Signing a Rent Agreement: Is There a Trick to Making it Invalid?

  • Thread starter Monique
  • Start date
In summary, Rhody has a contract that has some discrepancies, but the main issue is that it was drawn up by a lawyer and may be invalid.
  • #1
Monique
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Can someone give a word of advice? I've signed a rent agreement, but now it turns out that the contract is a bit strange. The letter in the contract is defined by elements of both the male and female residents, but it is made to look like the female is the letter:

Ms "male name and initials"
"e-mail address of the female"

Then the contract is signed by the male (at least, the signature matches one that I found online).

What is going on here, is this a trick to make the contract invalid?
 
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  • #2
You are renting a room from someone? Or to someone?

I do not think that the mistake in title should be of consequence as long as the name is the full and proper name of the signatory and should not be confused with anyone else. I would also assume that one needn't use their own e-mail address for where they ought to be contacted so that should not make a difference either.

To be on the safe side though you should probably have a new contract drawn up properly.
 
  • #3
Going to rent an apartment from someone (a lawyer).

It is indeed the full name of the signatory, but it is made to look as if the female partner is the one letting the apartment. It is often heard that people get out of law suits based on some nitty gritty details, I get the feeling this 'mistake' was made on purpose. Indeed I'm going to ask for a new contract to be drawn up. There were more shady diversions that would cost me my legal rights, but I've already found work arounds for those.
 
  • #4
In my (thankfully) limited experience with contracts, if both parties are willingly entering into an agreement then simple changes can be easily agreed to, written directly on the contract, and initialed by both parties. If you are not comfortable with what is potentially a minor typo, the other party should have no problem clarifying/correcting the names.

Good luck!
 
  • #5
Cross out and initialize the parts you don't like. Put in the correct info. Hand it back.

A contract is a two-way agreement.

If they have a problem with your mods, the onus is on them to come back to you.
 
  • #6
Thanks, I'll see how they react. When something is crossed out, does the initial need to be next to that change or is an initial on the bottom of the page enough? A change was made, but the initial was only put on the bottom of the page (as is required on all the pages of the contract). That made me uncomfortable, since it doesn't appear to be right.
 
  • #7
Monique said:
Thanks, I'll see how they react. When something is crossed out, does the initial need to be next to that change or is an initial on the bottom of the page enough? A change was made, but the initial was only put on the bottom of the page (as is required on all the pages of the contract). That made me uncomfortable, since it doesn't appear to be right.
Monique,

I wouldn't be concerned either but when you said you are renting from a lawyer, a big red flag went up. I believe you are doing the right thing by being especially careful because we all know how sleezy lawyers can be. I am not saying this one is. Better to err on the side of caution. I agree with Dave, and I would expect that if multiple changes were made to items on a page, each would be crossed out (to keep original intent), then new words, numbers, etc... would be redlined in and then you would initial and circle each entry.

I would expect that the lawyer or his designatee to take the redlined contract and either:

a: Initial and circle their initials next your redlines to show concurrence

or

b: Amend the contract with redlines incorporated, and give you a clean copy to review, and if all looks good, to sign.

If the lawyer balks at this I would say to take your business elsewhere. Then again, he may be just fine with it. You are wise to be careful though. Good luck.

Rhody...
 
  • #8
rhody said:
Monique,

I wouldn't be concerned either but when you said you are renting from a lawyer, a big red flag went up.
I know, the broker who is the mediator in this all replied to my earlier inquiries to the contract "the owner is a lawyer, he wouldn't put illegal things in the contract".

Well, I know for a fact that things in there are far from legal. From my side these items are not legally binding, because I know what my rights are.

I did run into a trap by signing a supplement that contains a wrong date, this would undermine my legal position completely. I was so pissed off when I found out. Since that date is still in the future, I can go to a notary office and have the proper current date placed upon the supplement. Yes, it's stupid of me not to sign the supplement with the current date, but since it was a supplement I thought the date was the same as on the contract that I already reviewed. A lesson to always have your guards up.
 
  • #9
Monique said:
Going to rent an apartment from someone (a lawyer).

It is indeed the full name of the signatory, but it is made to look as if the female partner is the one letting the apartment. It is often heard that people get out of law suits based on some nitty gritty details, I get the feeling this 'mistake' was made on purpose. Indeed I'm going to ask for a new contract to be drawn up. There were more shady diversions that would cost me my legal rights, but I've already found work arounds for those.

