Do Other Animals Experience Ghosts?

[kauai_diver]

Hi all! Newbie here just joined this great website! I tell you it really gets my imagination running wild!

Anyway my question is regarding ghosts/spirits. Let's say they do exist, why is it that no one talks, sees, hears about, or investigates ghosts or spirits who many not be human? Such as dogs, monkeys, cockroaches etc... Basically why are humans so special? I don't think we are the only conscious sentient beings on the planet.

What do you all think?

 

[selfAdjoint]

I think this is just speciesism. You can see that in all the paraphysics literature there is a tendency to be over-impressed with the power and significance of mind: MIND reading, MENTAL telepathy, PSYCHOkinesis and so on. And only looking for ghosts of people with (human) minds is just more of the same.

Years ago there was a physicist who did experiments to look for paraphysical effects in cockroaches and fertilized chicken eggs. And ESP people laughed at him! They just assumed that paraphysics was a sole possession of human beings with their wonderful brains and minds.

But the physicist held that paraphysics was a law of nature arising from the quantum level, and therefore it should be found in simple creatures, and indeed might be easier to see where there was less complexity to blur the experiment. I think the physicist's name was Schmidt, does anyone else recall these experiments.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by kauai_diver
Hi all! Newbie here just joined this great website! I tell you it really gets my imagination running wild!

Anyway my question is regarding ghosts/spirits. Let's say they do exist, why is it that no one talks, sees, hears about, or investigates ghosts or spirits who many not be human? Such as dogs, monkeys, cockroaches etc... Basically why are humans so special? I don't think we are the only conscious sentient beings on the planet.

What do you all think?

Your assumption is wrong. "They" do not exist - and any such otherwise is false, and explains why people always see human ghosts - they're not real.

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by kauai_diver
Hi all! Newbie here just joined this great website! I tell you it really gets my imagination running wild!

Anyway my question is regarding ghosts/spirits. Let's say they do exist, why is it that no one talks, sees, hears about, or investigates ghosts or spirits who many not be human? Such as dogs, monkeys, cockroaches etc... Basically why are humans so special? I don't think we are the only conscious sentient beings on the planet.

What do you all think?

Welcome to the forums :)

 

[Dave]

It's probably because they don't exist, well, at least I don't have any reason to believe they do.

 

[kauai_diver]

There was an interesting topic I read a while back (when I was a simple lurker) about how the brain works. Someone posted a link about neurosurgory and some new neuro theories post 90's.

One was this: The brain activity with all its complexities will never be understood, until we find the "driver". All theories and writings about the brain are well documented. But how can the "self" or "self consciousness" be explained. Why am I me? I think therefore I am... why, how? explain that to me scientifically, PLEASE!

I'll find the link.. I didnt understand all of it, but basically it went something like: " all brain activity can be explained as a reaction" All memories,emotions,ideas, can be understood , but who is the "driver" what is the "source".

At the lowest lowest lowest level where does an "idea" just happen to pop into your head. Yes memories and emotions and education come into play here, but what starts off the "explosion" or "train of thought" to produce a result?

There is something driving our minds... That something may have todo with the LOWEST level of particle physics.

As my sig implies I am just a simpleton trying to find a scientific explanation of why we are all conscious, why we all have egos, why we all have emotions, what happens after our physical bodies die, etc.

I'll find that link i was talking about... wish i bookmarked it... explained things more elequently then i did.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by kauai_diver
What do you all think?

I think you presented a good psychological argument for why ghosts do NOT exist.

 

[TENYEARS]

kauai_diver, you have a capacity as great as anyone here there or anywhere. Continue with your line of questioning, but do not expect an answer here. Your questions are very real so continue with the line of thinking you are using. Do not stop. When it seems illogical throw it out because it is. When it doesn't and you don't understand put it to the side until you do. Don't give up and no one can ever stop you but yourself.

 

[kauai_diver]

Thanks TENYEARS for those words of encouragement.

I do find conciousness and self awareness a fascinating topic. And I wonder why on a physical level why self awareness/consciousness can't happen more than once (ie. after you pass on)? If the univerise is infinite and you believe in entropy why can't what makes you "you" happen again?

When do you become self aware? 3, 4 years old? Do you still have a soul/self if you are severely brain damaged? Stuff like that really gets me going. I don't like all that mystical stuff you see and hear about, I like the scientific approach and there doesn't seem to be much information about it.

To those non believers out there, don't just dismiss this and say its a dead end... It can't be. If we spend time and money someday we will find more answers (also maybe more questions), we must look deeper!

