The French Betrayal of America

[kat]

"The French Betrayal of America"

An interesting Op Ed:

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/20887.htm

March 16, 2004 -- MANY Americans are convinced even today that the war in Iraq was all about oil. And they're right - but oil was the key for French President Jacques Chirac, not for the United States.

Read the whole thing...

 

[Zero]

Nonsense.

 

[member 5645]

Originally posted by Zero
Nonsense.

Why? Both Russia and France had public contracts setup to go in effect the moment sanctions were dropped.

As for the US's interest in oil, there is none when it comes to the oil itself. IT means nothing. We don't need the oil. However, others do, and spreading that oil out amongst countries, as well as being a key buyer in it means keeping up with the geopolitical power.
This is also the only reason we don't change infrastructures right now to an alternate fuel.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Nonsense.

An informative reply as always, Zero. What would we do without your highly educated responses.[zz)]

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by phatmonky
Why?

First off, France didn't "betray" America...

Secondly, showing that France has interest in Iraqi oil doesn't prove that America doesn't also want that oil.

Thirdly, it is a NY Post opinion piece, which means it has little value when compared to reality.

 

[confutatis]

That's a good explanation as to why France opposed the war in Iraq, but the opposition from so many other countries still needs to be explained. I'd like to offer a few:

- Germany supported Saddam because, as the American media has it, he's the new Hitler. Heil Hussein!
- Russia was against the war because they smuggled Iraqi oil to send bored American tycoons to space.
- Canadians didn't want to invade Iraq because they were too busy planning their annual invasion of Florida.

The world gets really complicated when you try to divide it into people who are on your side and people who are on the side of your enemies. It doesn't seem to occur to some Americans that people do not like to go to war, especially when, in their perception, there's no reason whatsoever for it.

 

[Zero]

Actually, most of teh world disagrees with America that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, or terrorism in general, which the evidence so far backs up. I know it is hard for some people to see the issues as different, but most of us do. Afghanistan was one thing, Iraq was a completely different animal.

 

[Nereid]

Originally posted by phatmonky
*SNIP

As for the US's interest in oil, there is none when it comes to the oil itself. IT means nothing. We don't need the oil. However, others do, and spreading that oil out amongst countries, as well as being a key buyer in it means keeping up with the geopolitical power.
This is also the only reason we don't change infrastructures right now to an alternate fuel.

So I guess you can show us that the US' oil needs for the next 25 years or so can be met with what, oil from Saudi Arabia? From Siberia? North Korea (thanks kat)?? From the Alaskan wilderness??

AFAIK, the country #1 in a league table of those whose oil needs are both large and growing fast is China. Hmm, how many troops did they send to topple Saddam?

Finally, remind me again where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from? And why that regime has managed to get away with its tacit support for the ideologues behind the terrorists? After all, didn't the US government do a great deal to oppose the Soviet Union, its proxies, and the ideologues behind 'communism'? Why is W*****ism any different??

 

[Pergatory]

Originally posted by Zero
Actually, most of teh world disagrees with America that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, or terrorism in general, which the evidence so far backs up. I know it is hard for some people to see the issues as different, but most of us do. Afghanistan was one thing, Iraq was a completely different animal.

I love how this always gets brought up, is it an attempt to change the topic? Maybe I'm blind but I didn't see anyone referencing the 9/11 or terrorism even in the most vague sense.

Saddam Hussein was a corrupt dictator and a war criminal. His oppression of his people is only now beginning to be fully realized now that he is gone. It is obvious that war was the only way to remove him from his throne. Personally, I don't care if we did it for the oil, the media, or to appeal to our own cold-blooded thirst for destruction. The fact is that it needed to happen a long time ago and I'm glad we finally did it. I just wish we would pay this much attention to some of the other countries that need help like Iraq does. Oh yah... wish we would get the hell out of Iraq now that he's gone too... that's what really pisses me off.

As far as the actual topic of this thread.. I agree with Zero that France isn't necessarily doing anything unspeakable here. I mean this is just politics people. Dirty under-the-counter stuff like this happens every time you blink your eyes. Right now at this very moment, Rumsfield is taking a bath in C-notes he got out of the same war that cost France their alleged under-the-counter arrangement. If we're going to point the finger at France we have to clean up our own government first.

