Who influenced Breivik to commit his heinous act?

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In summary, the video discusses Breivik's acquaintance's theory that Breivik was brainwashed by right wing extremists. It also discusses some of the possible reasons behind his act. The reporter seems to be overreaching in some of their conclusions, but the information is still informative.
  • #36
Willowz said:
Many of you are steadfast that this man is not insane. I did not believe that too at the beginning of this thread, but now I think he is.

If he isn't insane what is he? Another unibomber?

Do you think that someone must be insane to commit horrible acts? ANYONE can do terrible things if they convince themselves that it is the RIGHT decision. If my neighbor is known to be abusing his children does that give me the right to murder him? No! Is it the right thing to do? I bet many would say yes.
 
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  • #37
Some folks seem to have an idea that either your brain is healthy and works fully well, or then it is not healthy and doesn't work at all. Of course that's not the way it is. A medical condition can affect some brain functions, and leave others untouched.

If somebody is intelligent in a sense that he can plan and operate rationally, but still has serious problems in feeling empathy and estimating ethics, could the person be called insane? Whatever, I'm not interested in debating the meaning of this word myself.

My opinion: Breivik should be put into an MRI scanner before other more delicate examination. No speculation could replace the act of actually looking into his head and finding out the physical situation of his brains.
 
  • #38
Unless he has strong evidence of a physical cause of insanity (i.e. brain damage) I will be surprised if he is found psychologically insane on the basis of what I know about the case. I say this because I can't help thinking that if he had claimed that he was doing it for God aside from a brief check for schizophrenia people would not be discussing if he was insane and just accept that he was severely misguided.
 
  • #39
zomgwtf said:
Also, give it up with this ridiculous notion that he's going to be living in luxury. Have you talked to the judges Evo? Somehow convinced them to give you an opinion on what they'll do to him once they find him guilty. Good to know.
Have you missed all of the discussions on Norwegian law? The punishment for this crime is 21 years in a nice dorm where inmates play games with the unarmed female "guards", taking cooking classes and playing bongos in their living room, looking out large unbarred windows into a gorgeous 75 acre wood where they are allowed to run around and have fun.

Sounds like hell.

You might want to actually read about the Norwegian penal system before you make such comments.
 
  • #40
zomgwtf said:
Well I've told yo two sources, go through them they are available with many, many definitions.
I'm not qualified to use the DSM as a source and state things.

YOU say that you 'think he is' insane... what exactly makes you think this? You just have a hunch? Obviously something has convinced you to change your mind (as you state in the quoted post) so just explain that to me.
Well, at first I thought he was radicalised by some group of people. But, since there was no evidence supporting this claim... I thought he just went nuts. Loony, you know?

Can someone tell us. Does insanity necessarily imply that a person is not aware of his or her actions?
 
  • #41
Willowz said:
I'm not qualified to use the DSM as a source and state things.

Well, at first I thought he was radicalised by some group of people. But, since there was no evidence supporting this claim... I thought he just went nuts. Loony, you know?

Can someone tell us. Does insanity necessarily imply that a person is not aware of his or her actions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity#In_medicine" means it better to address them specifically. In answer to your questions some mental disorders result in the patient unaware of their actions, in other cases their rational faculty is degraded so that whilst they are aware of their actions the don't really comprehend the significance of what they are doing.

Also note that whilst some definitions of mental disorder is to have a psychology far outside of the societal norm fervent ideological beliefs are not necessarily classed as mental disorders.

*It is however still a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense" [Broken] that simply means that the defendant has a mental disorder that meant that they were not of sound mind when the crime was committed.
 
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  • #42
ryan_m_b said:
Also note that whilst some definitions of mental disorder is to have a psychology far outside of the societal norm fervent ideological beliefs are not necessarily classed as mental disorders.
Ehh, lunatic beliefs that get rooted in history become unclassifiable as insane doctrines. And the wheel keeps on turning. I feel sorry for evolutionary psychologists. :uhh:
 
  • #43
Everyone is backing away from any connection to Breivik. They probably hate Breivik for destroying their cause. Maybe not destroy, but it's surely set them back for quite awhile.

