IGNORED as long as most of the books says that Marconi invented radio, Roentgen X-rays, De Forest vacuum tube amp, or some other guy invented fluorescent bulb etc.
This is what I call ignoring...
Edison invented bulb my ass... he invented electric chair while he was showing how Tesla`s AC is dangerous by killing animals in public. Because of people like Edison, Tesla is marginalized, but he will never be forgoten. Future will show the truth.
And if some people don't like to talk about Tesla, why are they posting in this thread... helloouuu there is no Tesla cult, he deserves more than 3 pages of discusion...

So the PBS documentary doesn't count? The Time magazine cover doesn't count? Do a search on the number of books written about Tesla. On Amazon alone you get more than 200! This doesn't count either?

And don't shove your bitterness at me, thankyouverymuch! I am not the one who is pushing all of this to the public. If you have a problem with it, DO SOMETHING rather than whine about it on here. Write to the editors of those books at point to them the SOURCE of the error and give them the accurate reference! If you think the Patent Office made a mistake, WRITE A REBUTTAL!

Tesla is not being ignored, and what *I* mean by saying that is all the above! And IF, even with ALL that, you still consider that he is being "ignored", then tough! There are many other deserving scientists throughout history that did not get their deserved recognition. How many books do you think there are on Rosalind Franklin, or Julian Schwinger? This is not uncommon. There's nothing special at all about this.

Zz.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Things get invented, forgotten and reinvented. Things get invented and not published and other people invent them not knowing it's already been done. I understand that a Russian experimenter preceeded Franklin by a few weeks in proving that lighning was electricity. No one remembers that Russian's name. How many separate Cro-Magnons do you suppose discovered a way to start a fire from scratch? Is it a tragedy for them that we don't know the circumstances and don't know their names? Who invented the wheel? Who invented the fishing net, or the boat? The bow and arrow? Bronze? Steel? No one knows.

 

[Rade]

Thanks for your reply. Tesla was born in Croatia but he was a Serbian, right? I have been intereseted in his biography and career. Do you know any other famous Serbian scientists and inventors ? If so, can you share it with me?

See this link to Serbian scientists:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Serbian_scientists
Next to Tesla, perhaps the most important was Serbian Mileva Maric who taught her young husband, Albert Einstein, mathematics. You can read about her here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric
Where you will find this little known factoid:
Biographer Abram Joffe claims to have seen an original manuscript for the theory of relativity which was signed, "Einstein-Maric".

 

[ZapperZ]

See this link to Serbian scientists:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Serbian_scientists
Next to Tesla, perhaps the most important was Serbian Mileva Maric who taught her young husband, Albert Einstein, mathematics. You can read about her here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric
Where you will find this little known factoid:
Biographer Abram Joffe claims to have seen an original manuscript for the theory of relativity which was signed, "Einstein-Maric".

Again, be very weary of your source, especially with biography on Wikipedia. Read a couple of threads on Wikipedia being discussed in the GD forum

As for the issue of Einstein-"Maric" as it relates to Joffe's claim, read this:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/4/2

Zz.

 

[Pravoslavan]

So the PBS documentary doesn't count? The Time magazine cover doesn't count? Do a search on the number of books written about Tesla. On Amazon alone you get more than 200! This doesn't count either?

You can`t expect some scientist to be ignored 100%... someone will notice good ideas, but what do you say on fact that in my classroom (I`m student of Electrical Engineering Technology) NO ONE KNOWS who was Tesla ? Canadians in Toronto do not know who made hydro plant on Niagara falls... THAT IS IGONORING of Tesla ! But everybody will say that Edison invented bulb and Graham Bell was Canadian who invented phone ... :)
What is more important... a bulb or AC current ? That bulb would be almost useless without AC current. Pople are not informed about great scientists and that is ignoring, not just in Tesla`s case, like you said there is Rosalind Franklin, or Julian Schwinger...

And don't shove your bitterness at me, thankyouverymuch! I am not the one who is pushing all of this to the public. If you have a problem with it, DO SOMETHING rather than whine about it on here.

I`m not the one who have problem with it, I think that some people here have problem with understanding what is the purpose of forum...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tesla+cult
There are Tesla Cults.
There are even claims that a particular cult used his work to create flying saucers and flew to Venus in them lol.
Nikola Tesla is like an underground conspiracy messiah.

 

[zoobyshoe]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tesla+cult
There are Tesla Cults.
There are even claims that a particular cult used his work to create flying saucers and flew to Venus in them lol.

I read somewhere that Tesla is still alive in a secret compound in South America which is also his Flying Saucer base. After he perfected the Flying Saucer he went and picked Marconi up and talked him into joining his private gang of super-engineers.

 

[Averagesupernova]

That bulb would be almost useless without AC current.

Gosh I guess that's why we have ALTERNATORS on our cars and trucks so all the lights aren't useless. :rofl:

Seriously though, you can't expect people to take anything you say seriously when you come with stuff like that. I think it would be more accurate to say that our power distribution system would be useless without AC.