 

[Nereid]

Pergatory wrote: Saddam Hussein was a corrupt dictator and a war criminal. His oppression of his people is only now beginning to be fully realized now that he is gone. It is obvious that war was the only way to remove him from his throne. Personally, I don't care if we did it for the oil, the media, or to appeal to our own cold-blooded thirst for destruction. The fact is that it needed to happen a long time ago and I'm glad we finally did it. I just wish we would pay this much attention to some of the other countries that need help like Iraq does.

So many dictators, so few bullets .

What's the calculation to be made about who to depose and who to coddle? Scope - time, geography - of the slaughter? Why leave the Congo alone for so long? 'Illegality' of occupation? Why reward Sharon then? Sheer gall in ignoring a democratic election? Off to Yangon we go!

 

[FZ+]

Saddam Hussein was a corrupt dictator and a war criminal. His oppression of his people is only now beginning to be fully realized now that he is gone. It is obvious that war was the only way to remove him from his throne. Personally, I don't care if we did it for the oil, the media, or to appeal to our own cold-blooded thirst for destruction. The fact is that it needed to happen a long time ago and I'm glad we finally did it. I just wish we would pay this much attention to some of the other countries that need help like Iraq does. Oh yah... wish we would get the hell out of Iraq now that he's gone too... that's what really pisses me off.

Now is not a long time ago. Now is a long time after most of the alleged crimes took place, at a point where human rights organisations, who had been campaigning about Iraq for years are advising against the war. Now is a time where the majority of human rights organisations are concluding that the situation in Iraq is stablising, getting better, and diplomacy was the key, not demolition. The Neo-cons have essentially hijacked the point, and wiped out the actuality of what their sources say. The graveyards they parade were often from before the first gulf war, and as a result of the invasion, brand new graveyards are being dug.

Get out now that he is gone? Are you MAD? If the US had opted for the (unwise) path of demolition and rebuilding, you don't just stop half way. You need to stablise the situation as soon as you can, and deploy a government the people of Iraq are compatible with, and restablish Iraq's links to the rest of the world - and that includes France, Germany and so on, or else leave Iraq as a parasite of the US for many, many years to come.

Why? Both Russia and France had public contracts setup to go in effect the moment sanctions were dropped.

There are two ways to end sanctions - peacefully, and through war. One of the first things the US did when they went in was to petition for the removal of sanctions.

An informative reply as always, Zero. What would we do without your highly educated responses.

I see that talking about the complexities of politics in terms of "betrayal" is very very sophisticated. Didn't you tell us some time ago how you ignore media opinions and instead collate factual sources to make your own conclusions? Practice what you preach.

 

[Njorl]

The French government acting in its own selfish interests is no more a betrayal than the US government acting in its own selfish interest. If the French wanted to invade Saudi Arabia and overthrow its unelected and oppressive ruler, would we support them? Just because the despot the French were in bed with was more odious than the despots we are in bed with does not make them betrayers.

And yes, the French were in bed with Saddam. They and the Russians did not just want to avert war, they had been working ardently to keep him in power since the first Gulf war.

Njorl

 

[GENIERE]

Not only were the French in bed with Saddam, it seems the UN was also. It is suspected that Saddam’s oil money now lines the pockets of high-ranking UN officials, perhaps even Annan since he made the appointments. The UN does not allow external audits, obviously that needs to be changed.

 

[Nereid]

GENIERE wrote: It is suspected that Saddam’s oil money now lines the pockets of high-ranking UN officials, perhaps even Annan since he made the appointments.

By whom? Do these 'high-ranking UN officials' include US citizens? Have the suspicions been reported to the relevant police authorities?

 

[GENIERE]

I choose a liberal news source, The Guardian, but there’s a lot more out there.

“The so-called oil list has already caused worldwide embarrassment, with allegations made against prominent people and companies in France, Russia, Switzerland and South Africa, as well as employees at the UN.”