http://news.yahoo.com/norway-gunmans-mentor-slams-attacks-pure-evil-010126672.html;_ylt=Av2otrfmWN8Eq2fheZ8Eb7lVbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTQwbXBjN2VhBGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDIwMHBvb2xyZXN0BHBrZwMzYTdlOGNhMS0wY2RkLTNlNGYtODQ5ZC05NWI0NTNjZGE0OTgEcG9zAzMEc2VjA25ld3NfZm9yX3lvdQR2ZXIDMGI2MTE2ZDAtYjliYi0xMWUwLWJiZDktOGVhOTY0ZTRmZmZl;_ylg=X3oDMTJ2N3Rya2I4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDY2RiNDFlYzItY2JiZC0zM2E1LTgxODEtODZlYTk4MTFmZmY0BHBzdGNhdAN3b3JsZHxldXJvcGUEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdl;_ylv=3 [Broken]
 
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  • #44
Willowz said:
Ehh, lunatic beliefs that get rooted in history make it unclassifiable as insane beliefs. And the wheel keeps on turning. I feel sorry for evolutionary psychologists. :uhh:

It's a difficult one, at what point does a superstition become a compulsive disorder? Remember that for something to be a disorder/disease there has to be some health implication which has huge grey areas. It sounds simple sometimes but it's really not. I remember a lawyer friend of mine telling me about a case some years ago (back in the 80s/90s I think) of a homosexual S&M club that was raided by police. The youngest member was just 18 and was into having certain body parts stapled to furniture. The judge apparently said that the person clearly had to be mentally ill because of this decision, in actuality he was just into some pretty bizarre but not health harming activities (the acts caused minimal/superficial damage). The problem is that some people find it extremely difficult to imagine how someone could choose to do something that they themselves find a crazy choice.

With regards to Breivik, taking in what I know (which is not of course the full story so I may be wrong) he is perfectly capable of rational thought and planning. His actions were decided by his extreme ideologies that are not necessarily the product of a mental disorder.
 
  • #45
ryan_m_b said:
With regards to Breivik, taking in what I know (which is not of course the full story so I may be wrong) he is perfectly capable of rational thought and planning. His actions were decided by his extreme ideologies that are not necessarily the product of a mental disorder.
Ahh. But, are the ideologies themselves a perverse form of an ailment of the mind? Specifically the ones that lead to these actions.
 
  • #46
Willowz said:
Ahh. But, are the ideologies themselves a perverse form of an ailment of the mind? Specifically the ones that lead to these actions.
I don't think anyone can answer that.
 
  • #47
Willowz said:
Ahh. But, are the ideologies themselves a perverse form of an ailment of the mind? Specifically the ones that lead to these actions.

I agree with Evo, we can't say for sure. It's a hugely grey area, where do you draw the line between people who believe they are superman and people who believe in a personal God? I think we have to be strict with our classification of what constitutes a mental disorder with regards to ideologies. The system could be too easily abused with criminals using it as a defence and hate groups using it as an excuse to persecute.
 
  • #48
Yes. This is an interesting talk by Dennett that I think is relevant.

 
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  • #49
Willowz said:
Ahh. But, are the ideologies themselves a perverse form of an ailment of the mind? Specifically the ones that lead to these actions.

Well it could be a mixture of both. It may not... it's not an objective one answer fits all. It goes case-by-case. Not all are cut and dry.

Regardless, I think you get my point about asking you to use the sources I've cited. (That is, that you don't know what you're talking about and are just being emotional about the situation)
 
  • #50
zomgwtf said:
Well it could be a mixture of both. It may not... it's not an objective one answer fits all. It goes case-by-case. Not all are cut and dry.

Regardless, I think you get my point about asking you to use the sources I've cited. (That is, that you don't know what you're talking about and are just being emotional about the situation)
Then, let's wait and see what's the verdict on Breviks mental health.
 
  • #51
Evo said:
Have you missed all of the discussions on Norwegian law? The punishment for this crime is 21 years in a nice dorm where inmates play games with the unarmed female "guards", taking cooking classes and playing bongos in their living room, looking out large unbarred windows into a gorgeous 75 acre wood where they are allowed to run around and have fun.

Sounds like hell.

You might want to actually read about the Norwegian penal system before you make such comments.

I'm pretty sure I was in a thread defending the Norwegian system and you came in and said that I knew just as much as anyone who can google.

