Find a Patent Attorney Near Washington, DC & Baltimore, MD

In summary, the conversation involves an individual who has come up with a new invention and is looking for a patent attorney who would be willing to help file a series of patents and take a portion of the profits instead of a fee. They have also considered finding an unemployed or underemployed lawyer. However, it is mentioned that a patent agent may be a more affordable option. The conversation also touches on the importance of having a good business model and the potential difficulties of defending a patent without sufficient resources. It is also suggested that a patent may not be as useful for a small company and that selling the patent to a larger corporation may be a better option.
  • #1
cavemen
42
0
I know that the guy that used this user name not so long ago wrote some crazy stuff about invention process. I live in his house.

Well. I am an aeronautical engineer and I was turned into a repairman because of the crisis. I am still considered an engineer but I fix things around the half-empty company building with a former chemistry professor. So I came up with a gadget that I want to patent really cool new device. It may be a series of patents as I read in the books that I would have to file. A lot more than just a single provisional patent.

I also go to college in the evenings so i am a really busy man. I only have Saturdays off. I also don't have much money, since I am a repairman and I take expensive classes (loans, family, etc)
No initial capital whatsoever.

I am looking for a patent attorney that would be agree to help me file those series of patents and charge me a portion of my profits instead of demanding a fee from the beginning. Hopefully, near of Washington, DC or Baltimore, MD.

I heard that attorneys like that exist but I am in a doubt.

Also I don't want to deal with those small on-line law firms that promise to turn your invention into a product by midnight, since my BOSS HAD AN UNPLEASANT EXPERIENCE with such company a year ago and he lost the case.

My invention is not some perpetual motion machine or a flying saucer. It has a hell of a marketing potential.

Thanks for help.
 
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  • #2
One of your options is to find an unemployed/underemployed lawyer (law student / recent graduate, someone yet to become a lawyer), and talk them into your business model over breakfast/lunch/dinner.

I'm coming from this guy's experience: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125599860004295449.html
 
  • #3
A lawyer like that is not as concerned with his reputation of a honest lawyer so it does not look so safe.
But I'll still look.

Thanks.

I am sorry, I don't understand about the guy you are talking about.
I read the article.
I am not willing to spend the rest of my life going to courts like Professor Anspach.
 
  • #4
You may want to consider a patent agent instead. They cost a lot less than an attorney. Also, they know the legal process, and not necessarily the technical aspects of an invention.

Once can do a lot of research oneself, i.e., review of the state of the art to find out if any previous patent has a claim similar or the same as one's invention.

One's invention has to be 'new, useful and non-obvious'.
 
  • #5
I did research and I am doing research on this subject.
One big thing I had missed is the difference between patent agent and patent attorney.
Thanks for pointing that out.
 
  • #6
cavemen said:
I am looking for a patent attorney that would be agree to help me file those series of patents and charge me a portion of my profits instead of demanding a fee from the beginning. Hopefully, near of Washington, DC or Baltimore, MD.

I heard that attorneys like that exist but I am in a doubt.

My boyfriend is a patent attorney (you don't want him...based on what you've posted here, you can't afford him). If such an attorney as you do want exists, they are probably a hack. Attorneys are not in the business of marketing, just getting you a patent that you can defend, so would not take a case based on promise of profits (even a good product can be marketed badly). The patentability and marketability of an invention are two completely different things. Litigations might be taken on a contingency basis (i.e., if you have a patent and are suing someone for infringement and a firm thinks there is a good chance of a big payout on the lawsuit), but prosecutions generally are not.
 
  • #7
The first thing you need to do is prepare all of your drawings and descriptions. The process will help you make the determinations you've specified.

It will save you a lot of money in the long term. Don't involve an attorney until you're ready.
 
  • #8
I agree.
I got some information by bugging friends and coworkers at this point.
Maybe what one of my coworkers had offered me will work. I will ask him.

Thanks for help.
 