 

[member 5645]

Originally posted by Nereid
By whom? Do these 'high-ranking UN officials' include US citizens? Have the suspicions been reported to the relevant police authorities?

Well for starters, there's the billions missing from the oil for food program.
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=70ED90E5-64E9-4400-A68FED5D3E38FF94

All signs point to the French and UN corruption. All money was funneled through a French bank, which even right now, holds the balance of about 17 billion. Oddly, no one sees the conflict of interest between a private bank holding billions, someone* drawing interest for the longer the money is tied up and held there.
* I say someone, because even more oddly, all information about the interest created, where it's going, and the exact figures in the bank are unknown to anyone but the bank itself (and the privy few that are in on the scheme). You can't control the money flow, have money go missing, and then claim to not know what happened (well you can, but you can go talk to Enron's previous leaders about what happens then)

 

[Nereid]

Originally posted by GENIERE
I choose a liberal news source, The Guardian, but there’s a lot more out there.

“The so-called oil list has already caused worldwide embarrassment, with allegations made against prominent people and companies in France, Russia, Switzerland and South Africa, as well as employees at the UN.”

Do these "employees at the UN" include US citizens?

AFAIK, the behaviour to which the reports in GENIERE's and phatmonky's links allude is illegal in the US. Has Eliot Spitzer begun investigations? What about John Ashcroft?

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Nereid
Do these "employees at the UN" include US citizens?

AFAIK, the behaviour to which the reports in GENIERE's and phatmonky's links allude is illegal in the US. Has Eliot Spitzer begun investigations? What about John Ashcroft?

1. I don't believe it's limited to UN employees
2. The list follows
3. There appears to be all types of connections and cross connections including connections to Scott Ritter and Kofi Annan's son.
4. This could make Enron look mild.
5. As far as the United States it's being investigated by a Congressional oversight committee and the General Accounting Office. The UN is saying it will also investigate but..it seems to me that is a bit like trusting Enron to investigate itself..
6. I almost think..not absolutely sure that it is going before the security council to decide how to best proceed with an investigation..maybe today or tomorrow.

7. Here is the list that set it all in motion:

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA16404

This report reviews the Saddam oil vouchers affair, in two parts:

The Saddam Oil Vouchers Affair, Part I:

A. Complete List of Recipients of Oil Vouchers (in alphabetical order by country)

(All numbers for barrels of oil unless indicated otherwise)

All names on the list were transliterated from the Arabic. Although every effort was made to be precise, some inaccuracy is inevitable.


Algeria
1. Abd Al-Majid Al-Attar 6 million
2. Abd Al-Qadr bin Mussa 6 million

Austria
1. Hans Kogler 2 million
2. Arab-Austrian Committee 1 million

Bangladesh
1. Mawlana Abd Al-Manan 43.2 million

Bahrain
1. Kadhem Al-Darazi Company 2 million
2. Ali Al-Muslim Company 3 million
3. Concrete Contracting Company 2 million

Belarus
1. Liberal Party 6 million
2. Belarus Communist Party 7 tons
3. Belminal Company 14.2 million
4. Belfarm Company 4 million
5. Chief of the President's Bureau 6 million
6. Lada Company 2 million

Brazil

1. Fuad Sirhan 10 million
2. October 8 Movement (Chavez) 4.5 million

Canada
1. Arthur Millholland 9.6 million

Bulgaria
1. The Socialist Party of Bulgaria 12 million
2. Arak Paul 2 million

Chad
1.Chad Foreign Minister 3 million

China
1. Mr. Juan 39.1 million
2. Noresco 17.5 million
3. Zank Ronk 13 million
4. Biorg 13.5 million
5. South Holken 1 million

Cyprus
1. Muhammad Al-Hawny 17 million
2. Nefta Petroleum 13.2 million
3. Continental 1 million