Maybe someday in the far far future religion and science may be one and the same regarding this topic.

Sorry for veering off a bit from the main subject (ie ghosts/spirits) but most of you probably know where I'm headed and what I want to know more about.

Thanks.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by kauai_diver
Hi all! Newbie here just joined this great website! I tell you it really gets my imagination running wild!

Anyway my question is regarding ghosts/spirits. Let's say they do exist, why is it that no one talks, sees, hears about, or investigates ghosts or spirits who many not be human? Such as dogs, monkeys, cockroaches etc... Basically why are humans so special? I don't think we are the only conscious sentient beings on the planet.

What do you all think?

I find interesting that so many people need to believe that this stuff is not true - perhaps more numerous than those who need to believe these things are true. Even though you stated your assumption clearly, people just have to get in their shots.

I think you touch on the difference between religion and mysticism. It is interesting that the Catholics [I'm an X] have a patron saint for animals, but that they also believe that animals have no soul. Without meaning to imply anything about my own beliefs, many people have reported apparitions of ghost animals. Also, without drawing any conclusions at to what I saw, I did witness a very strange episode with my own animals once. I have never known quite what to make of this.

We have many pets; just cats and dogs now, but we have had up to 13 if you include the 4 goats and the horse. A normal part of having so many beasties is the inevitable trip to the vet for a bye bye shot. This is always hard and sad, but it comes with the turf. One day a few years ago we had to take one of our cats named Dirt to see Vicki the vet for his farewell shot. He was going into congestive heart failure and such. After doing this one is often left with a sense of the animal still being present. This would seem to be a normal reaction to losing a friend of 10 or 13 years. What got my attention though was the behavior of another one of our cats - Einstein.

Einstein is 13 and I have never seen him or any other cat do anything like this in my forty years of having pets. After returning from the trip with Dirt to the vet, we observed Einestein chasing something madly about the house. He appeared to be chasing a bug that hovered about a foot or two above his head. I assumed this since he was looking up, reaching, and jumping at something just above him. I watched him chase this thing all over the house for several minutes. Then, he came dashing through the living room in hot pursuit of his prey which then apparently went right through a closed door. Einstein, while visually focused on this invisible thing above his head, ran right into the door at full speed. He then paced madly until I let him out. He ran off into the darkness so I could no longer see what was happening.

I swear every word is true. I was and am at a loss to explain this strange behavior. Who knows? If such things are possible then this might explain what I witnessed. I’m not leaping to conclusions, but this whole episode was just too too strange.

 

[TENYEARS]

You will not have to wait for science for the answer here. I see the tone of your words and the nature of the argument. Focus bust your chops step back, refocus bust yourchops step back, refocus bustyour chops step back... You know what you have to do to answer this.

As for your statement about a new understanding regarding these issues recognized by all. It is right around the bend. I had a Type B vision last summer regarding this. It will occur and sooner than you think.

 

[TENYEARS]

Ivan, awesome story, but to bad it is not a story. It just happens to be the truth, is'nt it.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
Ivan, awesome story, but to bad it is not a story. It just happens to be the truth, is'nt it.

I always tell it like it is because that's all that there is. Why waste time with lies? There are too many interesting truths to be sought.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
You will not have to wait for science for the answer here. I see the tone of your words and the nature of the argument. Focus bust your chops step back, refocus bust yourchops step back, refocus bustyour chops step back... You know what you have to do to answer this.

Have Einstein talk with the animal psychic?

As for your statement about a new understanding regarding these issues recognized by all. It is right around the bend. I had a Type B vision last summer regarding this. It will occur and sooner than you think.

Whoops, I lost you here...unless you are referring to another post about relocation?

 

[TENYEARS]

This first reply was for kauai_diver(you posted as I was replying), the second was for you. By the way dogs also experience this.

 

[username]

I swear every word is true. I was and am at a loss to explain this strange behavior. Who knows? If such things are possible then this might explain what I witnessed. I’m not leaping to conclusions, but this whole episode was just too too strange.

Cats go mad and have alziemers (very badly spelt!@?) to0.

Im not some sort of pessamist and like to thik i have an open mind but i do think your post sounds like you are leaoping to unreasonable conclusions.

EDIT: Removed drunken nonsense

 

[kauai_diver]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
You will not have to wait for science for the answer here. I see the tone of your words and the nature of the argument. Focus bust your chops step back, refocus bust yourchops step back, refocus bustyour chops step back... You know what you have to do to answer this.