Clearly not the case. I'm sure you know how to use google... and I clearly know a lot more than you. You sound like those ridiculous fox news and daily mail 'media' sources.

Perhaps YOU should read more about their penal system. If you knew anything then you would realize just how stupid what you've said is.

(First, the jail system which you speak of is EXPERIMENTAL in an effort to see if it helps the inmates better while reducing the amount of recidivism, less recidivism = a lot less crime. Second, you are assuming this EXPERIMENTAL jail system is the only one in all of Norway, quit a stupid assumption I'm sure you got that from reading the Daily Fail. Thirdly, you assume that Breivik will even end up in this jail system. I HIGHLY doubt that, he will be in a barred cold floor cell more than likely but as I said if you have connections to the judge(s) that will be sentencing and they've told you that they already know he's guilty AND which nice fancy prison he's going to than go ahead and say that.)

The traditional Norwegian jails may be 'less harsh' than their American counterparts but that means **** all. If all you care about is harming people who break the law than I think that's a sick mentality, no matter how atrocious the crime is. He will be removed from society, more than likely for his entire life. That's good enough for me.

Now to just make sure he is unable to get any sort of followers. That is all.
 
  • #53
zomgwtf said:
(First, the jail system which you speak of is EXPERIMENTAL in an effort to see if it helps the inmates better while reducing the amount of recidivism, less recidivism = a lot less crime. Second, you are assuming this EXPERIMENTAL jail system is the only one in all of Norway, quit a stupid assumption I'm sure you got that from reading the Daily Fail. Thirdly, you assume that Breivik will even end up in this jail system. I HIGHLY doubt that, he will be in a barred cold floor cell more than likely but as I said if you have connections to the judge(s) that will be sentencing and they've told you that they already know he's guilty AND which nice fancy prison he's going to than go ahead and say that.)
Can the attitude.
 
  • #55
  • #56
Evo said:
Thanks arildno, you won't find find a holding cell like that in the US.

Does Ikea do all the jail cells there?
Probably.
After all, IKEA is the cheapest furniture designer&provider we have in Norway..
 
  • #57
arildno said:
Probably.
After all, IKEA is the cheapest furniture designer&provider we have in Norway..
And here. :tongue:
 
  • #58
I don't think it's against the rules to have attitude?

This is the hallway of the same prison cell that arildno posted:

article-2019720-0D2F5C4D00000578-651_954x635.jpg

Compared to an American MAXIMUM security prison:
a_supermax_0205.jpg


All that's different is the inside. As I said perhaps the conditions are 'less' harsh but it's hardly the 'luxurious' life at the cottage you're trying to portray, get real. You want to go live there go ahead.

Regardless, I want some official statements of what prison Breivik is headed to. No non-sense spouted by the Daily mail.
 
  • #59
Here's an article from 2009 on Norway's prison system.

Where convicts lead the good life
In Norway, even murders and rapists have a shot at landing in "open prison."

OSLO, Norway — The first time I went to prison, it was to an idyllic place with lush woodland, bright-colored houses and the waters of the Oslo fjord sparkling in the summer sun.

It was July 2006 and I was visiting Bastoey, an open prison 45 miles south of the Norwegian capital. It is home to about 115 detainees, including murderers, rapists and other felons, who enjoy activities not usually associated with prisons.

In summer, they can improve their backhand on the tennis court, ride a horse in the forest and hit the beach for a swim. In winter, they can go cross-country skiing or participate in the prison's ski-jumping competition.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/europe/091017/norway-open-prison
 
  • #61
zomgwtf said:
There you go on about the experimental prison system again.
So, show me their bad prisons.
 
  • #62
zomgwtf said:
I don't think it's against the rules to have attitude?

This is the hallway of the same prison cell that arildno posted:

article-2019720-0D2F5C4D00000578-651_954x635.jpg

Compared to an American MAXIMUM security prison:
a_supermax_0205.jpg


All that's different is the inside. As I said perhaps the conditions are 'less' harsh but it's hardly the 'luxurious' life at the cottage you're trying to portray, get real. You want to go live there go ahead.

Regardless, I want some official statements of what prison Breivik is headed to. No non-sense spouted by the Daily mail.

The best guesstimate is that he will stay at Ila prison, if he is judged sane and convicted.
We have only one other high-security prison besides Ila, Ringerike Prison where most of our extremely dangerous convicts are placed (we have 155 guards there, for 160 prisoners).