Egypt
1. Ancom Co. (Muhammad Shatta)14 million
2. Abd Al-Adham Manaf 6 million
3. Khaled Gamal Abd Al-Nasser 16.5 million
4. Imad Al-Jilda 14 million
5. Muhammad Salah 7 million
6. Muhammad Hilmi 4.5 million
7. Arab Company limited 6 million
8. Nile & Euphrates Co. 3 million
9. Mahmoud Mahdi Al-Ma'sarawi 7 million
10. Al-Hami Bashanti Foundation 2 million
11.International MultaqaFoundation 2 million

 

[kat]

France
1. ADDAX 8.3 million
2. Trafigura Patrick Maugein 25 million
3. Michel Grimard 17 million
4. Franco-Iraqi Friendship 15.1 million
5. Ayix 47.2 million
6. Charles Pasqua 12 million
7. Alias Al-Gharzali 14.6 million
8. IOTC (Claude Caspert) 4 million
9. Jean-Bernard Merimee 3 million
10. Jean-Bernard Merimee 8 million
11. de Souza 11 million

Hungary
1. Hungarian Interest Party 4.7 million

India
1. Biham Singh 5.5 million
2. Indian Congress Party 4 million

Indonesia
1. Daughter of President Sukarno 2 million
2. Hawa Atlantic 2 million
3. Makram Hakim 3 million
4. Megawati 8 million
5. Muhammad Amin Rayyis 4 million
6. Natuna Oil 2 million

Ireland
1. Riyadh Al-Taher 11 million
2. Afro-Eastern 2 million

Italy
1. Roberto Formigoni 24.5 million
2. Salvatore Nicotra 20 million
3. Mr. Feloni 6.5 million
4. Father Benjamin 4.5 million
5. West Petrol 2 tons
6. Hetralk 2 tons
7. IPS (Italian Petroleum Assoc.) 1 million

Jordan
1. Leith Shbeilat 15.5 million
2. Fakhri Qa'war 6 million
3. Grand Resource 2 million
4. Al-Rashid International (Ahmad Al-Bashir) 9 million
5. Fawwaz Zuraiqat 6 million
6. Salem Al-Na'*** 3 million
7. Zayyad Al-Ragheb 7 million
8. Mashhur Haditha 4 million
9. Shaker bin Zayd 6.5 million
10. Muhammad Saleh Al-Hourani 4 million
11. Tojan Faisal 3 million
12. Ministry of Energy (Jordan) 5 million
13. Zayyad Yaghmour 2 million
14. Wamidh Hussein 1 million

Kenya
1. Muhammad Othman Sa'id 10.5 million

Lebanon
2. Fadi Al-Alamiyya (International)2 million
3. Haitham Seidani 2 million
4. Plant [Blunt?] Petroleum 1 million
5. George Tarkhaynan 7 million
6. President Lehoud's son 4.5 million
7. Ali To'ma 1 million
8. Al-Hilal Co. (Adnan Al-Hanani) 1 million
9. International Company for Trade and Investment 3 million
10. Faisal Darniqa 3 million
11. Fim Oil Company 1 million
12. Najah Wakim 3 million
13. Osama Ma'rouf 3 million
14. Zuhair Al-Khatib 3.5 million

Libya

1. Shukri Ghanem 6 million

Malaysia
1. Fa'iq Ahmad Sharif 12.5 million
2. Pitmall Company 4 million
3. Trader Babar 4 million
4. Mastek (Fa'iq Ahmad Sharif0 57 million
5. Hawala 7 million

Myanmar Federation [Burma]
1. Minister of Forestry 5 million

Morocco
1. Abdallah Al-Sallawi 7.2 million
2. Nadhel Al-Hashemi 5.7 million
3. Muhammad Al-Basri 4.5 million

Netherlands
1. Sy Bolt 3 million

Nigeria
1. Hayson 7.2 million
2. Raz Company 7.5 million
3. A.A.G. Company (Nigerian Ambassador) 1 million
4. Comeback 4 million

Oman
1. Shanfari Group 5 million

Palestine
1. Abu Al-Abbas 11.5 million
2. Abdullah Al-Hourani 8 million
3. Wafa Tawfiq Sa'igh 3.5 million
4. Liberation Organization 4 million
5. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine 5 million
6. Liberation Organization (Political Bureau) 5 million