As for your statement about a new understanding regarding these issues recognized by all. It is right around the bend. I had a Type B vision last summer regarding this. It will occur and sooner than you think.

Tenyears, you write as if you are holding something back. Please enlighten us some with your ideas... even if you're worried about getting flamed ;)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by username
Cats go mad and have alziemers (very badly spelt!@?) to0.

Im not some sort of pessamist and like to thik i have an open mind but i do think your post sounds like you are leaoping to unreasonable conclusions.

Yes I expected to get hung with this one. Your comments are benign enough but I was waiting for the big hammers.

I will have to admit that for the first time in my life I did consider such a possibility. I was compelled by the high strangeness and the apparent uniqueness of this event. Einstein is still with us and he has been normal ever since. Would I argue that my cat was chasing a ghost? No; nor would I list this as landmark evidence of such. But, this was a very strange episode that was highly coincidental to the events of the day. To conclude that nothing strange was happening is no more logical than to conclude otherwise.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
This first reply was for kauai_diver(you posted as I was replying), the second was for you.

That would explain the confusion.

By the way dogs also experience this.

You have heard stories like this before?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by selfAdjoint
Years ago there was a physicist who did experiments to look for paraphysical effects in cockroaches and fertilized chicken eggs. And ESP people laughed at him! They just assumed that paraphysics was a sole possession of human beings with their wonderful brains and minds.

But the physicist held that paraphysics was a law of nature arising from the quantum level, and therefore it should be found in simple creatures, and indeed might be easier to see where there was less complexity to blur the experiment. I think the physicist's name was Schmidt, does anyone else recall these experiments.

I didn't spot anything with a postive spin.

http://www.thegline.com/thought/2001/10-11-2001.htm

I have read some interesting reports that come from Stanford [I think...I will have to do a little digging to come up with the correct reference]. This team is claiming repeatable precognitive events. They go on to assign this ability to a primitive survival mechanism. As reported, a person watches a TV screen that displays pictures at a rate of about once every two or three seconds. The watchers reactions are monitored for certain stress indicators; i.e. skin resistance, brainwaves activity... I'm not sure about the key indicators here. Most of the pictures seen are calming, pleasant scenes of ocean views, rocky streams, cute kitties, etc. At random intervals, repulsive pictures e.g. terrible traffic accidents, industrial accidents, crime scenes and the like are thrown into the mix. The claim is that repeatedly, the person will react to the gory pictures about 1/3 of a second before they are shown. The lead scientist argues this is an evolved survival mechanism. For example, the ability to anticipate a surprise attack yields a maximum advantage at some critical time. We will have to see if this claim can be substantiated by others. I believe this is fairly recent work. I have only heard a little about it so far.

 

[TENYEARS]

kauai_diver, I cannot enlighten you, but things that I understand are posted here on this forum in a few places. I like the thinking going on in this thread because it does not make a decision.



"A decision is what make when you do not understand." Me

 

[username]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking

We have many pets; just cats and dogs now, but we have had up to 13 if you include the 4 goats and the horse. A normal part of having so many beasties is the inevitable trip to the vet for a bye bye shot. This is always hard and sad, but it comes with the turf. One day a few years ago we had to take one of our cats named Dirt to see Vicki the vet for his farewell shot. He was going into congestive heart failure and such. After doing this one is often left with a sense of the animal still being present. This would seem to be a normal reaction to losing a friend of 10 or 13 years. What got my attention though was the behavior of another one of our cats - Einstein.

Einstein is 13 and I have never seen him or any other cat do anything like this in my forty years of having pets. After returning from the trip with Dirt to the vet, we observed Einestein chasing something madly about the house. He appeared to be chasing a bug that hovered about a foot or two above his head. I assumed this since he was looking up, reaching, and jumping at something just above him. I watched him chase this thing all over the house for several minutes. Then, he came dashing through the living room in hot pursuit of his prey which then apparently went right through a closed door. Einstein, while visually focused on this invisible thing above his head, ran right into the door at full speed. He then paced madly until I let him out. He ran off into the darkness so I could no longer see what was happening.

I swear every word is true. I was and am at a loss to explain this strange behavior. Who knows? If such things are possible then this might explain what I witnessed. I’m not leaping to conclusions, but this whole episode was just too too strange.

Maybe kitty was bored?