From what I understand he would have to actually dispute that he signed the contract at all which he could theoretically do any way. The mistakes could perhaps aid in such a claim but I think it would be a hard argument after you move in and start paying rent unless he has fabricated an alternate document.

Even oral contracts can be binding if the two parties both agree it exists. As long as he actually acknowledges signing the contract the minor mistake should not be a problem. Still better to be on the safe side. And while you are examining said safe side and are thinking he may be intentionally sabotaging the contract you may want to consider if he would try claiming that he never signed the contract.
 
  • #10
Monique said:
"the owner is a lawyer, he wouldn't put illegal things in the contract".

ROFL.

How do you know layer is lying? He is writing or his lips are moving.

I did run into a trap by signing a supplement that contains a wrong date, this would undermine my legal position completely. I was so pissed off when I found out.

At this moment I am ready to believe none of the things you are mentioning is just a random coincidence. I think I would walk away and cancel the idea of renting this particular appt. But that's just me.
 
  • #11
Borek said:
At this moment I am ready to believe none of the things you are mentioning is just a random coincidence. I think I would walk away and cancel the idea of renting this particular appt. But that's just me.
Oh I agree, but I am already caught in the web! Walking away would mean that I paid the broker a significant amount of money for nothing, if there would have been a way out without losing the money I would have done it.

Right now it is better to put up with this underground warfare and hope that the time I will stay there will be enjoyable, the apartment is a significant improvement in living conditions. Next time around I'll know to get the basics in writing before trusting a broker, how this all started.
 
  • #12
Well where I live tenants have rights clearly drawn out. You should look into them because normally they really protect you from being screwed over by a snake landlord.

It does not matter what is in the contract really, if it breaks the tenants rights then it is a void part of the contract. A good example is pets, where I live the landlord can NOT say you're not allowed pets unless the pets cause significant troubles for the landlord or other tenants or it's dangerous or it damages the property. (so just saying 'I don't like dogs is not good enough) However, MANY landlords will include this in the contract but since it's against the tenants rights the tenant can bring in a pet whenever they feel like it.
 
  • #13
Monique said:
Thanks, I'll see how they react. When something is crossed out, does the initial need to be next to that change or is an initial on the bottom of the page enough? A change was made, but the initial was only put on the bottom of the page (as is required on all the pages of the contract). That made me uncomfortable, since it doesn't appear to be right.
Initials should to be next to each change.
 
  • #14
DaveC426913 said:
Initials should to be next to each change.
Thanks, that makes sense. Another trap.

Acetone said:
Well where I live tenants have rights clearly drawn out. You should look into them because normally they really protect you from being screwed over by a snake landlord.

It does not matter what is in the contract really, if it breaks the tenants rights then it is a void part of the contract.
Same here, the contract actually literally says that I waive all my rights as a tenant. Haha, I thought that was really funny coming from a lawyer. There is no way that I can waive my tenant rights even when I sign for it in a contract.

The snake landlord did screw me with the future-dated document, he knows that the document is not valid when it is signed before the rent period has started. Fortunately I know that as well.
 
  • #15
There is still a chance that nothing bad is going on.
For myself I prefer to give people the advantage of the doubt until proven otherwise.

There is a chance the broker or the wife drew up the contract, who may not be skilled at all at drawing up contracts.
Furthermore the broker (or the wife) could easily have made mistakes.
The lawyer (if he is that, since apparently it's only an uncareful broker who says so) may simply not care enough about a "small-time" rent-agreement to carefully go over the contract.

If I were in your position, feeling uncomfortable, I'd write up the contract again in a rectified form that I'm comfortable with.
Oh, and I'd add a line mentioning that it makes any previous contract invalid.

I'd make a copy and sign both.
Go to the owner, explain the situation, and ask him to sign both as well.
Give him one copy and keep the other (the original!)
Finally rip up any previous versions of the contract in his presence to avoid confusion in the future about which contract is the valid one, and ask him to do the same.

I'm pretty sure that any well-meaning person would prefer that both parties are satisfied with the agreement.
If there is any sleaziness involved, it's best to find out as early as possible, so you can take the initiative.
I believe you have a strong position since you already paid rent and he accepted the rent, implying you do have a contract.
Even is there is sleaziness involved, he'd agree to modify the contract.Edit: of course, for a few minor typos you can also correct it, copy it, and put your and his initial to each correction on both copies.
Keep the original with the original signatures.
 