Pakistan
1. Oil & Gas Group 10 tons
2. Abu Abd Al-Rahman 11.5 tons
3. Sayyed Azzaz 1 ton

Panama
1. Sevan 11.5 million

Philippines
1. Philippines Production Group 3 million

Qatar
1. Hamad bin Ali Al-Thani 14 million
2. The Duleimy Group 4 million
3. Gulf Petroleum 2 million
4. Petrolina Oil 2 million
5. Petroleum Wells Maintenance 2 million

Romania
1. Delf Aderlink 1 million
2. Romanian Labor Party 5.5 million

Russia
1. The Russian State 1.366 billion
2. Zarubesneft 174.5 million
3. Russneft Ampex 86.9 million (for the office of the president, including 1 million to Mr. Tetzenko, Russian Ambassador to Baghdad)
4. Communist Party Companies 137 million
5. Amircom (Unity Party/ Ministry for Emergencies) 57 million
6. Mishinoimport 1 million
7. Al-Fayco (Russian Foreign Ministry) 128.8 million
8. Yatumin (Russian Foreign Ministry) 30.1 million
9. Slavneft 25.5 million
10. Zan Gaz 49.1 million
11. Rosneft Company 35.5 million
12. Caspian Investment 8.5 million
13. Kamaneft Company 7.5 million
14. Gasprom 26 million
15. Tatneft 1 million
16. LUKoil 63 million
17. Surgut Neftegas 4 million
18. Siberia Oil & Gas company 1 million
19. Nafta Moscow Company 25.1 million
20. Onaco Company 22.2 million
21. Sidanco Company 21.2 million
22. Sibneft 8.1 million
23. Transneft 9 million
24. Yukos 2 million
25. Liberal Democratic Party (Zhirinovsky) 79.8 million
26. Peace and Unity Party 34 million (the list mentions party chairwoman Sazhi Umalatova)
27. Russian Committee of Solidarity with the People of Iraq 6.5 million (its chair, Sergei Rudasev is mentioned)
28. Russian Association for Solidarity with Iraq 12.5 million (its chair, [Zhorafilon] is listed)
29. Russneft-Gazexport 12.5 million
30. Uralinvest (Stroyev) 8.5 million
31. Moscow Science Academy 3.5 million
32. Romain (son of former ambassador to Baghdad) 19.7 million
33. Zarabsneft (Gobkin University) 3.5 million
34. Nordvest Group) 2 million
35. Zarbshneft & Gas (Mr. Hassan) 3 million (only one million delivered)
36. Soyuzneftgaz (Yuri Shafrannik) 25.5 million
37. Nikolayi Ryzhkov 13 million
38. Stroyneftgas 6 million
39. Akht Neft Company 4.5 million
40. Chechna Administration 2 million
41. 'Adel Al-Jablawi (I.N.M. Airways) 6 million
42. Khrozolit 5 million
43. Trader Nafta 3 million
44. Chief of the President's Bureau 5 million
45. Russian Orthodox Church 5 million
46. Russian National Democratic Party 3 million

Saudi Arabia
1. Najah Company 3 million
2. Asiss Company 2 million

Slovakia
1. Slovak Communist Party 1 million

South Africa
1. Imvume Management (Sandy Majali) 9 million
2. Tokyo Saxwele Holdings (MVL) 4 million
3. Montega 4 million
4. Omni Oil 4 million

Spain

1. Bassim Qaqish 17.5 million
2. Javier Robert 9.8 million
3. Ali Balutt 8.8 million

Sudan
1. Samasu 8 million
2. Petroleum Products Co. 2 tons
3. Oil Plus 2 tons

Switzerland
1. Media 2 million
2. Delta Service 2 million
3. Iblom 1 million
4. Sipol 1 million
5. Glencore 12 million
6. Lakia 2 million
7. Elkon [or Elcon] 23 million
8. Taurus 8 million
9. Petrogas 5 million
10. Finar [Holdings] 21 million
11. Napex Company 3 million