The major trouble with Ringerike Prison, however is that it would be extremely bad taste to place Breivik there:
Ringerike Prison is situated right beside the Tyrifjord Lake (with a grand view of it from the cells, I believe), where Utøya lies..
 
  • #63
In US terms, Norway is a very peaceful civil society where most crimes are committed by juveniles and (often) first-time offenders. Therefor, they rehabilitate people.

I am pretty sure the 'tree-huggers' prison mentioned here is there exactly for that reason: to rehabilitate mostly juveniles who just got derailed and lost touch that they live in a peaceful society, to make them understand that by setting the right example of that society in prison, that they get all the benefits and opportunities of that society, that society -in a manner of sense- doesn't care that they got side-tracked for a while, but that they should be damned sure not to do it again. That's why they have -in US terms- insanely low numbers of recidivism.

Breivik is a freak-of-nature given their society. Insane or not, he is a terrorist, he doesn't fit into any of the above categories.

One of the youth who was attacked and witnessed the atrocities responded that he felt sorry for Breivik, and that the guy deserves help.

This was a terrorist attack on Norway society. Moving towards harsher conditions and sharper divides in society is exactly what Breivik would want. The Norwegians response is exactly right: They will not let others dictate how they should live, and they will not change society for the purposes of an idiot.
 
  • #64
Stick him in here.

[URL]http://frugalzeitgeist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/prison-390x520.jpg[/URL]
 
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  • #65
This was a terrorist attack on Norway society. Moving towards harsher conditions and sharper divides in society is exactly what Breivik would want. The Norwegians response is exactly right: They will not let others dictate how they should live, and they will not change society for the purposes of an idiot.
This is something some friends of mine from Norway have actually said over and over again. Even though one of them had suffered the loss of a friend.

Even those that were killed would not want Breivik to face harsh treatment. That's THEIR words, not mine.
 
  • #66
MarcoD said:
This was a terrorist attack on Norway society. Moving towards harsher conditions and sharper divides in society is exactly what Breivik would want. The Norwegians response is exactly right: They will not let others dictate how they should live, and they will not change society for the purposes of an idiot.

Slow-Clap.gif
 
  • #67
Willowz said:
Stick him in here.

[URL]http://frugalzeitgeist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/prison-390x520.jpg
I[/URL] love it!
 
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  • #68
The US alternative - still too humane?...

ADX Florence - prisoners are kept in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day for at least the first year.

Most cells' furniture is made almost entirely out of poured concrete, including the desk, stool, and bed. Each chamber contains a toilet that shuts off if plugged, a shower that runs on a timer to prevent flooding, and a sink missing a potentially dangerous trap. Rooms may also be fitted with polished steel mirrors bolted to the wall, an electric light, a radio, and a television that shows recreational, educational and religious programming.[11] These are considered privileges that may be taken away as punishment, so they are placed and remotely controlled such that the inmate does not actually come into contact with them. The 4 in (10 cm) by 4 ft (1.2 m) windows are designed to prevent the prisoner from knowing his specific location within the complex because he can see only the sky and roof through them. Additionally, inmates exercise in what has been described as an "empty swimming pool," so they do not know their location for possible escape.[12] Telecommunication with the outside world is forbidden, and food is hand-delivered by correctional officers. The prison as a whole contains a multitude of motion detectors and cameras, 1,400 remote-controlled steel doors, and 12 ft (3.66 m) high razor wire fences. Laser beams, pressure pads, and attack dogs guard the area between the prison walls and razor wire.[citation needed]

Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber, lamented in a series of 2006 letters to a Colorado Springs newspaper that the ADX is meant to "inflict misery and pain."[13] Charles Harrelson, who was sent to ADX after a failed attempt to escape from a Georgia prison, said "Part of the plan here is sensory deprivation," and "It could be infinitely worse."[12] A former ADX warden described the place as "a cleaner version of Hell."[14] There have been hundreds of "involuntary feedings" and four suicides.[14] Most recently, in June 2009 Richard Reid, commonly known as the "shoe bomber", went on a hunger strike and was force-fed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence
 
  • #69
apeiron said:
The US alternative - still too humane?...