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  • #16
Monique said:
Can someone give a word of advice? I've signed a rent agreement, but now it turns out that the contract is a bit strange. The letter in the contract is defined by elements of both the male and female residents, but it is made to look like the female is the letter:

Ms "male name and initials"
"e-mail address of the female"

Then the contract is signed by the male (at least, the signature matches one that I found online).

What is going on here, is this a trick to make the contract invalid?

No. It's just poorly crafted. Little details like gender, or even signing your name in the date block are not material to the nature of the contract itself and will not invalidate it. It would still be enforceable in court.
 
  • #17
Monique said:
Same here, the contract actually literally says that I waive all my rights as a tenant. Haha, I thought that was really funny coming from a lawyer. There is no way that I can waive my tenant rights even when I sign for it in a contract.

Things like this are BS. The trivial stuff, such as "Ms" instead of "Mr", etc, won't have any impact.

And, some of those things could just be mistakes. That happens, even in contracts written by lawyers - or, more likely, in contracts written by the lawyer's office staff and signed by the lawyer, who, being a lawyer and understanding the importance of reading a document before signing it, surely must have read it thoroughly - or not.

Gather enough paperwork from a lawyer and you'll find plenty of mistakes. The meeting scheduled for 1:00 AM instead of 1:00 PM is merely humorous. The office staff that helpfully inserts things that seem to be missing can be extremely aggravating at a minimum and also can be quite revealing as to the character of your lawyer (some lawyers don't like to file corrections that have to be signed by a judge that they often appear before, since they feel it degrades their credibility).
 
  • #18
I like Serena said:
There is still a chance that nothing bad is going on.
For myself I prefer to give people the advantage of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Well, it has already been proven on other points :wink: I do think they could be very nice people to get along with, as long as there is no legal dispute.
I'm pretty sure that any well-meaning person would prefer that both parties are satisfied with the agreement.
If there is any sleaziness involved, it's best to find out as early as possible, so you can take the initiative.
I believe you have a strong position since you already paid rent and he accepted the rent, implying you do have a contract.
Even is there is sleaziness involved, he'd agree to modify the contract.Edit: of course, for a few minor typos you can also correct it, copy it, and put your and his initial to each correction on both copies.
Keep the original with the original signatures.
The rent actually hasn't started yet. Also, I don't have a contract with original signatures: I've requested that they sign another copy for my administration, but they've not complied yet. An excellent opportunity for a rectification.

DoggerDan said:
No. It's just poorly crafted. Little details like gender, or even signing your name in the date block are not material to the nature of the contract itself and will not invalidate it. It would still be enforceable in court.
Thanks!

BobG said:
Things like this are BS. The trivial stuff, such as "Ms" instead of "Mr", etc, won't have any impact.

And, some of those things could just be mistakes.
Indeed, it's the e-mail address that made me think otherwise, but from the responses that doesn't appear to be a problem.

Actually, my current rent situation is also strange. Again here the person renting out the apartment is the female partner of the male owner. At the time it didn't raise alarm bells, but landing in the same situation made me think twice. Especially knowing the character of my current landlord. A nice guy who's always there, but when you run into trouble with him (hasn't happened to me) he'll say:

"You're going to move out and it's your choice how you'll do that: through the stairway or out the window" :smile: If you don't choose for the stairway he'll call some guys to help you out the window. That's how it goes.
 
  • #19
Ugh, I called the housing broker and they have no idea who signed the contract and who is who (and they don't care to find out and inform me as well).

They do claim to know that the couple is married and shares all goods, but how would they know if they don't even know that the female is not the person on the contract: she doesn't even carry that last name!

I don't like brokers, they live up to their reputation of being lazy and deceitful.
 
  • #20
Monique,

At the very least when this is all said and done, report your broker to: http://www.nationalrealtorsdirectory.com/realestatelicensing.html" [Broken]. Your complaint may seem minor, but enough complaints from enough honest folk like yourself will help prevent this behavior from continuing. What a schmuck.

Rhody...
 
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  • #21
Monique said:
Ugh, I called the housing broker and they have no idea who signed the contract and who is who (and they don't care to find out and inform me as well).

They do claim to know that the couple is married and shares all goods, but how would they know if they don't even know that the female is not the person on the contract: she doesn't even carry that last name!

I don't like brokers, they live up to their reputation of being lazy and deceitful.

It's a good thing your contract is not with the broker then. :)

But is it a nice couple?
 
  • #22
rhody said:
Monique,

At the very least when this is all said and done, report your broker to: http://www.nationalrealtorsdirectory.com/realestatelicensing.html" [Broken]. Your complaint may seem minor, but enough complaints from enough honest folk like yourself will help prevent this behavior from continuing. What a schmuck.

