Understanding Countability of Set L: A Confusing Point

In summary, the conversation is discussing the proof that the indexed set L is countable. The function g, which maps L to the set of rational numbers, is shown to be injective but it is unclear if it is also surjective. However, it is known that a finite mapping that is injective must have a finite range. Therefore, it can be concluded that the range of g is countable, and thus L is bijectively equivalent to a subset of the countable set Q. This proves that L is countable.
  • #1
Bachelier
376
0
I don't understand this point:

Given the open set E = U_(a in L) I_a. Union of open intervals
We're showing this is countable.

WTS is that indexed set L is countable.

Set g: L---> Q (rationals) because Q is dense then every interval meets Q.
a---> q_a

this is 1-1. But here's where I get confused:

The conclusion is: Hence L is bijectively equivalent to a subset of Q and hence is countab.

I understand the fact that a subset of countable set is countable. But g codomain is Q. Should I restrict it to some Q_a in Q and show that g is invertible. Hence bij.
We only proved g is 1-1. Where did the bij. argument come from.

Thanks guys
 
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  • #2
This is just a guess, but a bijection from a countable set to a uncountable set can still be bijective but not onto.

Im guessing that you if you show that the function is not onto, then with the property of the bijection, then the range of the function is countable.
 
  • #3
chiro said:
This is just a guess, but a bijection from a countable set to a uncountable set can still be bijective but not onto.

Im guessing that you if you show that the function is not onto, then with the property of the bijection, then the range of the function is countable.

Yeah but the only thing known about the function "g" is that it is injective.
It sure is not surjective on Q although this latter is countable.
 
  • #4
any ideas?
 
  • #5
I haven't done enough pure math to formulate what I mean precisely in mathematical language but intuitively if you have a 1-1 between domain and range then if domain is countable then range is countable since if you have finite domain you have finite range.

Surely there is a way of saying if you have finite domain and mapping is 1-1 then range must be finite. Only things I can think of is using cardinality or maybe the union of the sets in the range (something like if f(A) = B then union of range is union f(A) over A which implies union (B) over rationals which is subset of rationals (prove that all function values are rational) and since each is disjoint (because of 1-1) the size of the set is the number of elements which is size of L).

I'm sorry I can't put it into the "theorem/proof" kind of way but it is a fairly intuitive result that a finite mapping that is 1-1 must have a finite range.
 

1. What is the definition of countability?

Countability is a concept in mathematics that refers to the ability to assign a unique numerical value to the elements of a set. In other words, a set is countable if its elements can be counted and labeled with positive integers.

2. What is the difference between countable and uncountable sets?

A countable set has a finite number of elements or can be put into a one-to-one correspondence with the set of natural numbers. An uncountable set, on the other hand, has an infinite number of elements and cannot be put into a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers.

3. How do you determine the countability of a set L?

The countability of a set L can be determined by examining its elements and determining if they can be labeled with positive integers in a one-to-one correspondence. If so, the set is countable. If not, it is uncountable.

4. What is the significance of understanding the countability of set L?

Understanding the countability of set L is important in various areas of mathematics, including set theory, analysis, and topology. It helps to classify different types of sets and aids in proving theorems and solving problems.

5. Can a set be both countable and uncountable?

No, a set cannot be both countable and uncountable. A set is either one or the other, depending on its elements and their properties. However, some sets can be both finite and infinite, which may cause confusion for some people.

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