  • #9
One other thing. Other than for marketing purposes, having a patent is essentially useless for a small company outside of biotechnology. The problem is that patents are useless unless you have the resources to defend them, and for any non-trivial product, what you'll probably find if you get into a patent fight is that for every patent you accuse "big evil corporation" of infringing, you've probably infringed on a dozen. If you are company and your business model depends crucially on a patent, you will need vast amounts of capital to afford the lawyers to defend it.
 
  • #10
I am planning to sell my patent to a big corporation like that.
Make them pay me a something small from every 'MY' product sold.

Is this a good idea?
 
  • #11
cavemen said:
I am planning to sell my patent to a big corporation like that.
Make them pay me a something small from every 'MY' product sold.

Is this a good idea?
It's very unlikely. If they find a need for your patent, the deal will most likely be for you to sell it for a fixed sum.

In order for you to patent something, it has to be significantly different from previous patents. Many patent lawsuits have been won where it was proven that the current technogically was somehow extremely remotely related to some idea that could be shown to be vaguely gleened from an earlier patent, even if your product is significantly improved or different.
 
  • #12
Evo said:
It's very unlikely. If they find a need for your patent, the deal will most likely be for you to sell it for a fixed sum.

In order for you to patent something, it has to be significantly different from previous patents. Many patent lawsuits have been won where it was proven that the current technogically was somehow extremely remotely related to some idea that could be shown to be vaguely gleened from an earlier patent, even if your product is significantly improved or different.

I agree with your first point.

On your second, though, I'm accustomed to seeing the exact opposite: patents are granted and 'defended' (sufficiently defensible that the parties settle out of court) even when the invention fails the non-obviousness test in light of previous technology.
 
  • #13
cavemen said:
I am planning to sell my patent to a big corporation like that.
Make them pay me a something small from every 'MY' product sold.

Is this a good idea?

cavemen, this is not an area that I know much about...but do you have a prototype of this product? Just curious.
 
  • #14
twofish-quant said:
One other thing. Other than for marketing purposes, having a patent is essentially useless for a small company outside of biotechnology. The problem is that patents are useless unless you have the resources to defend them, and for any non-trivial product, what you'll probably find if you get into a patent fight is that for every patent you accuse "big evil corporation" of infringing, you've probably infringed on a dozen. If you are company and your business model depends crucially on a patent, you will need vast amounts of capital to afford the lawyers to defend it.
That's what people need patent attorneys for, to find the prior art they would miss and not even think about. But, that's also the patent examiner's job to ensure the patent doesn't infringe on anyone else's.

cavemen said:
I am planning to sell my patent to a big corporation like that.
Make them pay me a something small from every 'MY' product sold.

Is this a good idea?

You either sell all the patent rights for a lump sum, or you sell a license to use the product and retain the patent. And, if you can't afford a good patent attorney to get a rock solid patent, there's no point...if there's really money to be made on the product, the big corporation WILL hire their own attorneys to find every flaw in your patent and produce almost the same thing but just enough different to not infringe so you'll never see a dime.
 
  • #15
CRGreathouse said:
On your second, though, I'm accustomed to seeing the exact opposite: patents are granted and 'defended' (sufficiently defensible that the parties settle out of court) even when the invention fails the non-obviousness test in light of previous technology.
A recent huge case was the one Blackberry phones lost because someone that patented some small thing that RIM expanded on won in court and almost put Blackberry out of business.
 
  • #16
Evo said:
A recent huge case was the one Blackberry phones lost because someone that patented some small thing that RIM expanded on won in court and almost put Blackberry out of business.

Yes, that seems to support my position above.
 
  • #17
Lawyers cost money. I am pretty sure that the big corporation will not hire lawyers if that demands more money than just buying my patent from me.

Patent Office itself looks for the prior art.
 
  • #18
cavemen said:
Lawyers cost money. I am pretty sure that the big corporation will not hire lawyers if that demands more money than just buying my patent from me.
Big corporations already have lawyers on staff, they won't need to hire anyone.
 
  • #19
lisab said:
cavemen, this is not an area that I know much about...but do you have a prototype of this product? Just curious.

As Lisa inquired, do you have a prototype?
 
