Are physicists/mathematicians dumb?

  • Thread starter Howers
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In summary: Although this would be much more boring than manipulating some algebraic equations, at least for me).In summary, the conversation discusses the speaker's feelings of being left out while their friends in business and life science are having fun with part-time work and parties. They question the practicality of pursuing a PhD in math and physics and mention the pressure from society to succeed in these fields. They also mention potential career options outside academia and the importance of hard work over intelligence. The conversation ends with the suggestion to consider a career in finance or business instead.
  • #71
This topic sure has given everybody a lesson...
The key thing is, if only there could have a guaranteed stable-income job for physicist, then everything would be solved.
In fact, we not sure.
 
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  • #72
this is one of those almost worthless gossipy threads of little substance. i.e, once it has been said that one should pursue science out if love for the subject there is nothing else to say. DIE, DIE DIE! or go watch entertainment tonight.
 
  • #73
mathwonk said:
this is one of those almost worthless gossipy threads of little substance. i.e, once it has been said that one should pursue science out if love for the subject there is nothing else to say. DIE, DIE DIE! or go watch entertainment tonight.

Says the great geometer for whom everything worked out for. Nowadays competition is a lot more fierce than it was back in the day. Would you be here telling us to follow our dreams if you were working at a coffee shop?

I think I've made up my mind. Business is the more logical decision. 10 years of training so that I "might find work"? Sounds like a dumb thing to do, and hence I think I answered my own question. Do I want to be cleaning floors and telling my kids I can't afford that new shirt because I decided to follow my dream, just like that guy on the subway who plays guitar for scrap change. Clearly as dictated by IQ, I won't be the guy making any major progress in the field anyway. And yet you "physicists" impusively claim the score is a poor indicator of ability, despite the fact that science shows the contrary. Similarily, if I miraculously do get a research position I will have to do some eminant professor's work or beg to get grants. Otherwise use my un-related skills for other work, because I proved myself to be capable. So all that instead of grinding my teeth and doing some paper work for a paycheque. You don't go to school if money was not part of the motivation. If you claim otherwise, you are living in denial and may need reflection more than I. I've grown up all my life with b1tchy parents who will start arguing over the smallest things because they were living in debt. Living a life like that is enough to turn my life around, even if it means leaving my beloved physics. Work is work, and I'd rather hate my job than hate my life. I will probably get 88 hours a week to enjoy it anyway!
 
  • #74
lol...even a fellow physics major, who was going to grad school told me to go into somethign else like medicine, and avoid physics. back then, i was like WTF, but later, i understood.

Lol, howers, are you and i (and i think defenderr too) the only ones worrried about having a more secure future in this topic??

anyways howers, i still highly recommend medicine. You get to work with ppl, and use science!hope things turn out well for ya.
 
  • #75
Howers said:
Says the great geometer for whom everything worked out for. Nowadays competition is a lot more fierce than it was back in the day. Would you be here telling us to follow our dreams if you were working at a coffee shop?
I have said the same thing as mathwonk and you can't say that everything has worked out for me.

But then again you can just say that I can't know how it is because I haven't made it through, right?

I think I've made up my mind. Business is the more logical decision. 10 years of training so that I "might find work"? Sounds like a dumb thing to do, and hence I think I answered my own question. Do I want to be cleaning floors and telling my kids I can't afford that new shirt because I decided to follow my dream, just like that guy on the subway who plays guitar for scrap change.
Getting a PhD in physics (or math) and not ending up with a position at a research university does not imply that you will have to work at a coffee shop or cleaning floor. There is a huge need for math and physics high school teachers. There is also positions at non-research university you can look at or at community colleges. Those are far better jobs than cleaning floors and you can definitely make a decent living on such a salary.

You don't go to school if money was not part of the motivation. If you claim otherwise, you are living in denial and may need reflection more than I. I've grown up all my life with b1tchy parents who will start arguing over the smallest things because they were living in debt. Living a life like that is enough to turn my life around, even if it means leaving my beloved physics. Work is work, and I'd rather hate my job than hate my life. I will probably get 88 hours a week to enjoy it anyway!
I am not going to school for money. I am going to school because I want to be a mathematician/to teach mathematics. Society requires me to have a couple of degrees to do that. That is why I am at school (besides the fact that its great for learning). Maybe you are not a person who enjoys learning. But that doesn't mean that you should think that no one else does. There are some of us in the world who genuinely enjoy learning and helping others learn.

Don't kid yourself, you don't love physics as much as you think you do.

I have "bitchy" parents as well. My dad has never made more than $25,000 a year (for most of his life he made quite a bit less). There is 8 siblings in the family.

If it was up to him I would be working towards a career in accounting, actuarial science, finance, etc.

