New Reply

General Relativity: Prove that Four-Vector is 0

 
Share Thread Thread Tools
Feb21-13, 01:26 PM   #18
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member

General Relativity: Prove that Four-Vector is 0


Quote by Dick View Post
I don't think that's very useful. The point is that (assuming this is special relativity where the metric tensor, ##g_{ab}## is constant), that ##U^i U_i=g^{ab} U_a U_b=-c^2##. Take the ##\frac{d}{d \tau}## of both sides and use the product rule and the symmetry of ##g^{ab}##.
Yes. After further consideration, I agree. In my defense, I was assuming that this proof had to be done under the assumption that it is not SR. That makes the problem much more complicated, and requires you to prove that the covariant derivative of the metric tensor is zero. But, in any event, the approach I had recommended would not have worked. For SR, I too would have recommended the same approach that you described. Sorry for any confusion I might have caused.

Chet
 
Feb21-13, 01:28 PM   #19
 
I'd like to take a moment while I'm struggling through this problem to thank you guys for helping and guiding me.

Thank you so much!
 
Feb21-13, 02:13 PM   #20
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Homework Helper Homework Help
Science Advisor Science Advisor
Retired Staff Staff Emeritus
Since the notation is apparently confusing you, start by expanding ##U_iU^i = -c^2## to get
$$-U_0 U_0 + U_1 U_1 + U_2 U_2 + U_3 U_3 = -c^2.$$ Differentiate that, and then see how you could get the same result using the summation convention and without having to expand everything out.
 
Feb21-13, 04:07 PM   #21
 
Ok, I've resolved some issues with my understanding of index notations:

Ui = [itex]\frac{dx^i}{d\tau}[/itex] [eq 1]

Such that writing out component form:

Ui = [itex]\frac{dx^0}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dx^1}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dx^2}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dx^3}{d\tau}[/itex]

Where U1,2,3 would correspond to [x,y,z] or [r,[itex]\theta[/itex], [itex]\varphi[/itex]] or [i,j,k]

and

x0 = ct = c[itex]\gamma\tau[/itex]

If in rest frame:


UiUi = -c2


from [eq 1] this becomes:


Ui [itex]\frac{dx^i}{d\tau}[/itex] = -c2


taking [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex]


Ui [itex]\frac{d^2x^i}{d\tau^2}[/itex] = -[itex]\frac{dc^2}{d\tau}[/itex]


In rest frame, it follows that Ui with index i =1,2,3 are 0 so:


U0 [itex]\frac{d^2c\gamma\tau}{d\tau^2}[/itex] = 0

U0 0 = 0


since U0 is just an index:


0 = 0


I really hope I got that right. If not, *sigh*
 
Feb21-13, 04:27 PM   #22
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Homework Helper Homework Help
Science Advisor Science Advisor
Retired Staff Staff Emeritus
Quote by Ryomega View Post
Ok, I've resolved some issues with my understanding of index notations:

Ui = [itex]\frac{dx^i}{d\tau}[/itex] [eq 1]

Such that writing out component form:

Ui = [itex]\frac{dx^0}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dx^1}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dx^2}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dx^3}{d\tau}[/itex]
This isn't correct. There's no implied summation. Equation 1 is a compact way of writing the four equations
\begin{align*}
U^0 &= \frac{dx^0}{d\tau} \\
U^1 &= \frac{dx^1}{d\tau} \\
U^2 &= \frac{dx^2}{d\tau} \\
U^3 &= \frac{dx^3}{d\tau} \\
\end{align*} On the other hand, in the expression ##U_a U^a = -c^2##, the index a is repeated, so there is a summation so that ##U_a U^a = U_0 U^0 + U_1 U^1 + U_2 U^2 + U_3 U^3##.

Can you tell us how to lower an index? That is, how do you get ##U_a## from ##U^b## and the metric tensor ##\eta_{ab}##?
 
Feb21-13, 04:44 PM   #23
 
Ah yes, I see where I went wrong on [eq 1]. I was coming from the convention that:

Vector U = Uaea

where ea can represent [i,j,k] [x,y,z] and in case of tangents, it can represent partial derivatives of correspondent components.

I forgot to include that, now a sum is implied and [eq 1] would be correct.


Yes, I do know how to lower and raise indices (just covered in class)


Ua = gabUb

or

Ua = gabUb


where gab and gab are metric and inverse to one another
 
Feb21-13, 06:28 PM   #24
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Homework Helper Homework Help
Science Advisor Science Advisor
Retired Staff Staff Emeritus
OK, so you have ##U^aU^a = g_{ab}U^bU^a##. What do you get when you differentiate ##g_{ab}U^bU^a## with respect to ##\tau##? Just ignore the fact that it's being summed for now and apply the product rule.
 
Mar14-13, 10:29 AM   #25
 
Alright, it took me a while but here's what I got:

UiUi = 1

[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex] (UiUi) = 0

chain rule:[itex]\frac{d}{dx}[/itex] f(x)g(x) = f(x)g'(x)+ f'(x) g(x)

Ui[itex]\frac{dU^i}{d\tau}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{dU_i}{d\tau}[/itex] Ui = 0 [EQ1]

Raising and lowering indices:

Ui = gkiUk

Ui = gniUn

Making these substitutions [EQ1] becomes:

gkiUk[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](gniUn) +[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex] (gkiUk)gniUn = 0

since g has no dependence on tau, it can be taken out:

gkigniUk[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](Un) +gkigniUn[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex] (Uk) = 0

from definition product of gki gni is the kroecker delta function: [itex]\delta[/itex]nk so that:

[itex]\delta[/itex]nk Uk [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](Un) + [itex]\delta[/itex]nk Un[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex] (Uk) = 0

from definition of kroenicker delta function. Let n=k so that [itex]\delta[/itex]kk = 1

(1) Uk [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](Uk) + (1) Uk [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](Uk) = 0

let k = i

Ui [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](Ui) + Ui [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}[/itex](Ui) = 0

So my question is...what next?

Sorry for taking so long, midterms and all.
 
Mar14-13, 10:39 AM   #26

Homework Helper 2012
 
Recognitions:
Homework Helper Homework Help
Science Advisor Science Advisor
Don't raise and lower both of them. Just do one, so you get ##U_i \frac{d U^i}{d \tau} + U_i \frac{d U^i}{d \tau} = 0##. Now what?
 
Mar14-13, 04:06 PM   #27
 
That would give me:

2Ui[itex]\frac{dU^i}{d\tau}[/itex] = 0

And that would be the proof. The identity Ui[itex]\frac{dU^i}{ds}[/itex] = 0
Similarly, identity Ui[itex]\frac{dU^i}{d\tau}[/itex] would be zero
 
New Reply

Tags
four-vector, general relativity, notation, prove that
Thread Tools


Similar Threads for: General Relativity: Prove that Four-Vector is 0
Thread Forum Replies
Prove that every non-zero vector in V is a maximal vector Calculus & Beyond Homework 0
General Relativity: Prove symmetry of Einstein tensor Advanced Physics Homework 8
General Relativity - Riemann Tensor and Killing Vector Identity Advanced Physics Homework 4
How much is Special Relativity a needed foundation of General Relativity Special & General Relativity 97
Prove that 4 vector potential is really a 4 vector? Special & General Relativity 59