  • #20
cavemen said:
Lawyers cost money. I am pretty sure that the big corporation will not hire lawyers if that demands more money than just buying my patent from me.

QUOTE]

Check out the history of the birth of electronic TV, especially the fight between RCA and Philo T. Farnsworth. The book "The Last Lone inventor" is all about the battle and I think its a good quick read. Like Evo said, corporations already have a legal team in place and imo they are already on the payroll so the corporations are itching for a reason to make them earn their paychecks.
 
  • #21
Evo said:
Big corporations already have lawyers on staff, they won't need to hire anyone.

Exactly! The big corporations have in-house attorneys. And, if they think they'll make enough of a profit off the product, they'll have no qualms about even paying an outside attorney a little extra to ensure they get your invention in their terms, not yours, if you can't afford an attorney to represent you in negotiations.
 
  • #22
cavemen said:
Patent Office itself looks for the prior art.

There is an expectation of "due diligence" on the part of the inventor too. That is usually what they pay lawyers to handle, because if they have a lawyer representing them and the lawyer misses some important prior art, it is the law firm on the hook. If the inventor doesn't have a lawyer, and misses it, they are the one on the hook. The patent office may catch some very obvious claims, but they miss a lot too; it's not their job to do the search for you. That is the entire basis of patent litigation, when someone claims a patent infringes on prior art. It's NOT a situation you want to be in.
 
  • #23
I am not arguing that i don't need a lawyer.
I am getting one.
The way it works is: provisional patenting ->marketing ->hiring a lawyer and getting a full patent.

Requirements for provisional patents are pretty low compared to full patents.

Prior art is essential for filing a full patent.
 
  • #24
Thanks.
Not the prototype. I have a model made out of available material.
I will have more questions in the future.
 
  • #25
Evo said:
A recent huge case was the one Blackberry phones lost because someone that patented some small thing that RIM expanded on won in court and almost put Blackberry out of business.

It's not "someone." There are companies out there which are patent holding companies that consist of patents and some lawyers and they go an basically try to shakedown big companies for money. You aren't going to be able to do this unless you have several dozen patents and a team of lawyers.
 
  • #26
twofish-quant said:
It's not "someone." There are companies out there which are patent holding companies that consist of patents and some lawyers and they go an basically try to shakedown big companies for money. You aren't going to be able to do this unless you have several dozen patents and a team of lawyers.
Actually, it was a tiny unknown company and it was some small thing, and Blackberry dismissed it, thinking that they had no chance. The tiny company won.

I guess I will have to dig it up.
 
  • #27
cavemen said:
Lawyers cost money. I am pretty sure that the big corporation will not hire lawyers if that demands more money than just buying my patent from me.

Patent Office itself looks for the prior art.
One's application should include a review of prior art. Please read a patent in the class of one's invention.

The Patent Office will not do your work for you. They look to see if it has been done before, if it infringes on existing patents, meets the three criteria, and is technically sound.
 
  • #28
Sounds like you need to swim in the http://abc.go.com/shows/shark-tank/" [Broken]

I had a patent atty that wanted to help me develop my various ideas for a piece of the action. I don't use him anymore... too many chances to blow up my life. In my experience it helps to have a patent track record and products in market to entice a patent atty to do this with you. Still, it is an explosive mix of entrepreneurship and ego. I'd avoid it at all costs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #29
cavemen said:
I am not arguing that i don't need a lawyer.
I am getting one.
The way it works is: provisional patenting ->marketing ->hiring a lawyer and getting a full patent.

Requirements for provisional patents are pretty low compared to full patents.

Prior art is essential for filing a full patent.

Caveman, it's easy to see that you are a great believer in the power of the Patent. Many people think that once they get a Patent their worries are over. I have quite a few Patents. Most of my Patents are machine related. The average time it took to get a Patent was from 3 to 4 years. My last Patent was issued in the 1970's and the cost was about $7K.

Now the part you don't want to hear.