Syria
1. Awadh Ammura 18 million+
2. Beshara Nuri 12 million+
3. Ghassan Shallah 11 million
4. Muhammad Amar Nofel 3.5 million
5. Tamam Shehab 1 million
6. Hamida Na'na' 9 million+
7. Farras Mustapha Tlass 6 million
8. Salim Al-Toon 3.5 million
9. Lutfi Fawzi 2.5 million
10. Lid Guarantees 3.5 million
11. Ghassan Zacharia 6 million
12. Muhammad Ma'moun Al-Sab'i 4 million
13. Hassan Al-Kayal 2 million
14. Anwar Al-Aqqad 2 million

Thailand
1. Thai Rice Trader Jaiporn 1 million

Tunisia
1. Madex Petroleum 6.7 million
2. Farnaco 3.7 million
3. Maydor 4 million

Turkey
1. Zayn Al-Abideen Ardam 27 million+
2. Lutfi Dughan 1 million+
3. Muhammad Aslan 13 million
4. Techfen 15.5 million
5. KCK Company 1.5 million
6. Delta Petroleum 1 million
7. Sita 1 million
8. Ozia 2.5 million
9. Samir 2 million
10. Muhtashem 2 million
11. Maqdar Sarjeen 2 million

Ukraine
1. Social Democratic Party 8.5 million
2. Ukraine Communist Party 6 million
3. Energy Resources 2 million
4. Fazmash Ampex 2 million
5. Neftogas 8 million
6. Hugh Company (Sokolov) 5 million
7. Orshansky 4.5 million
8. Fideralty Torkovy 1 million
9. Trans Isko 1 million
10. The Ukranian House 1 million
11. F.T.D. 2 million
12. Socialist Party of Ukraine 2 million

United Arab Emirates
1. Fal Petrol 1.8 million
2. Ahmad Mani' Sa'id Al-Utaiba 11 million
3. Jewan Oil 7.5 million
4. Sultan bin Zayed Al-Nahyan 4 million
5. Al-Huda 22.9 million
6. Issa bin Zayed Al-Nahyan 5 million
7. Millenium 2 tons
8. Bony Fiol 1 ton

United Kingdom
1. George Galloway/Nawwaf Zuraiqat 19 million
2. Mujahideen Khalq 36.5 million

U.S.A.
1. Shaker Al-Khaffaji 7 million
2. Samir Vincent 10.5 million

Vietnam
1. Vinapco 1.2 million
2. Darlink Med 2 million
3. Vinafod 6 million
4. O.S.C. 2 tons

Yemen
1. Abd Al-Karim Al-Aryani 7.8 million
2. Tawfiq Abd Al-Raheem 1.5 million
3. Shaher Abd Al-Haq 7 million+

Yugoslavia

1. Socialist Party 22 million
2. Left Party 9.5 million
3. Italian Party 16 million
4. Kokostancha Party 9 million

 

[Njorl]

I don't want to jump to conclusions about this. A lot of people have an anti-UN agenda. It could easily be a case of convenient mis-interpretation of records.

However, if it is true, it is one of the most heinous international scandals in human history. Consider the consequences of this if it is true:

-The UN official administering the program resigned in protest because 4000-5000 Iraqi children were dying each month of issues related to malnutrition and lack of medical supplies.

-The UN issued a report of finding that there was an anomalous increase in the death rate of Iraqis of 90,000 (7500/month) per year during the program. The program was in place for 100 months. The people taking bribes were complicit in up to 750,000 murders.

-The use of sanctions has been completely discredited. No humanitarian provisions can possibly be accepted anymore. From now on, when faced with a dictator behaving unacceptably to the world at large, the choices are war and nothing.

The people taking these bribes were taking human lives on a massive scale. They have also made the world a more unstable place for at least a generation.

 

[FZ+]

Quoting a conservation news source:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...ml&sSheet=/portal/2004/03/14/ixportaltop.html

It is not known if the documents on which the list was based are authentic.

And there is a very large number of forged documents sloshing around.

A quiet reminder of previous such "breakthroughs".

He will be held by the US until all desired information is extracted from him. Already, as I write, information is becoming available proving his linkage to and his support of Al Quaida. Finding the whereabouts of WMD is now certain. I suspect the French and German leaders are dreading the prospect of his interrogation that will reveal their alliance with him.

