Zeh: Basics of Basics of Thermodynamics, yet really confused

In summary, Zeh's equation would prohibit a hot object from cooling to room temperature, since internal entropy would decrease in that scenario. Zeh defined the heat flux as passing inward to the system, which would require the internal entropy increase or remain constant. Something else appears sloppy- 'S' refers to a bounded system, which is then composed of internal S_int and external S_ext components? and the "exterior" is not infinite due to the quote from Resnick about the total system being bounded...
  • #1
nonequilibrium
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Hello, I was reading Zeh's "The Physical Basis of the Direction of Time" but I just can't understand him in chapter 1 on something really easy: the definition of the phenomenological entropy + second law. Here is a screenshot I took from the googlebooks edition:

attachment.php?attachmentid=28166&stc=1&d=1284260935.gif


Those two lines of formulas really confuse me, for several reasons. The most obvious one:

He says [tex]\left( \frac{dS}{dt} \right)_{int} \geq 0[/tex]

But I thought the 2nd law clearly stated [tex]\frac{dS}{dt} \right \geq 0[/tex]
After all: a system in connection to a reservoir doesn't have to go up in entropy.

Can anybody clear this up for me?
 

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  • #2
Agreed; Zeh should have [itex]\frac{dS}{dt}\geq 0[/itex]. As written, his equation would prohibit a hot object from cooling to room temperature, since internal entropy would decrease in that scenario.
 
  • #3
Zeh defined the heat flux as passing inward to the system, which would require the internal entropy increase or remain constant.

Something else appears sloppy- 'S' refers to a bounded system, which is then composed of internal S_int and external S_ext components?
 
  • #4
Andy Resnick said:
Zeh defined the heat flux as passing inward to the system, which would require the internal entropy increase or remain constant.

That's a good point, but wouldn't one just take that as a sign convention - that positive [itex]dQ[/itex] implies inward heat transfer - rather than a restriction that [itex]dQ[/itex] remain positive? It doesn't make much sense to define your thermodynamics framework based on systems that can only gain heat. :confused:
 
  • #5
Agreed, there's a lot in the blurb that does not make sense. Maybe it's covered elsewhere in the book...
 
  • #6
Hm, not really covered elsewhere no (it's from the beginning of chapter 3, which I've read now, and it's the only one talking about classical thermodynamics). Oh well, I'm happy that at least I'm not the only one confused. Another thing that is weird, is that if dQ is positive if heat is going in the "interior", then I'd say dS_ext = -dQ/T (although not even that could be correct, because the "exterior" is not infinite due to the quote from Resnick about the total system being bounded...). Very weird situation.
 

1. What is thermodynamics?

Thermodynamics is the branch of science that deals with the study of energy and its transformation from one form to another.

2. What are the basics of thermodynamics?

The basics of thermodynamics include the laws of thermodynamics, which describe the relationship between energy, work, and heat, as well as concepts such as entropy and enthalpy.

3. Why is thermodynamics important?

Thermodynamics is important because it helps us understand and predict how energy behaves in various systems, from simple heat engines to complex biological processes. It also has practical applications in fields such as engineering and chemistry.

4. How does thermodynamics relate to other branches of science?

Thermodynamics is closely related to other branches of science such as physics, chemistry, and engineering. It provides a foundation for understanding energy transfer and conversion in these fields.

5. What can I learn from "Zeh: Basics of Thermodynamics, yet really confused"?

"Zeh: Basics of Thermodynamics, yet really confused" is a book that aims to explain the fundamentals of thermodynamics in a clear and concise manner. By reading this book, you can gain a better understanding of the basic concepts and principles of thermodynamics and how they apply in real-world situations.

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