Only one of my Patents had any real value. It involved a plastic packaging concept and another company decided to manufacture and sell products that infringed on my Patent. My Patent had been assigned to the company I was working for. I called my Patent Attorney and told him of the situation. The Attorney's made lots of money (about $50 per page) arguing by registered mail. After about a year of that, we ended up in Federal Court. My Patent was very strong and the Judge (Judge Kennedy now on the U.S. Supreme Court) said that the infringement was clear to her and we could not waste her time with this matter. She told the lawyers to go in the other room and prepare the necessary papers that would admit fault and promise not to do it again. Each side was represented by 3 lawyers that day. The company I was working for paid the Patent Attorney fees and I never saw how much $$$$$$ was involved.

My Patent had been "Tested" in Federal Court. My Patent now had a real value on the open market.

There are two types of Patents. Broad Coverage and narrow Coverage. Narrow coverage is easy to get and usually not worth getting. Somebody copies your invention and makes a few slight changes and you can't do anything to stop what is happening. Broad Coverage is the best, and most difficult to get. If you have Broad Coverage for your invention, AND a good Patent Attorney, you have a pretty good chance of "defending" your Patent in Court.

About 20 years ago, I had a meeting with my Patent Attorney regarding a deposition. While we were waiting for something I asked him. "What's the standard fee for defending a Patent these days?" After I reminded him of how much business we had done over the years and I thought he could answer my question, he finally said "If it goes to Court, plan on starting around $100K"

IF you manage to get a Patent, it is very unlikely that anybody will pay anything for it unless it has been "tested". If you do not defend your Patent in Federal Court, the whole effort will have been for nothing.
 
  • #30
Wow. What are the odds that someone would resurrect a thread exactly 1 year to the date of the last posting?
 
  • #31
chemisttree said:
Wow. What are the odds that someone would resurrect a thread exactly 1 year to the date of the last posting?

It's not exactly 1 year in my time zone :tongue2:.
 
  • #32
I read a lot. I write very little. I have seen the topic of Patents discussed many times over the years. It's obvious that very few people have any first hand experience with Patents. I expect that the author of this thread has long since moved on, however there are many others who have interest in the subject matter. The Patent Office has transferred enforcement (which includes authentication) over to the Federal Court System. For at least the past 20 years, Patents are considered less than valid until they are "tested" in Court. If somebody has a really good (high value) Patent, it's possible for somebody else to simply outspend them with attorney fees until the owner of the Patent just gives up. Most people, when confronted with the facts, are far less thrilled with the prospect of getting their very own patent.
 

1. How do I find a patent attorney near Washington, DC and Baltimore, MD?

There are a few different ways to find a patent attorney in this area. One option is to search online for patent attorneys in Washington, DC and Baltimore, MD. You can also ask for recommendations from other scientists, colleagues, or friends who have worked with a patent attorney in the area. Additionally, you can contact your local bar association for a list of registered patent attorneys in the area.

2. What qualifications should I look for in a patent attorney?

When looking for a patent attorney, it is important to consider their qualifications and experience. Look for an attorney who is registered with the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) and has a technical background or experience in your field of invention. It is also helpful to read reviews and ask for references from previous clients.

3. How much does it cost to hire a patent attorney?

The cost of hiring a patent attorney can vary depending on the complexity of your invention and the attorney's experience and hourly rate. Some attorneys may also offer flat fees for certain services. It is important to discuss fees and payment options with the attorney before hiring them to ensure you understand the cost of their services.

4. What is the process for obtaining a patent with a patent attorney?

The process for obtaining a patent with a patent attorney typically involves an initial consultation to discuss your invention and determine if it is eligible for a patent. The attorney will then conduct a patent search to ensure your invention is novel and not already patented. If your invention is eligible, the attorney will help you prepare and file a patent application with the USPTO. The process can take several years and may involve responding to office actions from the USPTO.

5. Can a patent attorney help me with patent litigation?

Yes, a patent attorney can assist with patent litigation. Patent attorneys are trained in intellectual property law and can help you defend your patent rights in court. They can also help you navigate any legal disputes or challenges to your patent. However, it is important to note that not all patent attorneys specialize in litigation, so it is important to discuss this with the attorney before hiring them.

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