I don't know. Evo once commented that witch-hunts don't exist anymore. I partly disagree. A witch-hunt can be seen as an emotional response to something which triggers public moral outrage. Breivik, Strauss-Kahn, the US's public response to 9/11 can all also be viewed from that perspective.

The right thing, I think, is to stay calm about it and just look at the numbers: Are you, as a society, better off with harsh penalties, or tree-hugging criminals to death? The problem is that nobody knows what works except for crime statistics and recidivism.
 
  • #70
The difference is with hardened criminals here, people that grew up in a world of gang violence that don't know anything else. You live by having power over others, drugs, killing, it's their life. A failure of society, yes, but they are killing machines, they don't care. Send one of these people to a Norwegian prison and see what happens. These people have no remorse, they get their kicks out of killing people.

US prison max security.

[PLAIN]http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4874/inmates.jpg [Broken]
 
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<h2>1. Who influenced Breivik to commit his heinous act?</h2><p>Anders Behring Breivik was a self-proclaimed right-wing extremist who committed a mass shooting and bombing in Norway in 2011. He claimed to have been influenced by a variety of individuals and organizations, including the Knights Templar, a supposed secret society that he claimed to be a member of. He also cited anti-Islamic bloggers and writers as well as historical figures such as Winston Churchill and Charles Martel as influences.</p><h2>2. Did Breivik have any mental health issues that may have influenced his actions?</h2><p>Breivik underwent several psychiatric evaluations, with conflicting results. One evaluation found him to be sane and criminally responsible for his actions, while another found him to be psychotic and suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. Ultimately, he was found to be sane and was convicted of his crimes.</p><h2>3. Were there any warning signs or red flags that could have indicated Breivik's intentions?</h2><p>There were several warning signs that may have indicated Breivik's intentions. He had a history of extremist and anti-immigrant views, as well as a fascination with violence and weapons. He also wrote a manifesto outlining his beliefs and plans for the attack, which he shared with others before carrying out the attack.</p><h2>4. Did Breivik have any accomplices in his attack?</h2><p>Breivik acted alone in his attack, and no evidence has been found to suggest that he had any accomplices. However, he did have a network of like-minded individuals who shared his extremist views and may have influenced him in some way.</p><h2>5. How has Breivik's attack and his motivations impacted society?</h2><p>Breivik's attack has had a significant impact on society, particularly in Norway. It sparked debates about immigration, extremism, and mental health. It also led to changes in security measures and increased awareness of the potential for lone wolf attacks. Breivik's motivations and actions have also raised questions about the role of the internet in radicalizing individuals and the responsibility of individuals and organizations in promoting extremist ideologies.</p>

1. Who influenced Breivik to commit his heinous act?

Anders Behring Breivik was a self-proclaimed right-wing extremist who committed a mass shooting and bombing in Norway in 2011. He claimed to have been influenced by a variety of individuals and organizations, including the Knights Templar, a supposed secret society that he claimed to be a member of. He also cited anti-Islamic bloggers and writers as well as historical figures such as Winston Churchill and Charles Martel as influences.

2. Did Breivik have any mental health issues that may have influenced his actions?

Breivik underwent several psychiatric evaluations, with conflicting results. One evaluation found him to be sane and criminally responsible for his actions, while another found him to be psychotic and suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. Ultimately, he was found to be sane and was convicted of his crimes.

3. Were there any warning signs or red flags that could have indicated Breivik's intentions?

There were several warning signs that may have indicated Breivik's intentions. He had a history of extremist and anti-immigrant views, as well as a fascination with violence and weapons. He also wrote a manifesto outlining his beliefs and plans for the attack, which he shared with others before carrying out the attack.

4. Did Breivik have any accomplices in his attack?

Breivik acted alone in his attack, and no evidence has been found to suggest that he had any accomplices. However, he did have a network of like-minded individuals who shared his extremist views and may have influenced him in some way.

5. How has Breivik's attack and his motivations impacted society?

Breivik's attack has had a significant impact on society, particularly in Norway. It sparked debates about immigration, extremism, and mental health. It also led to changes in security measures and increased awareness of the potential for lone wolf attacks. Breivik's motivations and actions have also raised questions about the role of the internet in radicalizing individuals and the responsibility of individuals and organizations in promoting extremist ideologies.

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