He knows I can make enough money as a teacher to raise my family (wife and 1 son so far, living on less than $10,000 a year, note we live in Los Angeles, CA) but he'd much rather I have a job where I was making much more money so I could provide for him.

Now I am not trying to convince you to change your decision. From the comments you have made in this thread I know you do not have the love for physics that I and others have for math and others have for physics (although you may think you do).


I am writing this for others who might also love math or physics as I do. So that they will not get intimidated by your negative attitude towards pursuing the type of career that I am pursuing and you are deciding not to pursue.
 
  • #76
SCV said:
Getting a PhD in physics (or math) and not ending up with a position at a research university does not imply that you will have to work at a coffee shop or cleaning floor. There is a huge need for math and physics high school teachers. There is also positions at non-research university you can look at or at community colleges. Those are far better jobs than cleaning floors and you can definitely make a decent living on such a salary.

I hate when people bring this up. How is having a high school teaching position as a backup supposed to ease the nervousness of going into a science PhD program? If anything, it just makes the whole situation more depressing.
 
  • #77
alligatorman said:
I hate when people bring this up. How is having a high school teaching position as a backup supposed to ease the nervousness of going into a science PhD program? If anything, it just makes the whole situation more depressing.

Being a high school teacher is more depressing than mopping floors or working at a coffee shop?

Also my original intention was to become a high school teacher after college. I saw that I liked research so I am going to shoot for a position at a research university. But if I don't make it, being a high school teacher is not going to be a depressing back up.
 
  • #78
the point is that most ppl don't think being a high school teacher is all that great.

pay tends not to be great, budget cuts lead to salary cuts. he's not directly comparing beign a teacher to mopping floors or working at a cofffee shop. SCV, it's great you want to do this, disregarding money. more power to you! but many others don't feel the same way.

with the economy liek it is, and rising food and energy costs, how much of a "decent living" can these jobs as a high school teacher can one tolerate? how much can a physics post-doc tolerate? how much uncertainty can a post-doc tolerate?

SCV, i understand your argument of doign what you love and havign a "decent living", but you too have to acknowledge our perspective of things.
 
  • #79
I never hay any intention whatsoever to work as a teacher, but right after my studies, as a matter of conincidences, I had held several private classes in various computers/programming topics and I had at thta time also a temporary/stand-in (half-year) job as a high school teacher in computers and programming.

I found it was an interesting experience. There are much fun with teaching, and meeting a range of students all with different personality is stimulating.

The one part I could imagine beeing depressive in the long run if you are too serious about your subject is that (in my experience) only a fraction of the students at that level(ie high school) are sincerely interested, and the rest of them are just trying to kill the time in class by any measures they can come up with and make fun of your baby topics :) During the short time I had there (until I switched to another job) it was all fun though.

/Fredrik
 
  • #80
Howers said:
You don't go to school if money was not part of the motivation. If you claim otherwise, you are living in denial and may need reflection more than I.

This is what psychologists call "projection". :smile:

*I* am not going to school for the money. I'm going to school because I enjoy physics more than computer science, despite the fact that I expect to take a substantial pay cut. Life is too short to spend so much of it at a job you dislike.
 
  • #81
Howers said:
I think I've made up my mind. Business is the more logical decision. 10 years of training so that I "might find work"? Sounds like a dumb thing to do, and hence I think I answered my own question. Do I want to be cleaning floors and telling my kids I can't afford that new shirt because I decided to follow my dream, just like that guy on the subway who plays guitar for scrap change.

I think with your mindset that indeed, you should look for an education that will increase your chances to make a comfortable amount of money and that you should back away from physics.

However, stop judging people who did otherwise, because that decision is not "logical" or "scientific". If you do something you really love for 10 years, well knowing that you decrease your chances to make money afterwards, but like the "immediate consumption", then there's nothing illogical about it. But visibly for you these 10 years are not "pure joy" and in *that* case indeed you shouldn't continue.

It is amazing that you discover this only now. I have to say that I had several honest professors who told me that rather explicitly: with my engineering degree, I was "stupid" to go into physics for another 8 years if my aim was to improve my future income or my employability. They told me that I was at that point at my "best point to get a real job" and that things would only degrade afterwards, but that if I wanted to have fun in physics, well that was the way to go - and who knows, maybe I'd really find a job as a physicist !

Also, I would like to tune in with others who point out that it is not the choice between being a professor, or mopping the floor. You can find other jobs with a physics degree although of course the path has been sub-optimal if you only look at the outcome (although maybe not if you include the "joy-factor" of doing physics for 10 years).

You don't go to school if money was not part of the motivation. If you claim otherwise, you are living in denial and may need reflection more than I.

You forget the joy-factor ! You don't go on a holiday to make money either, do you ?
 
  • #82
On that note, I think this thread has come to a natural ending point, since members are just going round in circles!
 

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