[zz)]

 

[Zero]

Hmmmmm...a list from Israel-worshipping website...cute.

Seriously, though, stipulating that the list is accurate...so what? You're grasping here, people.

 

[Njorl]

Originally posted by Zero
Hmmmmm...a list from Israel-worshipping website...cute.

Seriously, though, stipulating that the list is accurate...so what? You're grasping here, people.

The list looks like it is just a list of customers. The question isn't the accuracy of the list, it is the accuracy of the charges. If the charges are false, and it is reasonable to assume they might be, those on the list have done nothing wrong. If the charges are true, also a reasonable possibility, then some or all on the list may have engaged in some of the most deadly corruption ever known.

The matter certainly warrants serious investigation. The attitude of the forensic accountants in the matter should be every bit as serious as the forensic pathologists examining mass graves in Iraq or ex-Yugoslavia. I had always just assumed the matter was just between Saddam Hussein and some black marketeers in Syria and Jordan. If it wasn't, we should know.

Njorl

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Njorl
The list looks like it is just a list of customers. The question isn't the accuracy of the list, it is the accuracy of the charges. If the charges are false, and it is reasonable to assume they might be, those on the list have done nothing wrong. If the charges are true, also a reasonable possibility, then some or all on the list may have engaged in some of the most deadly corruption ever known.

The matter certainly warrants serious investigation. The attitude of the forensic accountants in the matter should be every bit as serious as the forensic pathologists examining mass graves in Iraq or ex-Yugoslavia. I had always just assumed the matter was just between Saddam Hussein and some black marketeers in Syria and Jordan. If it wasn't, we should know.

Njorl

I specifically meant in regards to this thread, what is the relevance? For an example of what I would be looking for, you can draw a rather straight line between Halliburton and the White House. Where is the line between that list and the French government specifically? And don't tell me "campaign donor" and leave it at that, because all rich people donate to all politicians, it is a rule.

 

[Robert Zaleski]

"Say it isn't so, Kojo".

www.nationalreview.com/comment/rosett200403101819.asp[/URL] - 33k - Mar 18, 2004

 

[Zero]

Last chance...get on topic, or thread get locked.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Hmmmmm...a list from Israel-worshipping website...cute.

Seriously, though, stipulating that the list is accurate...so what? You're grasping here, people.

I know you're joking, sort of..but whether Memri loves jews or not is irrelevent. Their translations of articles from arabic media are known to be accurate and legitimate. Whether the Arabic Media has written an accurate piece is another story. BUT It's also the list that the U.N. and a multitude of other major news sources have been referencing.

I don't think anyone is "grasping" here. It's a very serious issue and as I mentioned above is now being brought before the security council in order to bring it before and independent investigation. Other countries are also investigating.
The AP has just posted a story on the http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAZ26L21SD.html

As for how this particular case effects france. I believe 2 of the men on the list are or were interior ministers, there is also some connection to Chiraq's son in law, Canadian oil companies and politicians. I think it will be awihle before it's all sorted out.

There's also the issue of the French Bank which I had come across a detailed explanation of the issues a few days ago but can't remember where I saw it..when I do I will post it. Here is a blurb from WSJ Read the whole article for a better picture.

To this end, he wrote a second letter to the U.N. secretariat on Feb. 1, this time addressed to Hans Correll, Under Secretary for Legal Affairs and Legal Counsel of the U.N., with a copy to British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. He catalogs questions on areas "which need urgent investigation," e.g. "Why did the U.N. approve oil contracts to non-end users?" His letter alleges that "not less than 10% was added to the value of all invoices to provide cash to Saddam . . . why was this not identified and prevented?" The letter also asks "What controls were in place to monitor BNP [the French bank] who handled the bulk of the LCs, the total value of which may have [been] in the region of $47 billion?"

The problem was not donations to political parties or politicians. One of the problems as I understood it were vouchers for the food for oil program were not used in the manner they were supposed to be, and in effect being given as payoffs and bribes.

 

[Zero]

Fine, we're done here.