Rhody...
She's not in the United States.
 
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  • #23
I like Serena said:
It's a good thing your contract is not with the broker then. :)
Definitely! Actually, they won another Oscar today:

I called to inform about the contract, because I still need to get a version signed in ink. The first broker I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about: all contracts are (supposed to be) signed in duplicate. I was transferred to the second broker, again: he didn't know what I was talking about. I get transferred to the last broker, she gets mad at me: she tells me that I agreed to not receiving a version signed in ink. Then she tells me that her colleagues will testify that I agreed not to receive that version, these are the two colleagues that just told me that they didn't have a clue what I was talking about!
But is it a nice couple?
Haven't met them yet, I do like to think they'll be nice :smile:
 
  • #24
Monique said:
Definitely! Actually, they won another Oscar today:

I called to inform about the contract, because I still need to get a version signed in ink. The first broker I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about: all contracts are (supposed to be) signed in duplicate. I was transferred to the second broker, again: he didn't know what I was talking about. I get transferred to the last broker, she gets mad at me: she tells me that I agreed to not receiving a version signed in ink. Then she tells me that her colleagues will testify that I agreed not to receive that version, these are the two colleagues that just told me that they didn't have a clue what I was talking about!

Yes, apparently the brokers do live up to the expectations. :wink:


Monique said:
Haven't met them yet, I do like to think they'll be nice :smile:

So what's next?
 
  • #25
I like Serena said:
So what's next?
There's a meeting planned, wait and see..
 
  • #26
rhody said:
Monique,

At the very least when this is all said and done, report your broker to: http://www.nationalrealtorsdirectory.com/realestatelicensing.html" [Broken]. Your complaint may seem minor, but enough complaints from enough honest folk like yourself will help prevent this behavior from continuing. What a schmuck.

Rhody...

Evo said:
She's not in the United States.

Fair enough Evo, since you know what country Monique is from is there a Real Estate Lic Board there are well, and with teeth :devil:

Rhody...
 
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  • #27
The contract is ripped up!

:biggrin: I didn't even have to say a thing, the owner took out the contract said that it's ridiculous and was forced by the broker, that it is full of illegalities. Ripped it up and offered to sign a proper version. The owners weren't even aware of the changes that the broker made to the contract.

Conclusion: it was a farce created by the broker. I can go to sleep without worries now :smile:
 
  • #28
:rofl:

Glad to hear it ended well.

At the same time I wonder if you can take a revenge on brokers - report them to authorities or something. Let them sweat :devil:
 
  • #29
Good! :smile:

It restores and strengthens my faith in humanity!
(But not in brokers! :wink:)
 
  • #30
Borek said:
At the same time I wonder if you can take a revenge on brokers - report them to authorities or something. Let them sweat :devil:

I wish, I'll have a look where they can be reported. But I think little can be done, they are profiting from a tight market.

I like Serena said:
It restores and strengthens my faith in humanity!
(But not in brokers! :wink:)

Agreed!
 
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  • #31
:biggrin: Glad it worked out, Get the broker BANNED ! hehe...

Rhody...
 
  • #32
rhody said:
:biggrin: Glad it worked out, Get the broker BANNED ! hehe...

Rhody...

And no GOOBF cards! :approve:
 

1. What is a rent agreement and why is it important?

A rent agreement is a legally binding contract between a landlord and a tenant that outlines the terms and conditions of a rental property. It is important because it protects the rights and responsibilities of both parties and ensures that the rental process is fair and transparent.

2. Can a rent agreement be made invalid?

Yes, a rent agreement can be made invalid if it is found to be in violation of any laws or if it contains false information. It can also be deemed invalid if one party was coerced or misled into signing it.

3. What are some common tricks used to make a rent agreement invalid?

Some common tricks include including illegal clauses, such as prohibiting the tenant from having guests or pets, or charging excessive fees. Another trick is to include false information, such as misrepresenting the condition of the property.

4. How can I ensure that the rent agreement I sign is valid?

To ensure that the rent agreement you sign is valid, it is important to carefully read and understand all of its terms and conditions. You can also consult with a lawyer or a housing rights organization to review the agreement before signing it.

5. What should I do if I suspect that my rent agreement is invalid?

If you suspect that your rent agreement is invalid, you should first try to discuss the issue with your landlord and see if you can come to a resolution. If that does not work, you can seek legal advice and potentially take legal action to have the agreement declared invalid.

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