 

[username]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
I didn't spot anything with a postive spin.

http://www.thegline.com/thought/2001/10-11-2001.htm

I have read some interesting reports that come from Stanford [I think...I will have to do a little digging to come up with the correct reference]. This team is claiming repeatable precognitive events. They go on to assign this ability to a primitive survival mechanism. As reported, a person watches a TV screen that displays pictures at a rate of about once every two or three seconds. The watchers reactions are monitored for certain stress indicators; i.e. skin resistance, brainwaves activity... I'm not sure about the key indicators here. Most of the pictures seen are calming, pleasant scenes of ocean views, rocky streams, cute kitties, etc. At random intervals, repulsive pictures e.g. terrible traffic accidents, industrial accidents, crime scenes and the like are thrown into the mix. The claim is that repeatedly, the person will react to the gory pictures about 1/3 of a second before they are shown. The lead scientist argues this is an evolved survival mechanism. For example, the ability to anticipate a surprise attack yields a maximum advantage at some critical time. We will have to see if this claim can be substantiated by others. I believe this is fairly recent work. I have only heard a little about it so far.

Sounds like an interesting line of experimentation.
If precognition does exist it figures it would play an very important role in natural selection. Do you know of any other experiments along this line of thought ?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by username
Maybe kitty was bored?

Except that now all he wants to do is to watch John Edwards the TV medium.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by username
Sounds like an interesting line of experimentation.
If precognition does exist it figures it would play an very important role in natural selection. Do you know of any other experiments along this line of thought ?

No. In fact I haven't even followed up on this one yet. If there was really anything to this I am sure we will be hearing more.

 

[nevagil]

my uncertainty

I usually confine myself to facts and act like an agnostic most my long life, but one experience about 20 yrs ago still has me wondering.
I dropped off a loved pet of 13 yrs to be put to sleep at the vet, and when leaving in my car about the time the dog may of been put to sleep I felt a flush rise up through my body, from feet to head and then leave with me suddenly crying.
Probably that was a unexpected rush of emotions for me, an old war veteran, but it also seemed to fit a suspiciously stretched wild idea that maybe the pet dog was saying goodbye to me in some strange way.
A lot of things in life don't make sense and my website of art and humor is often motivated by my curiousities in these areas. Unfortunately, science during my lifetime hasn't gotten much closer to answering these questions. Just gullible fanatics on one side and closed minded doubters on the other side.

Gil of someplace called www.surrealcity.com and the high desert and sometimes humid spots.

 

[username]

precognition

If precognition exists and is a result (or manifests itself) of a survival mechanism probably the best place to look for it is in something close to the bottom of the food chain. Maybe even an insect like a silverfish/cockroach or something?

btw: the rabbit picture is interesting

 

[Doc]

Ivan, I don't know what you had done to your cat at the vet, but it is possible that something he may have been given affected his vision. Maybe he 'saw something' in his upper field of vision that naturally wasn't there. But the cat doesn't know this, he though it was a grand oppurtunity to chase something he had never seen before. He was maybe so preoccupied with it that he ran into the door. I have seen cats in similar situations where they seem so concentrated on something that they become unaware of some of their surroundings. They can get pretty crazy compared to the seemingly lazy, laid back beings that they usually are.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Doc
Ivan, I don't know what you had done to your cat at the vet, but it is possible that something he may have been given affected his vision. Maybe he 'saw something' in his upper field of vision that naturally wasn't there. But the cat doesn't know this, he though it was a grand oppurtunity to chase something he had never seen before. He was maybe so preoccupied with it that he ran into the door. I have seen cats in similar situations where they seem so concentrated on something that they become unaware of some of their surroundings. They can get pretty crazy compared to the seemingly lazy, laid back beings that they usually are.

Sorry, I think my story got a little twisted. The cat that went to the vet never came home [in mortal form at least ]. This was THE trip to the vet for our beloved Mr. Dirt. The other cat was at home - Einstein. He never left home but acted so very strangely right after we returned from having Dirt put down.

I don't mean to argue that no other explanations exist. But IMHO, to ignore these events as not even potentially significant is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty. These events were very striking. I have had cats my entire life and I am pretty familiar with normal cat behavior. I have had Einstein for almost 13 years and this was a completely unique episode. He has never acted like this at any other time.

For years people would catch their cats staring wildly at the walls. For years people thought that cats were imagining things or hallucinating. I read several explanations that focused on cat brain structures, and optical effects causing false images, and some suggestions were made that cats get a little nuts as they age. Someone finally realized that the cats can somehow track mice and rats in the wall. I don’t know if this is by some infrared effect, or if this is by sound, but they weren't hallucinating; they were just two steps ahead of us.