Lorentz Invariance as local limit of Bigger Manifold

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of Lorentz invariance being a lower limit of a larger manifold that may have a privileged frame allowing for instantaneous, non-local connections between particles. It also mentions the violation of the spirit of relativity by the possibility of instantaneous correlations between distant particles. Some theories have been proposed to reconcile this concept with Einstein's interpretation of special relativity, but the relationship between general relativity and quantum mechanics is still not fully understood.
  • #1
rogerl
238
1
Is it possible that Lorentz invariance is just a lower limit of a larger manifold that has a priveleged frame?

Even if Bell's experiments can't transmit signal faster than light. The spirit of relativity is still violated by say instantaneous correlation between 10 billion light years. As Popper said "we have to give up Einstein’s interpretation of special relativity and return to Lorentz’s interpretation and with it to . . . absolute space and time. . . . The reason for this assertion is that the mere existence of an infinite velocity entails [the existence] of an absolute simultaneity and thereby of an absolute space. Whether or not an infinite velocity can be attained in the transmission of signals is irrelevant for this argument: the one inertial system for which Einsteinian simultaneity coincides with absolute simultaneity . . . would be the system at absolute rest – whether or not this system of absolute rest can be experimentally identified. (Popper 1982: xviii, 20)"

Has anyone encountered a theory wherein Lorentz Invariance is just a lower limit of a another bigger manifold that allows Bell-like instantaneous correlations? Of course by default the bigger manifold can't transmit signal. But supposed signal can be transmitted. We can modify the manifold in such a way that a signal that reaches the other party 10 billion light years away instantaneously in the bigger manifold will take time (equal to the time it takes light to travel) to reach the smaller manifold that is lorentz invariance? Has anyone heard such a thing or close to it?

Does anybody really think that instantaneous, non-local, space-like, universe-wide
relations of absolute simultaneity (and EPR causal correlations) are logically, mathematically and ontologically consistent with Einstein’s GTR?
 
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  • #2
rogerl said:
Is it possible that Lorentz invariance is just a lower limit of a larger manifold that has a priveleged frame?

Yes.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4652
http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2495

rogerl said:
Has anyone encountered a theory wherein Lorentz Invariance is just a lower limit of a another bigger manifold that allows Bell-like instantaneous correlations? Of course by default the bigger manifold can't transmit signal. But supposed signal can be transmitted. We can modify the manifold in such a way that a signal that reaches the other party 10 billion light years away instantaneously in the bigger manifold will take time (equal to the time it takes light to travel) to reach the smaller manifold that is lorentz invariance? Has anyone heard such a thing or close to it?

Does anybody really think that instantaneous, non-local, space-like, universe-wide
relations of absolute simultaneity (and EPR causal correlations) are logically, mathematically and ontologically consistent with Einstein’s GTR?

I don't know of any case of emergent quantum mechanics. The relationship between GR and QM is still not understood (except in special cases like AdS/CFT or perturbative quantum gravity).
 
  • #3
atyy said:

I mean, is it possible that Lorentz invariance is just a lower limit of a larger manifold that has a priveleged frame that is instantaneous universe wide non-locally connected??
 

1. What is Lorentz Invariance?

Lorentz Invariance is a fundamental principle in physics that states that the laws of physics should remain the same for all observers moving at a constant velocity. This means that the laws of physics should be independent of the reference frame from which they are observed.

2. How does Lorentz Invariance relate to Bigger Manifolds?

In the theory of relativity, spacetime is described as a four-dimensional manifold. Bigger manifolds are higher-dimensional extensions of this spacetime, and Lorentz Invariance is a local limit of these bigger manifolds.

3. What does it mean for Lorentz Invariance to be a local limit?

This means that in the presence of larger manifolds, Lorentz Invariance is still a valid principle at a smaller, local level. In other words, the laws of physics remain unchanged for observers in a small region of spacetime, even if the overall structure of spacetime may be more complex.

4. What evidence supports the idea of Lorentz Invariance as a local limit of Bigger Manifolds?

There is strong experimental evidence supporting Lorentz Invariance, including precise measurements of the speed of light and the behavior of particles at high energies. Additionally, the theory of relativity has been tested and confirmed in many different situations, providing further support for the concept of Lorentz Invariance as a local limit.

5. How does Lorentz Invariance impact our understanding of the universe?

Lorentz Invariance is a fundamental principle in our understanding of the universe, as it helps to explain the behavior of objects at high speeds and in different reference frames. It also plays a crucial role in the theory of relativity, which has revolutionized our understanding of space, time, and gravity.

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