Back when electricity first became practical it was VERY common for people who did not have access to the utilities to have a small DC power plant and a set of batteries. It was a 32 volt system. Often several appliances, one being a washing machine, would share a single electric motor that was moved between them. It was also not uncommon to have wind driven generators. Google for "32 volt delco plant" and you will see what I mean.

The reason people don't know who Tesla is is because they simply haven't been told about him. There really aren't that many people alive today who were alive when Tesla was so that's what we have to rely on.

For the record Pravo, you would fit in well with a Tesla cult. And yes, they do exist.

 

[russ_watters]

As is often the case, the enabling technology (AC power) is forgotton, and the invention we use every day (the light bulb) is remembered. That's life - anyone who isn't an engineer or physicist probably doesn't know the first thing about how electricity works, so there is no reason for them to know that Tesla is the reason for AC power. But they do know that they can't live without light bulbs.

 

[Chi Meson]

Canadians in Toronto do not know who made hydro plant on Niagara falls... THAT IS IGONORING of Tesla !

As Zz said, this is just ignorence, a symptom of a larger problem. There is no conspiracy against Tesla.

But everybody will say that Edison invented bulb and Graham Bell was Canadian who invented phone ... :)

People in US will say Graham Bell was the AMerican who invented the telephone. People in Scotland say he was the Scot who invented the telephone.

I`m not the one who have problem with it, I think that some people here have problem with understanding what is the purpose of forum...

Listen "post count zero," don't you be telling Zz he doesn't understand what this forum is about!

 

[zoobyshoe]

That's life - anyone who isn't an engineer or physicist probably doesn't know the first thing about how electricity works, so there is no reason for them to know that Tesla is the reason for AC power.

Actually, Westinghouse is the reason for AC power. Tesla didn't invent or discover AC, it's the natural product of a dynamo unless you specifically configure it for DC. Everyone did that, because they had no idea how to use AC. Westinghouse found out that AC could be generated at very high voltages making long distance transmission viable, so he went hunting for any and all patents for AC operated devices. He talked to a few different inventors and decided he liked Tesla's AC stuff the best. The fact Tesla's patents had preceeded everyone elses was not a consideration for Westinghouse. He was doing business. He wanted to pull the rug out from beneath Edison and grab that market. Therefore he just went with the AC systems he felt were best.

The Electricity War was really Edison, the company, verses Westinghouse, the company, not Edison, the man, verses Tesla, the man.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Actually, Westinghouse is the reason for AC power. Tesla didn't invent or discover AC, it's the natural product of a dynamo unless you specifically configure it for DC. Everyone did that, because they had no idea how to use AC. Westinghouse found out that AC could be generated at very high voltages making long distance transmission viable, so he went hunting for any and all patents for AC operated devices. He talked to a few different inventors and decided he liked Tesla's AC stuff the best. The fact Tesla's patents had preceeded everyone elses was not a consideration for Westinghouse. He was doing business. He wanted to pull the rug out from beneath Edison and grab that market. Therefore he just went with the AC systems he felt were best.
The Electricity War was really Edison, the company, verses Westinghouse, the company, not Edison, the man, verses Tesla, the man.

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries. The biography I read also indicated, if I remember correctly, that the war was partially fueled by an Edison/Tesla feud and involved attacks directed at Tesla himself. Both Edison and Tesla were actively involved in the campaigning I believe.

 

[zoobyshoe]

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries.

I don't believe this is the case. I could be wrong but I think AC was always known about simply due to the fact it is what comes out if you rotate a magnet near a coil - north-south-north-south, and so on. If I recall correctly they had to spend some effort figuring out how to make a generator generate DC, which is a more complex set up. Tesla's polyphase motors and induction motors were remarkable in that it showed how AC could be of great practical use. If there aren't things down the line that can operate off the AC then long distance transmission of AC is encumbered by having to rectify it before use, which means more equipment and losses. His patents were exactly what Westinghouse needed to make his AC distribution system even more appealing.

The biography I read also indicated, if I remember correctly, that the war was partially fueled by an Edison/Tesla feud and involved attacks directed at Tesla himself. Both Edison and Tesla were actively involved in the campaigning I believe.

Edison and Tesla once had a brief argument about AC verses DC when Tesla worked for Edison. Tesla broached the subject and started telling Edison what could be accomplished with AC. Edison stopped him short and said something like "Here in America, Tesla, we use DC." That was pretty much it. Tesla didn't push it. What eventually made Tesla intensely ticked off at Edison was that Edison reneged on a huge bonus he'd promised if Tesla got all his dynamos in good working order. Tesla spent about a year on this, but when he went for his bonus Edison claimed he'd just been joking and Tesla should have realized it. Tesla quit on the spot and went to digging ditches for a living rather than work for Edison anymore. That was the root of the feud. Not AC vs DC.
I have a great, detailed book called The Electrical Manufacturers which is a history of the subject covering 1875 to 1900. It was really Edison against Westinghouse. Tesla participated, of course, but not as a major opponent to Edison, rather as a helper to Westinghouse. And on the Edison side, yes, Edison lead the campaign himself. He found himself a very unpleasant kind of henchman named Harold P. Brown, who was the one who started demonstrating how dangerous AC was by electrocuting dogs. Edison turned Westinghouse' name into a verb. To "westinghouse" an animal or person was to kill it by electrocution with AC. He referred to people executed in the electric chair as having been "westinghoused". He was really trying to poison people's minds against it.

