What would it take you to be convinced God existed?

[Royce]

You presume too much, Zero. I am not responding in an emotional way but only on and intellectual, philisophic way.
I have no fear or determinism or control. I just don't believe it. Think how free of guilt, indicision and responsibility we would all be if it were a deterministic world. Instead of saying; "The Devil made me do it we could say; "Physics and Chemistry made me do it."

Restricted free will sound more near the truth. None of us are really free. We all have buttons that can be and are pushed to make us respond in set patterns. In at least that sense we are hardwired.
Every once in a while one of us jumps out of the box and does some really creative thinking or performs some really beautiful creative
act. We can't account for that happening yet.

I am as stubborn and convinced that I am closer to the truth as you are. I see no way out of the dilemma other than calling a truce or cease fire. I know there is no way either of us will agree that it is a draw but maybe a stalemate?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Royce
You presume too much, Zero. I am not responding in an emotional way but only on and intellectual, philisophic way.
I have no fear or determinism or control. I just don't believe it. Think how free of guilt, indicision and responsibility we would all be if it were a deterministic world. Instead of saying; "The Devil made me do it we could say; "Physics and Chemistry made me do it."

Restricted free will sound more near the truth. None of us are really free. We all have buttons that can be and are pushed to make us respond in set patterns. In at least that sense we are hardwired.
Every once in a while one of us jumps out of the box and does some really creative thinking or performs some really beautiful creative
act. We can't account for that happening yet.

I am as stubborn and convinced that I am closer to the truth as you are. I see no way out of the dilemma other than calling a truce or cease fire. I know there is no way either of us will agree that it is a draw but maybe a stalemate?

I think we have found all the common ground we're going to get in this statement: " Restricted free will sound more near the truth. None of us are really free. We all have buttons that can be and are pushed to make us respond in set patterns. In at least that sense we are hardwired."

Otherwise, I think we are done, don't you?

 

[megashawn]

wow, I thought I was never going to get to the end of this thing.

Royce, I think this was said on page 6 or 7:

Mind if I step in and ask a few questions?
What constitutes "Good Evidence"? Does the thinking and experience of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people for 10,000 years or so not count as evidence? Is it just the speculations of a select few for a few hundred years all that can count as evidence and only because it is "science"?

Ok, these millions of peoples had 10,000 years or so to improve life. Up until just a few started making miraculous breakthroughs, did life actually start to improve.

Tell me something, what's more important to mankind, having a religous belief or a refrigerator?

 

[Zantra]

Originally posted by megashawn
wow, I thought I was never going to get to the end of this thing.

Royce, I think this was said on page 6 or 7:



Ok, these millions of peoples had 10,000 years or so to improve life. Up until just a few started making miraculous breakthroughs, did life actually start to improve.

Tell me something, what's more important to mankind, having a religous belief or a refrigerator?

fridge

 

[Royce]

Absolutely! Fridge, car maybe house. Man cannot live on beer alone. (thus the prime imporance of fridge.) He must have wheels.

Yeah, Zero, I think we have exhausted the subject, at least ourselves of the subject. Thanks. Good game.

 

[megashawn]

Absolutely! Fridge, car maybe house. Man cannot live on beer alone.

Thats not completely true. There are enough essential vitamins and nuttrients in a beer to supply the human body with its daily needs.

Why do you think alcoholics develop a beer belly?

Of course, you'd die eventually if you drank beer to live.


But do you not see my point? You stated that for thousands of years many people have believed in God. What has it done for us? Where has it taken us? How has it improved life on earth?

Nothing, nowhere and notta. Although I have to give credit to these foundations which try to feed and school children in foriegn countrys. But even without advances made in a very short amount of time, it would not be possible.

I mean, if your trying to build a dog house, the same way your daddy and his daddy built them, and it takes you 15 hours to get the frame together, well, that would suck.

But then, you notice your neighbor who is doing it in 10 minutes. Would it not be sensible to learn the method which, although is nothing like the old method, is so much better, and has proven this, in just a short amount of time?

I mean, think about those millions of believers over time, how many of them died from something simple, like the Flu, or chicken pox, a cavity, etc. Life expectancies were half(being conservative) what they are now, and the general comfort of life was not comfortable at all.

We don't know how good we got it now if you ask me. And I actually know people who thank god for a new piece of technology. Not knowing that the principles that go into developing that technology could offer evidence of non-existance of a god. Think about before we had refridgeration, we kept ice chests to store our meat. If the ice melted, you was out of dinner. Also the ice would not keep the meat cold enough, allowing bacteria and such to infect the food, also leading to more deaths.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by megashawn
But do you not see my point? You stated that for thousands of years many people have believed in God. What has it done for us? Where has it taken us? How has it improved life on earth?

What is the point in believing in God? I understand that the Ancients who, communicated directly with the angels -- before passing on and becoming angels themselves -- live in the highest heavens and are therefore most "innocent."

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
What is the point in believing in God? I understand that the Ancients who, communicated directly with the angels -- before passing on and becoming angels themselves -- live in the highest heavens and are therefore most "innocent."

And if you don't believe I have the means by which to ascertain this for myself, guess again.

 

[heusdens]

And since there seems to be nobody around anymore that takes Iachhus32 ideas serious, he defaults now to talking to himself...

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by heusdens
And since there seems to be nobody around anymore that takes Iachhus32 ideas serious, he defaults now to talking to himself...

Yes, what is the point in believing in God?

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Yes, what is the point in believing in God?

Is that a rethorical question or an actual question? Do you ask this in general, or are you just asking yourself?

If you want or need my opinion on that:

There is no point in believing outside believing itself. The belief is purpose in and for itself, and has no relationship to any outside objective reality. Believing in God does not make any practical real life any better, it does not improof any one's life.

But if you belief in God, actually the fact that that is untrue is not acknowledged by the believer, since it is believed that it actually does have some meaning.

 

[Isotope]

I used to believe in god, but then I just stopped, t'was a few years ago, woke up one morning, not beleiving. And its not helping that some of my religious neighbors are very very nosey and I sometimes wish to destroy them, one by one, by cutting off their fingers, replacing them with razors, then throw them in a large tub of salt and itching powder. Anyway, I probably never will believe in god again. Its ok though.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by heusdens
Is that a rethorical question or an actual question? Do you ask this in general, or are you just asking yourself?

Am just reiterating the general question posed by megashawn which was included in my "first reply" above ... just to be sure you knew "who" I was talking to, that is.