 

[Mk]

I heard near the end of his life he started talking to pigeons, and castrated himself.

Is it true?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I heard near the end of his life he started talking to pigeons, and castrated himself.
Is it true?

Pigeons yes. Self-castration I have never once ever heard such a thing about him.

 

[Curious3141]

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries. The biography I read also indicated, if I remember correctly, that the war was partially fueled by an Edison/Tesla feud and involved attacks directed at Tesla himself. Both Edison and Tesla were actively involved in the campaigning I believe.

When I was a kid, there were always these little quizzes asked of kids, focusing on major inventions and the responsible inventors. I thought nothing of it then, I thought the men (and rarely women) were being given due credit for brilliant work.

Now, I'm not sure at all of that. I've realized assigning honor to a single person for a discovery or invention is a far more nebulous exercise than most people realize, or care to admit. But it seems people need a popular icon of some sort; we're often more comfortable with giving the wrong person all the credit than admitting we don't know any better.

Did Tesla even invent AC ? I don't know - I've seen very compelling writeups that claim it was Charles Proteus Steinmetz all along. In fact, as Russ pointed out, the vociferous "cult of personality" crackpots surrounding Tesla actually detract from serious study about the assignation of credit for the inventions that may or may not have come from him.

Russ made another excellent point here :

As is often the case, the enabling technology (AC power) is forgotton, and the invention we use every day (the light bulb) is remembered. That's life - anyone who isn't an engineer or physicist probably doesn't know the first thing about how electricity works, so there is no reason for them to know that Tesla is the reason for AC power. But they do know that they can't live without light bulbs.

There's a kernel of profound truth in that observation. Take the car for instance. Get a random poll of people off the street and ask them who invented the car. Let's leave what I think will turn out to be the most common answer to later.

The "more knowledgeable" among those polled may answer "Karl Benz". Yet even this is forgetting Etienne Lenoir, the (supposed) inventor of the internal combustion engine, who essentially enabled all this. Pertaining to the car itself, Cugnot is most likely to be ignored, even though he came up with the steam propelled prototype (we think).

All of the above are answers that I would consider fairly reasonable. But I expect that the most common answer would turn out to be "Henry Ford", even though he had little to do with the invention of the basic concept, but a lot to do with making and marketing a commercially viable model.

So the paradigm holds : Enablers are hardly known, inventors are occasionally known and oft forgotten, marketers are enshrined in popular culture.

But does it really matter anyway ? Society moves on through these inventions - and don't we all "stand on the shoulders of giants" ? Zoobyshoe also made a great point in this respect.

I know that last aphorism was said by someone great, but I couldn't initially remember who it was (I had to google). But in the spirit of non-attribution which I'm beginning to favor over mis-attribution, I shall leave the quote unacknowledged.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Tesla Steals Fame Of Forgotten French Genius

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries.

In 1832, a generator built by a French mechanician produced alternating current for the first time in the history of electrical engineering.

http://www.scitech.mtesz.hu/51landmark/zipernov.htm

Oh, why does the average man at PF think Tesla invented AC when the true French genius' very name is ignored and forgotten?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.scitech.mtesz.hu/51landmark/zipernov.htm

Oh, why does the average man at PF think Tesla invented AC when the true French genius' very name is ignored and forgotten?

Lol... Sorry It was just the book I read that made it seem that way.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Lol... Sorry It was just the book I read that made it seem that way.

I think most of the books on Tesla stack the weights such that everything leans toward the reader assuming he was the first to think up the concept, yes.

I'm rereading "The Electrical Manufacturers" a little bit on the subject of AC history, and it seems Westinghouse got the idea of a public utility based on it from an article he read about a demonstration of an AC system that was on display in London at an Exhibit of Inventions designed by two guys named Gaulard and Gibbs (whose ever heard of them?). The special point of interest was the inclusion of transformers to step the voltage down from transmission levels to user levels.

Westinghouse understood the signifigance instantly because he had worked out, and implemented, similar idea for lowering the line pressure of household gas delivery lines once it got to the house: he simply increased the diameter of the pipes where they lead from the main line into the home, which lowered the pressure. This London exhibit provided him with a way to do this with electricity. But it had to be AC, of course.

I was wrong before when I said he checked out a "few" inventors for AC motors. There were only two: Tesla and an Italian inventor. Originally he was just going to buy up all patents on AC motors, simply to exclude any rival company from access to the good ideas. Then he realized the Italian's patents weren't good enough to be worth buying, and the important one's were Tesla's: they covered every possible usable configuration as far as he could tell.

 

[Andy]

What a legend, its a real shame that some of the conspiracies that surround him overshadow his acheivements. That death ray sounds soo cool though, i want one.

 

[Pravoslavan]

For the record Pravo, you would fit in well with a Tesla cult. And yes, they do exist.

Go medicate yourself man, you have some sirious problems... i wish you all the best ! :yuck: